Tyler’s Day, L.J.’s Day & Other Notes
From Arrowhead Stadium
There was some good and there was some bad for Tyler Thigpen on Sunday against New Orleans.
First, he threw a pair of touchdown passes to Dwayne Bowe. That’s the fourth consecutive game where he’s had at least one TD throw, making him the first KC quarterback to do that since Trent Green in November-December of 2005.
But Thigpen also threw his first interception in his last 161 passing attempts. His last throw of the day was grabbed by Saints CB Usama Young. That came with 2 minutes, 18 seconds to play and his team down by 10 points.
Now here’s the really bad for Thigpen. He’s started five NFL games and he’s 0-5.
“We’ve got to do better,” Thigpen said after the game. “We’ve got to win a game. That’s the bottom line. It’s not about me. It’s not about what I do or what I put up stat-wise. It’s about this team and we want to win a game.”
Thipgen was not nearly as accurate in throwing the ball as he had been the last three weeks, making just half of his 38 throws. Part of that drop in accuracy could well have been the extra pressure he was feeling from the Saints pass rush. He was sacked four times and flushed from the pocket several other times.
In fact, he made several nice throws and big plays on the run, hitting Mark Bradley for 31 yards and Will Franklin for 42 yards.
Overall in the last four starts, Thigpen is 85 of 140 (60.7 percent) for 945 yards (6.75 yards per attempt) for eight TDs and one INT.
He also had three carries for 45 yards, as he used his feet several times to run out of trouble, plus he had a nice 32-yard run on a quarterback draw that was called on a fourth-and-two play.
There were some changes in how the Chiefs ran their spread offense because of the addition of Larry Johnson, back after missing the last four games. Thigpen lined up about a yard closer to the center with Johnson immediately behind him.
“Either or, it doesn’t really matter; it’s only a yard difference,” said Thigpen. “Maybe the snap comes back a little quicker when it’s only four yards.”
Johnson touched the ball 20 times for a total of 87 yards. His best play of the game was a screen pass in the second half when he picked up 20 yards on what might have been the best screen the Chiefs have run in some time.
“I think he ran tough today,” G Brian Waters said of Johnson. “I think he ran physical and I think that the little offensive wrinkle that we showed today gives u s the ability to do both things we want to do. We just have to do a better job executing.”
Johnson was gone from the Chiefs locker room by the time the media entered after the game, but Herm Edwards was pleased with what he saw.
“We found a way to run the ball out of the shotgun a little bit better, but that’s still a work in progress,” said Edwards. “I thought a couple of times it looked pretty good. We’re going to continue to play that way because that’s the way we move the ball over the last month. That’s our offense and that’s not going to change.
“I think short yardage we’re going to have to do a little bit better job there. You can’t pass the ball all the time. You’ve got to be able to run in short yardage situations and we’ve got a big back that can do that. We’ve got to get some push up front.”
INJURIES
Inactive for the game because of injury were DE Tamba Hali (ankle), LB Derrick Johnson (hamstring), LB Pat Thomas (hamstring), CB Brandon Flowers (hamstring), CB Pat Surtain (quadriceps) and G Adrian Jones (ankle).
During the game, TE Tony Gonzalez left twice because of injuries. First it was his left foot and then it was his right ankle. He was able to come back from both of those and he got back in the action.
S Jarrad Page had to leave for a time because of an unknown injury, but he also returned. It was the same for CB Maurice Leggett.
After the game, the only injury that Edwards mentioned was to LB Donnie Edwards who missed the second half of the fourth quarter with a hamstring problem.
ROSTER STUFF
Just signed DE Jason Babin played quite a bit for the Chiefs, what with Hali out of the game. Officially, he became player No. 71 on the team’s 53-man roster and player No. 64 to have gotten on the field and played.
With Flowers and Surtain out, Leggett started on the corner again with recently signed Ricardo Colclough working as the nickel back. When Colclough was beaten for a TD pass, he was replaced as the nickel back by David Macklin.
The Chiefs played most of the game in their extra safety defense because of the linebacker injuries. Jon McGraw lines up generally at a linebacker position with Donnie Edwards and Rocky Boiman.
