What Didn’t Get Done … Friday Cup O’Chiefs

From America’s Highways & Byways

There was a lot that got done with the Chiefs during the last six months.

But then, there was a lot to do.

And the new regime of Scott Pioli/Todd Haley has not solved all the problems, plugged all the holes or gotten every questioned answered.

There are some things that didn’t get done.  Here’s the top five.


There’s no question that Waters is one of the team’s best players. Now, that may be damning him with faint praise given the team is 6-26 over the last two years, but other than Larry Johnson, he’s the only returning Chiefs player who has sniffed the Pro Bowl.

Most people consider Waters one of the team’s leaders. Now again, that’s a tainted label given the fact the team has performed so poorly in recent years. The media likes to label Waters a leader, but that’s because the guard is always approachable and always willing to talk. If he’s as much a leader as everyone thinks, then he needs to start doing a better job of leading.

No matter what happened between Waters and Haley in their now famous hallway conversation back in February, that situation should be history. It appears it is not from Waters perspective. His only appearance was for the mandatory mini-camp, when missing would have lead to a fine. He showed up and was out of shape compared to his teammates. There was still pout in his demeanor.

It’s going to be very interesting to see what type of shape Waters is when he arrives in Wisconsin. It’s going to take him a lot of work over the next six weeks to get his conditioning to the level that Haley is looking for from his players.

That Waters decided to make himself an outsider during this off-season is a disappointment. Thankfully for the Chiefs, there was Mike Goff. He’s a year older and has played two more seasons in the league than Waters, but Goff was at every single off-season practice. Haley said the team honored Goff in one of their final meetings for his efforts during the last three months.

Goff has played in seven games in the playoffs over the last four years with the Chargers, who won three of those seven. In the same time frame, Waters played in one post-season game and did not get a victory.

If there was something for Goff to accomplish with this team during the last three months, there was certainly something for Waters to get done in this off-season.


Pioli/Haley believe in actions, not words. So forget Vrabel’s words during his brief appearance with the team, specifically his comments that he was happy to be with the Chiefs.

Go by Vrabel’s actions and his absence from all the non-mandatory work with the team says he’s not thrilled by his change of address. That has to be a disappointment, especially for Pioli. Getting Vrabel at this point of his career isn’t so much about production in the defense. It’s about him bringing the Patriots Way to the club. Vrabel was one of the poster boys for the way Belichick built those Super Bowl teams.

He’s smart, he’s durable, he’s versatile and he’s a leader, or was. Certainly, he can still bring those features to the Chiefs. But the fact it hasn’t happened during this off-season is a hole in the Chiefs picture.


When a team sets a new NFL record for pass rushing futility, it would figure that would be an area where a lot of attention, bodies and money would land in the off-season.

That hasn’t been the case with the ’09 Chiefs. There have been veteran pass rushers available and they did not land in Kansas City. The most recent example is DE/OLB Greg Ellis, released by Dallas who signed with Oakland.

It appears that Pioli/Haley believe a change in scheme will bring more pressure on the quarterback. If what was seen in mini-camp and OTA sessions is how the Chiefs are going to rush the passer, then they are going to rely heavily on the blitz.

Defenses that live by the blitz will eventually die by the blitz. The Chiefs need somebody to step up their game and get the quarterback on the ground.


Haley makes it very plain that special teams are going to be important to him and the ’09 Chiefs. But as the summer vacation started, they don’t appear to be any closer to identifying a solid return man than they were when Haley and the staff first walked into the building.

In the public portions of practices, very little was done in the area of punt or kick returns. The one time they did work on catching punts, rookie Quentin Lawrence struggled to hold onto the football. Haley will stress ball security on special teams and he’s not going to give a fumbler a second chance.

First-year guy Rodney Wright has also been back returning kicks and punts, but his experience in that area comes from Arena Football over the last five years. RBs Jamaal Charles and Dantrell Savage handled some kickoffs last year as rookies; in fact Savage had the team’s longest kick return at 59 yards.

Again, there were returners available in free agency, but the Chiefs kept their hands in their pockets. The job is wide open.


The plus/minus scale for the Chiefs offensively did not balance out in this off-season. On the minus side is TE Tony Gonzalez, traded to Atlanta and taking with him about 20 percent of the passing game over the last few years. On the plus side would be 36-year old, 14-year receiver Bobby Engram. He’s a possession/slot receiver at the end of his career.

Whether it was at tight end, wide receiver, or in the backfield, the Chiefs needed to add another weapon for Cassel to work with. It didn’t happen and that could have season-long consequences.

As proven and consistent NFL receivers, the Chiefs offense has WRs Engram and Dwayne Bowe. That’s it. WR Mark Bradley has shown flashes, but he’s not consistent and is often injured. WR Devard Darling seems to have the skills, but has never been given the opportunities. WRs Jeff Webb and Terrance Copper are journeymen types.

