Would This Defense Be Better?

“the Chiefs were interested in re-signing him, but not for big dollars. Wilkerson signed with Tampa Bay “…… good thing we are 30 million under the cap. Good for you Jimmie, I always thought you were a good player.

It’s becoming clear the Chiefs not to adopt a demanding, physical, offseason program. In that picture, Wilkerson does not even look like the same man!

The biggest surprise of all was the Chiefs letting go of him. He did a fine job here.

Ty Law seemed to be collecting a paycheck, like several other veterans Herm has wanted and that have been signed.

Hard to speculate like that. Players perform differently in different circumstances. Mark Bradley was a castoff from the Bears. Think they might want him back now?

I think the only ones on that list that could help would be Wilkerson and Allen. Even then, I don’t think we would see a dramatic improvement. We need too much help.

*Whoops*

Meant to say: ..the Chiefs need to adopt a demanding, physical, offseason program.

to the above poster, I thought the same thing this season, what with all the injuries (lack of conditioning) and general slowness of everyone. Herm’s the players buddy, and you can’t make your buddies work their butts off – you’re their friend after all.

No it wouldn’t matter if they were here our defense has been bad for 7 plus years so they were once here and it still was bad. The common denominater Gunther Cunningham. Until he’s gone we will never make strides on defense. I don’t understand whats going on with management. We get rid of Mike Solari as offensive coord. rightfully so for running that awful offense after two season. But we continue to keep Gunther after about 7 seasons with the same garbage defense. He’s clearly not maximizing the talents of Derrik Johnson, Demmario Williams,Tamba,Turk, and etc.

Something clear to me about all those guys you mention Bob they go to other teams and play better. Versus when they was here they stunk up the place like the rest of the defense. It bothers me a head coach comes in and get inherited two coordinators both with no track record of success in recent history. We got rid of one. Now its time the organization allow Herm to get rid of the other. He did a good job in bring in Chan and now its time to let the guy pick his own defensive coord. as well.

lets see…Chiefs put in 60 million for the stadium…2 years under the cap at 30 million a year…adds up to mmmm 60 million. Give Carl a contract that runs out after the 60 million is saved…Carl takes it….Hire Herm and his play the youngsters plan is perfect…saves mmmm 60 million..as I see it…its the Hunt’s…and they look pretty smart to me. Did they want to win…sure…did they care if they didn’t…sure…the only sure thing is this plan made the most financial sense. Unless….they lost 18-19 games and the fans give up. What goes around comes around.

BG, don’t forget:

Vonnie Holliday, who has 4 sacks and 35 tackles (23 solo, 12 assist) for the Miami Dolphins.

I don’t care about this stuff.

Herm will take the job at San Diego State and I will follow to coach the aztecs defense.

There are only 2 rules.

1) We will stop the run. To stop the run you take their heart.

2) We take out their QB. To take out their QB you also take their sole.

I will wear my yellow shooting glasses in to the homes of all the top recruits and tell them that if they don’t send their son’s to SDSU instead of USC or some other stupid school i will rip their heads off.

If they don’t send their sons to play at SDSU they will not become tough men capable of growing beards and ripping their shirt sleeves of.

It’s going to be a real hoot.

Just another example of the Front Office’s cluelessness.

How many first round picks have we spent on defense in recent years? How many are still on the team?

After rebuilding that side of the ball and even hiring a coach we thought could improve it, the defense is worse than ever.

Greg Robinson’s horrifying defenses put this one to shame.

Not only are these guys finally in shape with other teams, but has anyone put it together on the rash of injuries this year?

I don’t think Herm taking it easy on the players is paying off. They are not well conditioned.

These guys are well conditioned. No one has been dragging late in games. Injuries is just part of the game nothing you can do about that. Same thing happen to the Giants a few years ago and people accused Coughlin of pushing his players too hard. Injuries just happen you can’t blame Herm for everything.

So ED! You tell us. What is herm responsible for?

Your as good at making excuses as he is, maybe you could hire on as herms personal press secretary.

It has been WIDLY reported on this blog and many other sources that herm has free reign w/his coaching staff.
In other words he can hire/fire at will. So your EXCUSE that herm was “STUCK” with Gun is ridiculous!
Could it be that herm has neither the intestinal fortitude, or the experience/mental capability to fix what ails this team?
Or should we consider that herm is satisfied with the scheme and he has had great input into said scheme, and thus feels as he has stated that it’s the PLAYERS not doing what they are being trained to do??? There for he thinks (remember?! Brownie your doing a heck of a job) Gun is doing a tremendous job as D Coordinator.

There for your whole spew about herm being a victim means NOTHING!