ZEBRAS
John Parry’s crew worked the game, walking off eight penalties for 48 yards. That’s below their season long average coming into the game of more than 12 penalties per game.
The Chiefs got hit for six penalties: RT Damion McIntosh false start, DE Jason Babin offsides, LB Erik Walden holding on a kickoff return, DE Turk Mc Bride neutral zone infraction, FB Mike Cox for holding and DT Ron Edwards offsides.
There were two instant replay challenges in the game, and both calls were upheld. New Orleans coach Sean Payton threw the first red flag on a catch by TE Brad Cottam. The Saints thought he dropped the ball. Edwards challenged a dive at the goal line by Johnson that looked like he got past the goal line. There was no replay view to overturn t he on-field call.
STATISTICS & PLAY-BY-PLAY
Here’s the league’s official game book from Sunday’s game between the Chiefs and Saints.
Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.
AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!
I think about half of the HOF QB’s wouldn’t have won their 5 starts with what TT has had to work with as a complete body of offense either. I think you have to look at the whole picture there.
We have got to get healthy and fix holes at too many places still. At least with QB, we are starting to get an idea that we might have something to build on.
The best possible draft pick at this point would be the Alabama left tackle and move Brandon Alberts to either RT or one of the guard slots. The Bama LT is going to be a long-timer for someone and will make an Off Coord look smarter.
I think Albert is actually proving himself very well at LT this year. I don’t think you change his position. I would much rather trade down a few spots and grab Malaluga and a second round pick… the line is really coming together and has looked tight for the past 3 or 4 weeks - one of the many reasons Tyler Thigpen has been so impressive.
It is no suprise that Brodie Croyle and Thigpen have not won a game coached by Herm Edwards.
The offensive line still needs improvement, and the BPA when the chiefs pick very well might be an Olineman.
Mal is overated IMO. He is too slow for a cover 2 D and will get exploited by TE like gates in coverage and in the middle of the field.
Babin didnt play as well as i hoped he would have.
I agree Albert doesn’t need to be moved. We need to bring a guy that is a natural Right tackle and we also need to bring in a right guard. I maybe even a center. Fans and media alike got to realize this teams still have holes to fill.
They look at our skill players (Bowe,Larry,Gonzalez,Bradley,Flowers,Page,etc) and say why aren’t we winning. Same reason the Lions,Bengals,Rams,and Raiders aren’t winning. We’re weak in the trenches. Until we address the trenches in the offseason we’re not going to beat good teams in the league. I promise my fellow Chiefs fans if we can improve the position on the right side of the o-line and the defensive end position we will win next yr. And we will win alot of games.
But as long as on offense line guys like McIntosh,wade smith,adrian jones and on defense line aaron boone,ron edwards, and mcbride exist we want beat good teams in this league. The 2009 draft can’t come soon enough. I’m sick of watching these sorry guys on the line on both sides of the ball.
I just don’t think any team in this league could win with all the injures we have . DE End & Linebackers plus O Line seem to me what well be needed in 09 draft . The QB is Tyler’s to louse with Croyle or Gray the backups Huart well be release after this season. In watching this year Chiefs pick a player or players to watch during the game it makes the game worth watching Our Time Is Coming In 09.
I’d have to agree with Eli. I’m liking Albert at his position. It’s still his first year. If there isn’t a 1st round QB waiting for us when we draft first, then maybe we could move down and pick up Maualuga or Laurinaitis and get a extra second round pick.
If we could get a free agent RG and draft a RT and then work the late rounds for some back ups/ future starters I think we’d have a competative line next year.
Who project better within our D scheme at DE in next years draft? Orakpo or Tyson Jackson from LSU? Recently, we’ve been tapping the LSU ranks, so I’m kind of leaning more so towards Jackson.
I also like Johnson from Georgia Tech. 6-7!! Thats a big boy there! And he sounds like he has a nasty first step.
Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.
AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!
Th o-line is not the #1 priority-It has GOT to be a pass rush! Best d-end or playmaking LB is the deal, in my opinion.
The Morton salt company has an old slogan that could just as easily describe the 2008 Chiefs:
“When it rains, it pours”.
Injuries are pouring down for sure. But so are poor tackling, offensive execution, pass rushing, special team play, and overall coaching.