Cassel is going to need top notch protection because there are not many receivers available who can create plays with their speed, quickness or moves.


The agreement between the Chiefs and Missouri Western University in St. Joseph for training camp is finally done and moving forward.

Last minute political histrionics by Missouri Governor Jay Nixon and his minions slowed the process down, but ultimately they stepped aside and the tax credits needed to get Missouri Western up to standard to hold an NFL training camp were approved and documents have been signed.

The Chiefs agreed to hold camp at Missouri Western for five years and agreed to hold training camp in the state of Missouri for 10 years. Those were pledges made during negotiations with the state months ago. The Chiefs agreed to nothing new in this deal.

Now that the money is set the next question to be answered is whether Missouri Western can get facilities constructed in time to hold training camp there in 2010. There’s a lot of work for the school to do in a very short period of time.

Eventually, Chiefs training camp will land in St. Joe. Whether that happens next year remains to be seen.

In late July, the Chiefs will go back to River Falls, Wisconsin for the 2009 training camp.


Although it didn’t include already assigned players or quarterbacks, the United Football League held a draft on Thursday night. Whether they wanted to do it secretly or under cover we don’t know, but there was little or no pre-hype on this event.

The UFL’s four teams picked players over 24 rounds, all of it done by phone and computer.

Among the players selected that Chiefs fans will remember are LB Gary Stills (Las Vegas),  WR-KR B.J. Sams (San Francisco), FB Ronnie Cruz (Orlando) and S Oliver Celestin (New York).


NFL – suspended Cleveland Browns WR Donte Stallworth indefinitely and without pay after he pleaded guilty to drunk driving charges in the case where he struck and killed a man in Miami.

BENGALS – signed seventh-round draft choice WR Freddie Brown.

BRONCOS – released S Herana-Daze Jones, CB Rashod Moulton and RB Kestahn Moore.

DOLPHINS – signed sixth-round draft choice OT Andrew Gardner.

EAGLES – fired assistant secondary coach Otis Smith.

JAGUARS – claimed LS Jeremy Cain on waivers (Redskins).

RAVENS – signed fifth-round draft choices LB Jason Phillips and TE Davon Drew, sixth-round choice RB Cedric Peerman and LB Tony Fein; released DB Anwar Phillips, DB David Jones, QB Drew Willy and DE Luis Vasquez.

STEELERS – agreed to terms with third-round draft choice WR Mike Wallace and sixth-round draft choices DL Sonny Harris and C A.Q. Shipley; released DE Jeff Bradley, WR Jayson Foster, FB Ryan Powdrell, WR Cedric Goodman, LS Mark Estermyer and QB Kevin McCabe.


Born on June 19, 1976 in New Orleans was CB Patrick Surtain. He joined the Chiefs for the 2005 season and played four seasons at Arrowhead (2005-08). He appeared in 55 games with the Chiefs, starting 49 games. Surtain had eight interceptions. Before coming to the Chiefs, he played seven seasons in Miami.

Born on June 19, 1981 in Westwood, New Jersey was OT Kevin Sampson. He was a seventh-round choice in the 2004 NFL Draft out of Syracuse. Sampson played in 16 games with seven starts over three seasons with the Chiefs (2004-06).

62 Responses to “What Didn’t Get Done … Friday Cup O’Chiefs”

  • June 19, 2009  - Scott says:

    It is simply amazing to me that Donte Stallworth got 30 days in jail…30 FREAKING DAYS!!! for driving drunk, running over a man and killing him. Sad that the penalty handed down by the NFL is harsher than the penalty given by our judicial system.

  • June 19, 2009  - ILChiefsFan says:


    There’s plenty of precedent for that (Leonard Little, for example). The sad fact is that this type of offense often isn’t taken very seriously.

  • June 19, 2009  - tm1946 says:

    Just a solid article, probably because I agree with it. Re-read it and you might get a feeling of what the 09 season may look like. A rebuild on a rebuild who’s chance of success depends on players who we do not know or have shown as dependable. Did you notice that draft picks were not mentioned as difference makers?? Dislike looking backwards but the last three years will be considered three huge steps backwards, that plan just does not compliment this plan. Many young players will be expendable because they just do not match with current needs. That sets back the playoff years, Pioli/Haley have tons of money but apparently do not like what is available and the draft seems “safe” and opposed to dynamic.

  • June 19, 2009  - Jack Danials says:

    Check the details of what happened at the occurance of the Stallworth’s accident.
    Also what he did for the family that remained.
    As a matter of fact there should be an appeal comming,with the NFL.

  • June 19, 2009  - ILChiefsFan says:

    The defense will definitely be a work in progress this season. I think getting better against the run is even more important than improving the pass rush. As we’ve seen, 1st-year defensive linemen are rarely high-impact players, so hopefully coaching and a different scheme will make our current “veteran” DL more effective.