Two things bother me about injuries. 1) the number of hamstrings; 2) Herm saying he didn’t need to look at how they prepare. What?? When you have issues, you take a look. That’s just arrogance. Especially when you seem to have a rash of muscle pulls. That seems to be an indicator of a common problem somewhere in the process. Knees, ankle turns, shoulders, etc. just happen.

Pulled one hammy in my life playing softball the second day of the first tourney of a season after a season off. I was out of shape and dehydrated from a little too much beer the day before. I played three sports in high school including football with nary a pull. In my experience, pulled hamstrings are ALL about flexibility, hydration, and conditioning in that order. The number of pulled muscles indicates to me a problem with physical preparation.

Jim Smith I do not want to sound paranoid but I can see whee you are coming from. Unfortunately everything the chiefs have said or done since the end of last season makes anyone who cares absolutely nuts. There is a arrogance from top to bottom with this organization, they know everything about football and no one else knows anything.

If Gunther is doin so well JohnNDallas explain to me why his defenses has ranked in the bottom of the NFL for the last 7 years he’s been back as defensive coord. Second that report stuff don’t matter. It what it is the guy is getting stuck with Gunther just like Vermeil got stuck with the guy and the same result remains a garbage underperforming defense.

And how can you JohnNDallas honestly defend a guy that has reigned over one of the worst defenses in this decade. We’ve been either last or next to last against the run the last 7 years. Still poor tackling. Other players like Bob mention go to other teams and play better. And you defend Gunther. Thats crap man. IF Herm had been here for 7 seasons having a 4 and 12 record for those 7 season you wouldn’t be sitting here defending him. Say what you want Vermeil nor Herm hasn’t got rid of this guy so the ultimate authority must be long to Carl because after all these seasons of having get his guys like Kendrell Bell and bad defensive seasons he’s still here.

And how can you JohnNDallas honestly defend a guy that has reigned over one of the worst defenses in this decade. We’ve been either last or next to last against the run the last 7 years. Still poor tackling. Other players like Bob mention go to other teams and play better. And you defend Gunther. Thats crap man. IF Herm had been here for 7 seasons having a 4 and 12 record for those 7 season you wouldn’t be sitting here defending him. Say what you want Vermeil nor Herm hasn’t got rid of this guy so the ultimate authority must be long to Carl because after all these seasons of having get his guys like Kendrell Bell and bad defensive seasons he’s still here. Hopefully that will change after this season in dead last again as a defense.

And don’t even think about it Coach Bunting. When i follow herm to sandy eggo state you can not come along. I will coach linebackers too.

and we don’t need know stinking consultants.

Good job of ignoring the FACT that “herm is the decider”.

But I’ll answer your question to me.

I can’t explain it. The only question I have is I don’t think Gun would have adopted a cover II secondary.
I realize that doesn’t explain the D-Lines issues but on the other hand Gun doesn’t coach the D-Line,but imo it falls under his realm of responsibility, just as Gun lays under herms realm.

I have already agreed that Gun is not getting the job done, but for you to blast away at all others excluding herm is….well it makes you sound silly.
You often make intelligent comments and sometimes there even insightful but to wave herms banner without question, leaving him as either a victim/blameless is blind.

ED

I don’t think John was defending Gunther. In fact, I’m quite sure he wasn’t. He was saying that HERM has had the power to get rid of him ever since he got here and he hasn’t done it. I used to be a Gun fan, but the game has passed the old timer by. Herm should have gotten a new D coordinator to go along with his new O coordinator Gailey. (Who admittedly was a stellar hire) He didn’t, and that’s HERM’s fault.

And just for the record, since he was rehired in 2004, this is Gun’s 5th year back with the team, not 7th.

Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.

AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!

I’m not saying Herm is blameless. But If i was a manager of a retail store. And when I came there the store was ran horribly numbers slash profits were bad. And the Dist manager (Peterson) gave me the same asst. managers the last store manager had. Explain to me how am I suppose to turn things around when you giving me the same personel that was here when things were bad before I got here. I have to hire my own asst. mgrs to turn things around. People that are going to do things my way. What I’m saying is he needs to have his own defensive coord. I felt the same with Vermeil. No one should have to inherit someone elses garbage. Gunther is no Monte Kiffin. If the defense was our strength the last 7 years I wouldn’t be putting it on him, but it hasn’t been. Its been our weakness.

All I’m saying all Herm to pick his own defensive coord. just like he was allowed to pick his own offensive coord this season. YOu really think he wanted Mike Solari as an offensive coord. I think not. But Peterson figured to keep somebody around that knew the offense that was ran the year before and they promoted this guy to offensive coord. After they seen he was know Al Saunders he Solari got the boot rightfully so. The same has to happen to the defense.