Lots to fix and address but at this juncture, those fixes won’t be forthcoming until sometime during the 2009 season at the earliest.
I also feel yesterday’s game was lost because we could not get any pressure on the Saint’s QB all day. We need a speed rusher in next years draft to get pressure on the QB and get the defense off the field on third down. Of course there were several good defensive ends taken in this years draft and I have not heard too much about them as of yet. It would be nice to see a comparision of the top draft picks from this year and how they have fared. Maybe a good end of the year column Bob?
If it were up to me, I’d do what RedandGoldRice said above: trade down and pick up an extra pick or two. A 2nd rounder for sure. Get Laurinaitis in round 1 (NOT Maualuga) and then shore up the right side with those two 1st rounders. I wouldn’t mind the Oklahoma combo of Duke Robinson at guard and Phil Loadholt at tackle.
They need more pass rush, but I don’t trust Herm to draft more D linemen with top picks. That goes triple for Carl. If there’s a veteran out there worth his salt on the free agent market then I’d rather see them go that route. I thought for a guy they picked up off the street, Jason Babin played fairly well. Perhaps he will be a player who lessens this need.
hey bob & fellow chiefs fans, i think if we are able to get unrestricted free agent j. peppers and/or haynesworth (though i don’t think we’ll need him as our d tackles are beginning to come on) & another end/line backer (t. suggs). be it through the draft or free agency we will dominate like the giants. everything is in place. i think we have the nucleus for a very special team. for all the people who said herm can’t do this, herm can’t do that….i think he’s doing very well w/a make shift team. if you look at us we are competeing w/a bunch of cast offs. thigpin, bradley, d.edwards, p.thomas, d.williams, r.edwards, d.mcintosh, a.jones, d.huard ect. i look at other teams that are struggling & i have to say we are much better than them. herm has our team playing at a very high level, especially given the level of talent around him. if we are able to land peppers & a rt, be it gross or who ever i think we could easily win 10 games next year. w/a pass rush i think we will be just as formidable as the giants.
We are all “pie in the sky” today. The chiefs history is 7 years of defensive draft picks who cannot play at any level, “we don’t need no stinkin’ free agents” and probably would not know how to use them anyway.
Albert is going to be a great addition but sunday they could not run behing him and Waters inside the 5 twice.
Draft picks? This blasted season is not over yet. Kevins comments change TT to Brodie and it could have been made before this fiasco started. To draft you have to know what you need, pick a position we need help everywhere after a terrific draft this year and some nobodies preforming, get it 1 year of rebuilding and we have just as many ? as when the season started.
Sorry but this last game really corked me.
We need to draft DE and a line backer or two.
There several good free agent O-Line guys, ck out this http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/fa/ol.html
We imo can solve our O-Line problems through free agency.
The problem with free agents is that they have to WANT to come to your team. If they are good enough to help, everyone will want them. Until we show we can win, who wants to come? Detroit has never been able to attract top FA’s because it is a loser franchise. We need to establish the ability to win before we can really get free agents that will help. Of course, we can always pay way more than the market value, but then we get into cap problems. Better to continue to draft and then fill in with free agents in 2010. Hopefully, we will have established a good core of players and FA’s will want to come to KC to finish out the team.
For anyone looking at LB, did you see the Boston College duo against Florida State? My God, those two are beasts. Talk about run stuffers.
B, The Chiefs O-Line problems are a quandrum, we have guys playing out of position, for one (Niswanger) is NOT a center, I think he should move outside to RT, Think of a Jon Alt. (most ppl say he has quick enough feet to handle that position.) We may or may not have a right guard of the future on the roster already (and possibly a Center) Richardson/Wade respectively. Jones has grown quite a bit since the beginning of the season so he has to figure into that mix also, either as a starter or depth (his injury hurts the evaluation process)
imo it would be a mistake to draft o-linemen when we MAY already have guys that can play.
I’d like us to sign a proven rock solid free agent center.
Hopefully over the next 6 games we can get guys like Wade, Richardson and Taylor either more playing time, or move some of them around and see exactly what we have and or what our needs truly are.