    One thing I’d say about “live by the blitz…die by the blitz”: the Chiefs have the corners to support a blitzing D. The big problem is the linebackers and, to a lesser extent, the safeties. Football Outsiders published a very interesting analysis of last season that showed the Chiefs defense gave up most of their passing yards against RB’s, TE’s, and #3 WR’s. They were pretty successful against #1/#2 WR’s.

    One other thing I’d say about blitzing: don’t tell the Philadelphia Eagles it’s not effective.

  • June 19, 2009  - ILChiefsFan says:

    Jack Danials,

    You’ve got a good point. For the most part, Stallworth stood up and took responsibility responsbility for what he did. (However, his defense was getting ready to argue that the fact that the victim was jaywalking was a mitigating factor).

  • June 19, 2009  - Rip 'em a new one says:

    Unsaid, but something to hold onto going into the 2009 season is the presence of new leadership blood in the front office and the head coaching position. Think about Haley, for example.

    He landed in AZ, a franchise with a storied history of ineptness, and found a way to help get them to the Superbowl. Pioli has been there numerous times.

    There’s going to be some real heavy lifting over this coming season but the results of that effort might not be seen for another year or two.

  • June 19, 2009  - devildog 1976 says:

    I think that the right 53, (22) awaits us on the roster of 85. The pieces to the TEAM are there Haley will find which one goes where. This list of what did not get done is only a list of goals to finish. There are six weeks before camp starts, then camp, and then cuts. All of the teams will cut and there will be a treasure in the discard pile. Waters is maybe in our discard pile, with Goff on board. Vrabel is maybe in the same discard pile, and Zach T. is the reason we don’t blink. Mr P. and Haley have said all along that the right 53 are the ones who really want to be here, and then earn the right to be here. Goff and Thomas both fill the bill. I truly believe the mind set is more important than the “names” on the roster right now. How many times has “name here” done well in one system and gone to another to not fill their hopes? We will end up with 53 good determined athletes and find where they can play best, and we will have a better season than expected.
    It is all about the TEAM……….and……….

    The Right 53 (22)………..with attitude.

    In the Coach I trust.

  • June 19, 2009  - azchieffn says:

    Hey Rip-em, not so sure it was Haley. Being here in the AZ,Ken Whisenhunt was who change the losing habits of the Cards. I hope you’re right.

  • June 19, 2009  - Scott says:

    Jack Danials ,

    So I can get hammered, get behind the wheel, run over a guy and kill him…and as long as I THEN “do the right thing”, all I deserve is 30 days in jail? Oh yeah…and throw some $$$ at the guy’s family, of course. That’s Bullsh*t…and way you cut it. Nothing anyone can say is gonna’ change my mind on that.

    Sorry for the non-Chiefs rant, guys. But that whole deal just hits me wrong. Big time.

  • June 19, 2009  - SG says:

    “As a matter of fact there should be an appeal comming,with the NFL.”

    I checked the facts – and here’s what I found out…As a matter of fact, Donte – who I rooted for when he was with New Orleans – drove while intoxicated…the construction worker that he hit with his car while driving intoxicated is no longer living. The construction worker cannot be replaced – an event that occurred because of unfortunate decisions that Donte made which are very illegal (for this very reason) – and no action by Donte can ever give that back. It is encouraging to see the man had a conscience and stepped up after his poor decision. However, the judgment that was handed down by the court system has some very serious problems.

    I challenge any attorney, judge, or level-minded lady or fellow to explain how a 30-day jail sentence will EVER…EVER…encourage a college football player…who thinks they’re God…that there’s a severe consequence to their violation of law (hence they should be responsible in their drinking decisions). I’m all about forgiving the sins of sinners, etc. but this precedent set by our legal community is by very nature Un-just and simply irresponsible at every level.

    If Roger Goodell did not toss him out on his john-jacob-jingle-heimer-schmidt for an indefinite period of time…the NFL would be participants in this very same hypocrisy.

  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:

    Well said, SG!

    God forgives, but man must regulate the laws which God has given to govern. We would be neglecting due dilligence if we allowed just a slap on the wrist to suffice for the taking of a human life, accidental or otherwise.

  • June 19, 2009  - ILChiefsFan says:

    The problem I have with they way the justice system treats DUI can be summed up in one word: INTENT.

    When you you get behind the wheel knowingly drunk you’ve already committed the intentional part of the crime (to the extent there can be intent when your judgement is impaired by alcohol). Hitting someone is the UNintentional part. Yet the penalty for DUI when no injury is involved is often a slap on the wrist.

    The problem with saying that Stallworth’s penalty should be more severe to discourage people from driving while intoxicated is that few people in a position to drive drunk are going to consider that they might kill somebody. On the other hand, they might give some thought to the idea that they could be pulled over.

    It seems to me the answer is stiffer penalties for DUI.