I said earlier I don’t want no excuses from Herm not to turn things around. And keeping Gunther around would be a huge one. I want him to have every opportunity to succeed and that include him having his own staff and not hand me downs from someone elses staff. And one last thing the Jets ranked 7th and 12th in defense Herm last 2 years with them so he knows a thing or two about defense he just needs to hire his own people to run it.

I too disagree with the statement that you can’t blame Herm for everything. Well, actually you can. He is responsible for all of his coaches and how they do business. If they aren’t getting the job done, it is up to him to step in and do it. That is what a good leader does. Not pass the buck (which I haven’t heard him do). He has plenty of supporters that pass the buck for him though. He just doesn’t seem to be a take charge kind of guy.

YES ED!!!! WE GET IT! you insist that herm is a victim of Peterson, I can relate to that feeling (I feel Gun has been a bit of a victim of herms)

But NO WHERE has any one reported that herm has been shackled to Gun and vice versa.
In fact it has been widely reported that all coaches since Peterson became GM, the head coach has written into their contracts THEY CHOOSE their staff.

Now you can continue to ignore this and babble on about herm being hamstrung by Peterson, but your not convincing anyone except for the one weak mind among the list of most common posters.

I think we all know whom that person is.

heh heh heh

Some people are far too hard on themselves. . . thank goodness Herm is not – he’s the Man! Clark Hunt has said so, and RE-affirmed said.

How is Gunther a victim of HERM? So i guess he was a victim of Vermeil too. Thats why the defense was bad when Vermeil was the head coach. You talk about excuses. The guy just hasn’t been able to get it done as a defensive coord. the last 7 years its know excuse for that. Once again I’m not only defending Herm in this situation but Vermeil as well. How this guy get to hang around like he’s been running one of the best defenses of this decade is unreal to me.

OF course you’re not hearing reports about it head coach have no control over the firing of Gunther because that type of stuff is going to be low key. BUt how else can you explain Vermeil and now Herm has to put up with this guy inability to coach a good defense. If you want to say Herm’s putting the straps on him, then what in the world happen when Vermeil was here.

He has to go plain and simple. If this defense is dead last next year with one of HErm’ s own defensive coord. Then yeah I will be on Herm and the new guy for not getting it done. But I can’t blame Herm mostly for this defense when they giving him the same lousy defensive coord. that the last head coach had.

Out of curiosity, when do the players start sharing responsibility in this debacle of a defense? We wouldn’t know what a pass rush was if we saw it on film at this stage. To me, issues with this defense definately start at the top, but strangely don’t end there…

The problem is herm has drafted some talent that hasn’t panned out..This is mostly injured..Gunther should not be coaching cover two..That is not his forte and strength..Either Gunther coaches defense the way he wants, or Herm hires a coordinator very familiar and comfortable with cover two..Gunther is a tried and true coordinator and coached one of the best defenses in the 90′s so it is just not him..(by the way gunther has a much better record as a head coach than herm edwards hahahaha)

Oh and Herm is the major problem..Bring back Marty or bring in Cowher..I don’t care about winning a superbowl, I want to have a team that can consistently make the playoffs, and we have already seen the way Herm plays in the playoffs..That performance in 2006 wasn’t even worth the playoffs..We we’re embarrassed..By the way everyone loves to point out how vermeil only made the playoffs once but if he we’re our coach now with those records acquired from 2001-2005 we would have made the playoffs three times..

Herm would not have coached a team to the playoffs during those years because our division was incredible back then..Not it’s not good at all..And guess where we’re at? Dead Last..

By bye hermie although I’m sure you will be back next year even if we lost the rest of our games..Grab Marty

For you to only make the playoffs show how low your expectations as a fan are Micheal. I want towin a Super Bowl and not be entertained by one and done in the playoffs.

Anyway message to Herm and Peterson let Gunther go at the end of the season get a defensive coord more familar to running the Tampa 2 defense and one that knows how to use the talent we have on the field. And sign Vilma in the offseason. We need a middle linebacker just as bad as a defensive end. He’ll bring veteran leadership he’s still young and he’s familar with this Cover 2 defense.

Everybody keeps saying fire Gunther a month ago, everybody was saying fire Chan, most of you guys are like leaves in the wind. Every time something bad happens your first reaction is fire somebody. Yes this year sucks b!!!lls, I’m pissed, I want to see Larry busting long runs on prime time television, I love seeing those red jersey’s flying around and swarming to the ball and hitting people in the face. Living in Hawaii it sucks seeing arrowhead empty and quiet on Sundays.

Here are my thoughts:

1)this defense needs desperately a physical leader at the Linebacker position, This defense needs a Leader period. DJ is a great player away from the ball, if they attack him he has problems. B/C he is mostly a finesse linebacker, using speed.