Focus on D-Ends and LB’s in the first rounds of the draft and if we can, maybe grab a Back in the earlier rds too.
PS. B, the Chiefs have a long Tradition of having a stellar O-line, there are guys in this league that still appreciate that history, we won’t have a problem signing a free agent O-lineman.
I do agree with you about the Chiefs reputation of late has probably hurt our chances of signing any Glamour guys like wide outs and Backs but It doesn’t effect the real football players on the field, the BIG UGLIES (D-line/O-Line)They don’t think much about that stuff….imo
you guys want to keep throwing 1st rnd picks at the Dline when we aldready have committed so many high round picks to that position.
Dorsey: 1st rnd
McBride: 2nd rnd
Hali: 1st rnd
Tank: 3rd rnd
Johnston: 7th rnd
Just drafting more bodies there is not the solution. Those guys have got to be given an oppurtunity to develop! If you draft another 1st rnd DE, than does that mean that Johnston, McBride, or Hali become a backup?
CHiefs need to get the BPA at a position of need, and the chiefs have alot of needs. I agree Laurantis would be a better fit for the chiefs than Mal, but I would want neither as a top 10 pick.
Trading down might be the best option, but who knows what will be available when the chiefs pick. If a top QB is available, the chiefs have to consider it.
I dont think there is a DE tha is available that warrants a top 10 pick.
**Tyson Jackson is 290lbs. he translates to a 3-4DE or 4-3DT. 2nd rnd pick
**Orakpo appears like a hali clone (speed and measurables)
**Everette Brown out of FSU has the same measurables as Orakpo, is faster (with a faster 1st step), and has virtually the same college production but is considered a late 2nd rnd pick
**Michael Johnson has great size and speed, but does not have the college production to back it up. He might just be a ‘workout warrior’ and is a huge bust risk. mid/late 1st rnd pick
Yes the season is over and was over a long time ago. Statistically, the chiefs should be eliminated from playoff hopes.
John,
you said, “imo it would be a mistake to draft o-linemen when we MAY already have guys that can play.”
Brian Waters and everyone else said that Richardson isnt ready to play. The fact that none of the ‘young guys’ can beat out McIntosh and Jones on the right side says alot. There talent (such as Albert’s) should be glaring in practice.
Herb Taylor is not a RT. He is good in pass pro, but he is not a mauler. Everyone has said so. He isnt even a mauler when playing LT.
Basically, the chiefs have 3 Guards on the PS, and plenty of guys who might be able to play Guard on the team including Richardson who I think is our version of Herman Johnson.
They dont have a dominant RT on the team, and although we could find a decent one in free agency we could only find a dominant one in the draft.
What it comes down to this. All players have a ‘draft grade.’ When the chiefs pick, an Olineman more than likely will have a higher draft grade than any other position in the draft (except possibly QB). If the BPA is a Olineman, than the chiefs should draft him even though we have Albert on the team. Having bookend tackles will solidify the chiefs Oline and allow them to succesfully run and pass.
They Chiefs drafted Dorsey (after drafting 2 Dlineman last yr), Morgan (when we have 2 young safties starting), Charles (when the chiefs had LJ and Kolby aldready), and Cottam (when we had Tony).
The chiefs said Cottam was supposed to be a replacement for Dunn, but you dont draft a blocking TE in the 3rd rnd.
Why was the 2008 chiefs draft regarded as highly succesful? Because they drafted the best player available..not necessarily positions of need. That should continue.
dr, Just because Wade or Richardson aren’t playing doesn’t impress my opinion of there talents or lack there of.
Herm and the rest of the Chiefs coaching staff and you, all said Thigpen wasn’t ready.
So how is it that I/you am supposed to say without any doubt they can’t play.
And since when is a 7th rd pick (Johnston) a HIGH pick?? In your mind Dorsey, Tyler and McBride are already bust!? That tells me that you either are ignorant or just hate the fact that the Chiefs have some talent.
I’ve decided that you are right about Gun it is time for him to go, if for no other reason than he is herm’s last ligit. excuse for his failings.
Now here’s the really bad for Thigpen. He’s started five NFL games and he’s 0-5. Croyle started and he was 0 for something. It’s a team game, does Thigpen play defense? Maybe he should and punt too.