  • June 19, 2009  - SG says:

    “Mr P. and Haley have said all along that the right 53 are the ones who really want to be here, and then earn the right to be here.”

    Strong presentation. One interesting thing that I’ve noted here and other places (the “mothership” among others) is the slight “change in tune” from Haley regarding BW. Somehow I believe that BW will be in that Right 53. It’s nice when coaches and players set egos aside for the benefit of the team.

  • June 19, 2009  - Blazer383 says:

    The question regarding Dante is whether or not alcohol was the deciding factor in the accident. Accounts that I’ve read indicate that the person walked/ran out in front of him. I am in no way defending driving while under the influence, but his alcohol consumption alone doesn’t seem to be the cause of this incident. Apparently the prosecutors and the family of the deceased agreed, or he wouldn’t have gotten off with a plea bargain.

  • June 19, 2009  - SG says:

    “…that few people in a position to drive drunk are going to consider that they might kill somebody.” “It seems to me the answer is stiffer penalties for DUI.”

    Your point is good. The needed answer is ultimately a culture change. If my kid commits a crime that causes a consequence (DWI, abuse, rape, drug use, or some other thing), let’s cut them a break. If my team’s favorite player commits a crime that causes a consequence, let’s cut them a break too. But if the guy across town whose kid is a different skin color or different economic class commits a crime (whether it’s same crime or a different one) – throw the book at them. Or if it’s the crime I have a weakness in, that should be treated more mercifully than the one the next guy across town struggles with. ‘Aww man – you’re just being harsh.’ Am I? If you choose an adult activity but don’t act like an adult, should I not call you into account? If you own a firearm in your home and your kid shoots mine by accident because you didn’t lock it up, should I remain silent and say that you shouldn’t be called into account for it – even though I’m paying thousands in medical bills (if I’m lucky)?

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    The right 53 = any 22 will do; ‘check’ that – the Emporer has no clothes on.

    “Any 22 will do” huh? We’ll see…based on how many of Herm’s Chiefs remain on the 53 man, IR and/or DV lists.

    Me thinks ‘check’ will be proven (even more) of a fraud than he has already for Rin notes with much glee that some 80% of the players on KC last year are still on the team; and that number -some 80%- is precisely what Herm referenced as to how much of the team was already in place … just as the new not so dynamic duo has discovered. Rub their noses in it Herm!

    heh heh heh


    And Bob G, your reference to Waters “If he’s as much a leader as everyone thinks, then he needs to start doing a better job of leading.”

    - Tony

    “That Waters decided to make himself an outsider during this off-season is a disappointment.”

    - Gonzalez

    He was never a regular off-season participant… he whined to be traded in season… he pouted… and then he got his wish nee demand met by being traded; the difference is Waters did whine for a trade in season.

    So evidence is a player can get what they want… best of luck to Brian Waters in his quest abandon this sinking vessel known as ‘search’ & ‘check’s 2009 Chiefs.

    So in this, appears Waters is much better than the ballyhooed former Chiefs TE Gonzalez – 2nd best team history behind the great Fred Arbanas.

    If Goff is legend because of his materialization at OTA’s and Waters is foul for not what then of a Gonzalez & all his machinations? You’re better than that Bob G; get some Cosell in ya…tell it like it ‘really’ is.

    And IMO you treaded a bit too lightly around the Vrabel situation…in that it can be argued that it’s even ‘more’ important for Vrabel to be here than Waters because- as you said- he’s supposedly bringing the Patriot way in the flesh…alas his body must not have gotten the message, least his conscience. Allow Rin fix said via throwing some hardball at the situation in lieu of a softball.

    Vrabel’s absence? Rin is reminded of the old Wolf Brand Chili television commercial – which I in my Masterful way shall make paraphrase as codolences to ‘search’ pioli’s current post in life:

    “How longs has it been since you’ve had a big, heaping bowl of egg on the face? Well – that’s too long!”

    heh heh heh


  • June 19, 2009  - jimbo says:

    Scott & SG kudos, well said…

    devildog 1976 I like your optimism…

    Bob, I was thinking yesterday about what you might say today concerning what did’nt get done in the OTA’s. I expected a bleeker synopsis. You did’nt even make me cringe.
    Look, we all know the Chiefs are a big question mark this year. Between the youth movement, new defensive schemes & coaches, moving players around, who’s happy, who’s not, who to keep, which FA to sign etc… etc…etc… It scares the bejesus out of me. But, I’ve also noticed that change can be both exciting & disapointing.
    Which leads me to this conclusion. Watching the Chiefs this year will not be boring. No sir, Win, Lose, whatever. I will be entertained… Is’nt that what this is all about? Being entertained…
    In that respect, you can count on this years Chiefs to deliver.

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    Typo Addendum: “Gonzalez whined in season, Waters did not.”