2)How many 1st year starters do we have on defense? Dorsey, Turk, Tank, Flowers, Carr, Pat, With Donnie out most of the time that’s another slot. So six maybe 7 players starting for the 1st time? Thats more than half your defense.

Last time I checked at any level, you can have talent, but experience takes time. This is the NFL, you don’t just replace over half your defense with 1st time starters and expect to just pick up and continue to grow, your taking a step back, that is just not very realistic, add the injuries and its obvious that there isn’t much chemistry on that side of the ball right now.

Yah they are breaking records, not the good kind, but to say its all Gunther’s fault is just hot air in my mind. Personally I think there is no one working harder than he is, and he cares a 100 times more about this team than anyone writing on this board.

I agree some of his personnel decisions have not been great looking back. But keep in mind under vermeil he was looking for players that fit his scheme, and when Herm came in, they shifted to the Cover 2 and that means a change in the type of players your looking for.

All I am saying is I still support him as a coach, in my eyes they blew this team up and this is a new era. I am judging him from this year forward, and I expected this in year 1 of blowing a team up. Fire him and hire who? that is what I what to know

Although Herm and Gunther are defensive minded, they don’t share the same philosiphy. Gunther is an attack attack attack, while Herm wants to hang back and wait for the other team to make a mistake. I just don’t think they mesh.
I think a bigger problem is that our D line coaching is sorely lacking. We don’t see any development at all. The secondary has taken some steps, and I love our 2 rookie cbs so I can’t complain there, but we need to address several areas within the coaching staff, starting with Gun and moving down.
Lets just pray Carl is gone by the end of the season and we end up with a real GM that isn’t ego driven….. like NE’s Peloi!!

Hawaiian chief you made a lot of sense but you would still have jack stedman and Hank Stram coaching because who would you get that was better. There are a 100 head coach types waiting and DC is a dime a dozen.
I feel the real test is “is there any improvement?”. Offense is living on fitting it to the QB, I am not sure that is improvement in the long run but better than nothing for this one year. Defense has improved at CB but nothing else. All those draft picks on the DL need to be answered for expecially since they do little correctly if at all. Special teams need crazy guys and no one except for maybe McGraw is extending themselves.

The chiefs organization has said rebuilding would be painful. Sunday carl said it is hard to win with so many young players, who chose to rebuild this way? herm never takes the blame for anything and today is quoted that there is progress (maybe if you give him credit fot getting the players on the field without straining something). Poor Gunther is just out of his depth. Lastly the owner is disinterested to say the least.

I for one never said fire Chan. I knew it would take time for him to get the offense going with all the changes at quarterback and running back. Defensive coord. is different story. His firing is long overdue kind of like Matt Millen was. You can’t justify having a bottom of the barrell defense for 7 years. I don’t know how anyone even defends that. Thats almost a decade of being a defensive coord. of a horrible defense. Thats unheard of to keep a guy around like that for that long period of time.

Its time for Herm to get a guy that understands his scheme and can have better usage of guys like Derrick Johnson. True we have personel issues at defensive end and middle linebacker, but we also have issues with Gunther as DC. Time for a change

Am I the only one who actually knows when Gunther was hired? It was 2004. How in the world is that “7 years”?

Also, although not great, the defense was middle of the pack in 05-06. Far from “worst in the NFL”. There was improvement, but now great regression.

thanks uncuffed, I was wondering where the 7 years came from myself. Yes we have never provided a top 10 defense, but we have never really been in the bottom half either we have been average for the most part.

I give gunther 1 more year, on the premise that when they blew this team up, that set everything back for the team, and everything they were trying to build for the first 2 years of herms tenure. Yes you can talk all day about the progress of individual draft choices, and how everybody and their mom is a bust.

But talk to anybody that knows and they will say you judge a draft in years 3 & 4, not 1 & 2 which most of the defense is in right now. Chemistry takes time, and they were not able to fill all their voids in this 1 draft.

This is a process; stay pissed, and passionate…..But calling for Gunther’s head is not going to help this team right now or in the near future.

Ok so the last 4 years sorry Gun I gave you credit for some of Greg mess. Here’s the deal from 2004 up to now Gun defense has ranked 31st 25th 16th 13th, and 32nd currently. So mediocre at best. Still doesn’t justify keeping him around. Its obvious this guy doesn’t know how to maximize the talent on this roster starting with Derrick Johnson. Say what you want but the defense has been an liability from most of Gunther’s reign as defensive coord. ITs time we turn the page. He hasn’t been able to prove he can have a top rank defense consistently since being from up under Marty.

Similar to how Mike Martz hasn’t proved he could have an successful offense since being from up under Vermeil. Its time to turn the page.

I stand corrected he’s 30th in defense currently thanks to Rams and Lions.

Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.

AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!