The above Carl is not me lol. I watched the whole game good or bad yesterday. I was really disappointed in the defense and the special teams. Usually when something is this wrong it has to do with the plan not the players. There is something definitely wrong. Dorsey did get doubled a couple of times but most of the time he was one on one with center, guard or left tackle and each one handled him. He was pushing them back and then they would get assist because the ends werent helping at all. This is suppose to be a 4-3 defense not a 1-3-2. little bit crazy. if you miss the meaning of a 1-3-2 its one man up the middle 3 supposedly helping and 2 linebackers. Time to make a change I think their. Our offense allowed 4 sacks yesterday and lj was lost a little bit and didnt pu the strong side rush. Still all in all they are playing better. I wont comment on the special teams that was just sick.
findthdr,
I completely agree with you. We MUST take the BPA next year. Even if it means passing on a qb in the first round (my personal desire). I think Richardson can be a successful O-line player in the future, he isn’t now, and our depth chart is pathetic.
Look at the Giants. They drafted multiple D-linemen in recent years and they managed to destroy the Pats O-line. Plus, the type of O that Harm wants to run will require a mauling O-line that we do not have yet. BPA or trade down for an extra 2nd round pick and then BPA.
OK—- Instead of chating on what every player is doing , right or what . Try and find an answer to the RED ZONE . 1st thing is when your in side the 6 or 5 yard line , there is so little field to work with that you HAFT TO HAVE offencie blocking at a very - very high level . They did at one time ! Not hit that level just yet . Whats the answer , —300 pound running back ? Off.& def lines are all jamed up , how would that help ? Little room to pass ? whats needed , is time for your QB to get to a level , like Payton , Farve ECT. Wait– line All 3 tight ends , on one side , to do no more than block –QB on the other side & snap to the quickest RB to follow the TEs . Trying some different ,whats to lose . team Does not have the blocking to make a hole in the middle ,(nor do alot of other teams) . That short pass has to be perfect,MAN .
John,
1. Wade played RG yesterday. The oline gave up 4 sacks and the Right side was continually being collapsed
2. Johnston is not a high pick, but he is 1 of 5 Dlineman drafted under Herm
3. John you said: “In your mind Dorsey, Tyler and McBride are already bust!? That tells me that you either are ignorant or just hate the fact that the Chiefs have some talent.”
you make up your own statement and than draw your own conclusions based on your made up statement.
Re-read what I wrote. I said, “Just drafting more bodies there is not the solution. Those guys have got to be given an oppurtunity to develop! If you draft another 1st rnd DE, than does that mean that Johnston, McBride, or Hali become a backup?”
We have 5 drafted lineman under Herm. There are only 4 starting positions. Aldready 1 of the 5 is going to be serving some backup role. If you draft another 1st rnd Dlineman either of 3 things will happen:
1. He outperforms existing lineman from the start as a rookie and pushes 1 of the previously drafted lineman to the bench
2. He is handed a starting position (like Dorsey) when he is not ready and learns on the job. This development period keeps a better player on the bench and keeps the team from playing better than he should
3. He is on the bench (like Tank and McBride last yr) and doesnt contribute much his 1st yr as a 1st rnd pick.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/barry-richardson?id=838#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis
Read the analysis of Richardson:
“Pick Analysis: He’s a huge guy who runs well and has talent, but it has been said he lacks passion for the game. If a coach can motivate him and get him excited about playing football, he may well wind up being a find at the GUARD position.”
“Compares To: ANDREW WHITWORTH-Cincinnati…Left tackles in college, Richardson’s poor knee bend and timed speed will dictate that he follow Whitworth with a move to offensive guard or right tackle, as to not be exposed by top-tier defensive ends when playing on an island.”
Richardson is not ready to play RT, and we dont know if he will ever be a good NFL tackle. There is no reason, however, that he shouldnt be starting at RG NOW.
O _ BOY , that call on 42 was way wrong , he barley touched the guy ,if may be not even that . That was another one that cost , major !!!!!
Jim Lloyd,
you asked for solutions for Red Zone offense. How about this:
1. bench McIntosh. Chiefs are likely eliminated from playoffs now, and should not waste playing time on him.