  • June 19, 2009  - SG says:

    “…but his alcohol consumption alone doesn’t seem to be the cause of this incident. Apparently the prosecutors and the family of the deceased agreed, or he wouldn’t have gotten off with a plea bargain.”

    A consideration that definitely should not be ignored in the court of public opinion.

  • June 19, 2009  - jimbo says:

    Rin, I also remember the great Freddie Arbanas. He was tough & talented. But…
    Let’s be serious. Tony G. is second to no one.

  • June 19, 2009  - tm1946 says:

    Right, jimbo. Arbanas was a special Chief, attitude, desire, or whatever you call IT. He had IT. Tony is of a different era. More about me than team, that is just the way it is. Tony was a great Chief, Arbanas is a Great Chief.

  • June 19, 2009  - True Red & Gold says:

    Hey Rin.

    “Emperor” is spelled with one “O”, not two.

  • June 19, 2009  - alex k says:

    Ok, Bob did NOT tread around the vrabel situation, he skipped because of the union, plain and simple, waters skipped, showed in bad shape with a bad attitude, body language and all.

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    True Red and Gold says:

    “Hey Rin.”



    -Thank you for the adulation, but Rin will suffice. Now, back to what you were saying about your intelligence, you said it had what now?

    “One “O” and not two.”

    -And that’s it? No other numbers, right? Just as Rin suspected. You are a moron.

    Heh Heh Heh


  • June 19, 2009  - SG says:

    Rin brought up an interesting discussion topic…who are the top 10 Chiefs in this decade? what about the top 10 Chiefs/Texans in the 60′s? what about top 10 Chiefs/Texans all time?

    Can we get Bob Gretz to publish the results?

  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:

    This sounds fun, I’m game.

    Top ten this decade, in descending order:

    10. Dante Hall
    9. Larry Johnson
    8. Jared Allen
    7. Jerome Woods
    6. Willie Roaf
    5. Will Shields
    4. Eddie Kennison
    3. Trent Green
    2. Priest Holmes
    1. Tony Gonzalez

    In the 1960′s, I would say:

    10. Sherrill Hedrick
    9. Cotton Davidson
    8. Abner Haynes
    7. EJ Holub
    6. Fred Arbabas
    5. Buck Buchanan
    4. Bobby Bell
    3. Willie Lanier
    2. Len Dawson
    1. Otis Taylor

    All time I would say the following:

    10. Abner Haynes
    9. Ed Podalak
    7. Fred Arbanas
    6. Buck Buchanan
    5. Willie Lanier
    4. Len Dawson
    3. Derrick Thomas
    2. Tony Gonazalez
    1. Otis Taylor

    And my personal top 10, based solely on the guys I loved, not necessarily on talent or production:

    10. Christian Okoye
    9. Priest Holmes
    8. Trent Green
    7. Steve DeBerg
    6. Derrick Thomas
    5. Willie Davis
    4. Mike Livingston
    3. Tony Gonzalez
    2. Marcus Allen
    1. Albert Lewis/Deron Cherry

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    jimbo says


    - yes, what is it now?

    “I also remember the great Freddie Arbanas”

    - anyone who saw him play couldst not but remember…

    “He was tough & talented.”

    - the toughest, the most talented TE in Chiefs history…


    - cue Pee Wee Herman: “Everybody’s got a big but…”

    “Let’s be serious.”

    - cue a serious face > :-[

    “Tony G. is second to no one.”

    - he is second to Arbanas on the Chiefs & is also second to such formers as Ditka, Mackey & Sanders – at minimum. Those gents played in an era when passing the football was not the lark nee walk in the park it is today and has been for these last some 30 years since the advent rules changes et al to benefit offenses.


  • June 19, 2009  - ILChiefsFan says:

    Wow; great lists, Josh. I especially like your personal #1. That whole secondary was awesome to watch.

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    True Red & Gold says

    “Hey Rin”

    - yes, what is it now ‘fake’ True Red & Gold?

    “Emperor” is spelled with one “O”, not two.”

    - exactly – which is why I spelled it as such. And your point 9other than that one atop your head?)


  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    ‘Fake’ Rin Tin Tin post that came after alex k:

    Cue yet another Elton John paraphrase: “Green eyes…fake Rin’s got, green eyes.”

    heh heh heh


  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    SG says


    - yes, what is it now?

    “brought up an interesting discussion topic”

    - it’s a habit of mine – unlike the points ‘fake’ Rin’s wear atop their pates…

    “who are the top 10 Chiefs in this decade?”

    - I don’t care…none are worth mentioning in the same sentence nee breath as those from the 1960s.

    “what about the top 10 Chiefs/Texans in the 60′s?”

    - now you’re talkin!

    “what about top 10 Chiefs/Texans all time?”

    - ditto!

    “Can we get Bob Gretz to publish the results?”

    - it’s not Rin’s turn to watch Bob G today, so He that is I Rin couldn’t say…


  • June 19, 2009  - True Red & Gold says:

    Rin, check your post again:

    “The right 53 = any 22 will do; “˜check’ that – the Emporer has no clothes on”

    Proofread, before flying off the handle, oh King of Crap.

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:


    Any such ‘poll’ is subjective & completely bias-based…there is just no other way to honestly describe said. That human beings – any/all – to include the NFL’s Hall of Fame voters cannot even agree be proof enough.

    Too, coaches, players, voters, writers, fans etc. are no different or better. The Pro Bowel as the MLB All Star voting are two more examples of any integrity gone south.

    That said here are Rin’s All Time Chiefs, order of ‘greatness’ if you will which is a catch-all really for a many splendored descript of who was most important to the team, based on a position and their impact. I will keep it to a Top 5-10 list or otherwise wouldst be here typing until Chiefs fire ‘check’ & ‘search’ before the 2010 season.

    Note that some of the guys Rin ranks higher than their NFL HOF teammates due to the non-HOFers having been slighted to date by their omission from Canton:

    TOP 5

    QB Dawson
    DT Buchanan
    LB Bell
    WR Taylor
    OT Tyrer / FS Robinson (TIE)

    NEXT 5

    PK Stenerud
    CB Thomas / OG Budde (TIE)
    P Wilson
    TE Arbanas
    DE Mays / LB & C Holub

    Best at each position might be a better idea SG: all time Chiefs 1960-2009 include -

    QB Dawson
    WR Taylor / HM: Carson/Marshall
    WR Burford / Paige (TIE)
    TE Arbanas / HM: Gonzalez
    OT Tyrer / HM: Roaf
    OT Hill
    OG Budde
    OG Shields / HM: Moorman
    C Rudnay
    HB Holmes / HM: Garrett
    FB McClinton / HM: Richardson

    PK Stenerud / HM: Lowery
    P Wilson
    KR Noland ‘Supergnat’ Smith / HM: Hall

    DE Mays / HM: Still
    DE Brown /
    DT Buchanan
    DT Culp / HM: Maas
    LB Lynch / HM: Thomas
    LB Lanier / HM: Headrick
    LB Bell
    CB Thomas / HM: Ross
    FS Robinson / HM: Cherry
    SS Kearney
    CB Lewis / HM: Marsalis

    Coach Hank Stram / HM: Herm Edwards


  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    True Red & Gold said:

    Hey Rin. “Emperor” is spelled with one “O”, not two.

    Rin said: “exactly – which is why I spelled it as such.”

    Still having trouble nee can’t read between those lines? Allow Rin to help you knave: Rin writes as He pleases – for Himself.

    He has said this many times afore; if Rin wanted to write as the common rabble do – i.e., you and the rest – wouldst He do so. That is the ‘point’ you miss – yet again – ‘when’ & ‘how’ Rin scribes it, it be nee becomes the proper.

    Rin is not common and knows naught rabble…leave that to the little people…don’t you know.

    Go now, and sin no more…


  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:


    I didn’t see Elmo Wright on your list. No love for “touchdown dance innovator”?

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    ‘Fake’ Rin #1 aka Josh says:


    - yes, what is it now?

    “I didn’t see Elmo Wright on your list.”

    - the Lasik appears to have been a success…

    “No love for “touchdown dance innovator”?”

    - Elmo Wright was a zero…he scored 6 TDS in 4 years with the Chiefs, and he scored 0 more TDS in another season with two other teams (3 of his KC TDs came as a rookie in 1971.)

    He is one of the biggest busts in Chiefs history – perhaps only a Trezelle Jenkins or Gene Trosch is truly more deserving (course we musn’t forget Ryan Sims and some of his DL brethren these last few annums nee half decade or so.)

    Wright had little speed, little heart and far too little talent to ply a ‘dance’ more than he did. He was drafted to ‘replace’ Otis Taylor – as such how’d he do in your opinion, ‘fake’ Rin?

    I could tell you some things about Elmo (as some other Chiefs thence that may have impacted their performance) but will not of course in deference to good taste, & not being accused of slandering the journeyman types that have passed thru KC… again, you understand ‘fake’ Rin.


  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:

    I mentioned him mostly as a joke…I wanted to see what sort of reaction it would arouse…from the All-Knowing King of Chiefs Rosters.

    I tend to agree with you on the matter of Wright, #17. He could best be described as a “one year wonder” and more accurately labeled, as you put it, a “bust”.

    I’m curious-as to your opinion (stop drooling!) on the late Joe Delaney. Most Chiefs fans hold a place in their heart for him, due to the heroic way he passed. My question is this: do you think he would have amounted to much if he had lived or would he have been an afterhthought in the annals that are “The Mediocrity of the 1980′s Kansas City Chiefs”?

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    As for ‘innovators’ of TD dances and other prima donnas nee spasm machinators, Wright was not the first nor sadly was he the last.

    1960′s WR Charley Taylor of the WASH Redskins was a hotdog dripping with mustard choosing to ‘pose’ aft every TD he scored; later Billy ‘White Shoes’ Johnson brought his low IQ into the discussion… Icky ‘Shuffle’ Woods and his RLS; the ‘Fun Bunch’ in Washington… vomit bag please.

    Still, I believe it was former (thence) NYG Homer Jones was the first attributed ‘spiker’ a ball in the endzone aft scoring a TD, about 1965; that he chose to do against a non-descript opponent was a good thing for he – had he chose to do so in the vicinity of a Nitschke or Butkus would his career have died on the spot rather than merely tailing off severely as it did of its own accord.

    Otis Taylor threw a ball into the stands in DEN in 1966 vs the Broncos after scoring a TD, this before $aving tacks such as nets for FGs and too other deterrents to I-sm were implemented (fines for unsportsmanlike conduct, team fines like OT got from Hank for throwing that ball into the stands, etc.)

    It just grew and grew until we have the morass we have today (though to the NFL’s credit they are doing their best appears to get the showboaters attention$.)

    Tony Gonzalez and his sissy goal post dunk, Chris Johnson of the Titans & his endzone drumming- one no better than the other, in my purview.

    That football is not ‘that’ type of entertainment such as Johnson’s/others and that the NFL agrees with Rin pleases He to no end.

    Oh, and while were at it: those folks who stand up at Arrowhead and block others view: they have heard the wrath of Rin more than once afore, and shall continue to whenever Rin is in the house!

    DOWN IN FRONT! Akak, sitdownorelseiwillsityoudown.


  • June 19, 2009  - Jody says:

    Rin likes gin.

  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:


    Thanks! Yeah, there I wanted to put Kevin “The Rock” Ross on that list too, but you have to cut off somewhere!

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    Josh says

    “I mentioned him mostly as a joke”

    - laugh? Rin thought He’d die!

    “I wanted to see what sort of reaction it would arouse rom the All-Knowing King of Chiefs Rosters.”

    - I trust you had your shades drawn & had ample cleanup materials on hand…

    “I tend to agree with you on the matter of Wright, #17. He could best be described as a “one year wonder” and more accurately labeled, as you put it, a “bust”.”

    - uh huh…

    “I’m curious-as to your opinion”

    - what have you to offer Rin for said – your life or your ‘fake’ Rin termination papers? Or you can just stop drooling…which of those three will it be?

    “(stop drooling!)”

    - fine… continue.

    “on the late Joe Delaney.”

    - yes, what about him?

    “Most Chiefs fans hold a place in their heart for him, due to the heroic way he passed. My question is this: do you think he would have amounted to much if he had lived or would he have been an afterhthought in the annals that are “The Mediocrity of the 1980′s Kansas City Chiefs”?”

    - he had a detached retina or two as I recall, and his second season was but a shadow of his first…then tragically he passed away.

    Who can say what might have been…no less than NFL Hall of Fame DE Elvin Bethea (among others) said of Delaney after Joe torched HOU’s Oilers for 193 yards in a 1981 game (which set a then Chiefs record by besting Mike Garrett’s 192 set 154 years earlier):

    Bethea -

    “I’ve played against the best”“O.J. Simpson, Gale Sayers, Walter Payton and (Delaney) ranks right up there with them. He is great with a capital G.”

    I think (injury aside) his speed would have kept him in good stead a few years – but the pounding would have taken its toll on his less than 190 lb body (even Okoye slowed down noticeably from his first couple of seasons after he got hit so often & carried so many times – ditto for Larry Johnson
    People may not remember how fast Okoye was – very fast as a rookie – he broke off a 43 yard TD run against SD on a cutback to the right side of the Chiefs offensive line where he just exploded down the field.)

    My best guess Delaney would have been in the same Garrett and Haynes RB discussion, not as good as Holmes but on par with Okoye, Podolak, Allen etc.

    I still recall the game Delaney went 81 yards for a TD against DEN – he had another 70 yard TD run called back in that game by a phantom penalty – so maybe just maybe Joe would have been another Gale Sayers.

    We shall e’er & always wonder as we wander…


  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    Jody says


    - yes, what is it now?

    “likes gin.”

    - no, Rin is more of a ‘Liquor’ in the front & a ‘Poker’ in the rear man- appears that you be the ‘rummy’ as twere…


  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:

    Indeed we shall. Of course, it’s not as though a lone RB could shoulder the weight of an entire franchise. The QB’s of the era (Fuller, Kenney)were not of the same cloth as it is speculated that Delaney was. Although Fuller was a hell of a rapper for the ChiBears in 1985. :)

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    Yes, Mike Garrett came before Joe Delaney…just not 154 years afore him. It should have read “14 years before.” (1967)

    hee, tee hee


  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:


    - speaking of busts…luck nee fate nee timing has as much to do with life as anything. As the French/Romanian Cioran has said: “I’m (life) is just an accident- why take it all so seriously?”

    As regards Steve Fuller, former 49ers Head Coach Bill Walsh said he would’ve drafted Fuller with the Niners’ #1 pick in ’79…as the Chiefs took Fuller ahead of SF, Walsh ended up settling for some slob named Joe Montana in round #3… fate.

    And accompli? That came again to roost (albeit not in KC) 4 years after when QB Blackledge was selected by the Chiefs & MIA ‘settled’ for a QB named…Dan Marino, end of round #1.

    Somebody ‘up there’ just didn’t like the Chiefs…


  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:

    “Somebody ‘up there’ just didn’t like the Chiefs…”

    Oft, I’m convinced he still doesn’t!


  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    Agreed – ‘search’ & ‘check’ our new dual-albatross be the proof said…


  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    Rin must go now folks, but just for awhile…stay thirsty my friends!


  • June 19, 2009  - Blake says:

    Long snapper Thomas Gafford, defensive tackle T.J. Jackson, wide receiver C.J. Jones and linebacker Darrell Robertson were let go by Kansas City.

    T.J. Jackson was the only player who was with the team last season appearing in nine games.

    This pushes the Chiefs down to 81 players on the roster. The team is allowed to bring in 80 to training camp.

    Who will be the last one to be cut?

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    Matt Cassel…

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    See, I told you it would be “just awhile”!

    Hey, did you notice that Robertson & Jones – former Patriot Way men – were among the released/

    “Any 22″ you said…right check?


    Herm & Rin be laughin’ are heads off – like this:

    ah, ah, ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

    heh heh heh…tee hee


  • June 19, 2009  - anonymous says:

    Just in case any one else is partaking in this blog any more, (other than rin talking to himself).

    Four down one to go to get to eighty.

    The unfortunate:

    Long snapper Thomas Gafford, defensive tackle T.J. Jackson, wide receiver C.J. Jones and linebacker Darrell Robertson.

  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:


    I have to say I’ve enjoyed this afternoon. Who would have thought that the two of us could agree on anything? I believe that might be a sign of the Apocalypse. :)

  • June 19, 2009  - Rin Tin Tin says:

    Careful; Rin works alone and sans a net (including the one men in white)… no riders nee coattailers – nor even Otis Taylor’s!


  • June 19, 2009  - RedandGoldRice says:

    I saw that Blake. I was dissapointed they let Jackson go. I thought he had some promise. Needless to say, it’ll be some scrub that gets cut regardless, but I’m ready for the other 31 teams to make their final cuts to see who we might snag in the process.

  • June 19, 2009  - Josh says:

    Haha, don’t get me wrong, Rin. We can still be mortal enemies…I just thought it a nice way to end a week. :)

  • June 19, 2009  - Jim Lloyd+ says:

    Was Stallworth speeding & drove off the road when he collided with the crane operater or did the worker move out in front of the car and failed to use caution .
    Was he hammered at 1.2 ?
    Two beers can get most to 1.0 .
    Accident with injury resulting in death is complete probable cause for testing .
    First time dui WILL get you a 2 game no pay.
    If Stallworth was at the wrong place at the wrong time, sure he’s going to get caught with a dui, but if he did not do any to break a driving carless , such as speeding ,not obeying siniage, swerving off the road,failure to yeild .
    Their’s a lot more to this than 30 day’s in jail.
    NFL career gone-house arrest-300 hours CS-life time no drivers licence.
    The hardest one is going to be the 300 hours CS !
    When they send to a landfill to pick up bags blowing in the wind and after 3 hrs they tell you to leave, and your ride does not wait because he had to go to the doctor-etc.
    House arrset, lets see, ex girl friend call’s the phone co. and changes your # two weeks out,and house arrest calls and not only do you not answer the phone but it’s off ~ here comes ta police.
    3 to 5 would have been easy, this whole went a little fast. HUMMMM ?

  • June 19, 2009  - alex k says:

    and I remember how people were ALL over Pioli for signing Jones, and Gretz had to come on here and say hes just camp fodder, well, he wasnt even that, he was OTA fodder.

  • June 19, 2009  - Scott says:

    Jim Lloyd+ says:
    “Their’s a lot more to this than 30 day’s in jail.
    NFL career gone-house arrest-300 hours CS-life time no drivers licence.”

    Just to clarify, Jim…they said the “house arrest” would not affect his “job”. So that would not keep him from playing.

  • June 19, 2009  - ED says:

    Neither Haley or Whizenhunt built Arizona. They may have put the pieces together but neither guy built that franchise. That was all Dennis Green. Any how yes the Chiefs got their work cut out for them but they will eventually put it together. This is franchise will continue to get bettter every year and take its rightful place as one the best franchises in the league again.

    Fans jus got to have patience.

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