2. Go Big in a 2WR, 2TE set
Cottam: 6′7” 269 lbs
TG: 6′5” 251 lbs
Bowe: 6′2” 221 lbs
Bradley: 6′1” 201lbs
Those skill players are heavy enough to help with run blocking, and tall enough to be red zone threats in the passing game.
3. Charles at RB. his quickness and pass protection are far greater than what LJ currently brings to the table
3. Shotgun/Spread formation w/ the ability for the QB option.
Tyler is more comfortable in it, it buys him time, and our line is not yet good enough to play ’smashmouth football’
Really, this creates hugh matchup problems for defenders and should be very succesful. As I’ve said before, what is really holding the team back is the Right side of the Offensive line which is so poor that blockers (RB and TE) are being held back to support. Spread options are only succesful when their are multiple threats for a QB to take advantage of.
I agree findthedr we shouldn’t take a defensive end to early. WE should focus on the o-line more especially right tackle. But I also think we need another pass rusher. Just to add depth to that position and besides McBride and Tamba haven’t been getting it done consistently all season. So it wouldn’t hurt for them to take a defensive end at 3rd or 4th round. But the focus definately need to be on the offensive line first. Then look for a defensive end and middle linebacker.
The only way I see us getting a good free agent offensive lineman Peterson will have to open up the pocket book. Because no good veteran lineman wants to come to a rebuilding situation unless he’s going to get paid some serious Cheddar.
I think with them getting healthy on D things would be different. We are playing with several 2nd and 3rd string players. Including guys that just joined in the last few weeks.
As far as draft goes. Our needs is to get a pass rush from our front 4. They knew Dorsey would not provide that right away when they drafted him but on passing downs he is getting some push up the middle. Turk and Johnson are getting some push but its not near as fast as it needs to be.
The rush D has looked much better we held LT well last week and the Saints did do much at all. Teams will continue to pick on our corners given our situation but I think with a Healthy Flowers and Carr on the opposite side we are going to have a nasty tandom that is not affaid to get physical. Page and Pollard starting to lead by example and Pollard has looked outstanding that last few games.
LB’s we just need them healthy. DJ needs to play to his potiental Everyone even outside KC knows this guy is just about ready to explode and become an amazing player. But this year health and not playing consistantly has hurt him and his development. I would like to see Donnie moved to the middle for that veteran leadership and Demario on the otherside. I think that would be a nice foundation for the team.
Offense believe we need to trade Larry at the end of the season he is a liability, he doesnt pass block well, we have better pass catching backs. Will be a huge cap hit in the coming seasons and if he is traded before he is 30 we might get a 3rd or 4th out of it if we are lucky. The situation is basically what happened with Shaun Alexander. I think between Savage, Charles and a Smith we have plenty of people to run the ball. They all prove they can do everything LJ cant.
We need to shore up our OL on offense and I think we will really be fine.
All in all. I think they are doing well given the cards they have been dealt. I think they will still turn some heads at in the next few weeks.
You guys have really put some thought into your comments. I do not follow college enought to know who is best at what position. That said if herm survives after this season ( I believe he will) he has to have another draft with guys who can play right away. That mean no CB, we need more but have enough for starting a game. No special teamers, everybody plays s.t. or not on the team. Monster MLB would be nice. Plus the positions you mentioned.
I dont pretend to know what we should draft in the first round….etiher a qb, d-end or middle linebacker… (can we get a package deal?)
If we can trade down a still fill a quality hole that so be it. But if we can find a difference maker for years to come than suck it uo and pay the man.
I guarantee we can find a playmaker offensive lineman in the second round.
But I do believe that we may need to look to free agency to gain some proven linebackers or a d-end.
But honestly I love where this team is heading, the sky is the limit and pretty soon we’ll be knocking on everyone’s door.
There once was a coach in San Fran. that changed a lot in football , not by just trying to improve what was already there , he changed everything . He also improved the whole game . —BILL WALSCH !!!!———– Oh so did Einestine , but that was just on energy .
If I make any more coments,— WAIT, WAIT — Dierct snaps to RBs ,dosent that open a nother door ,Can your recievers start Blocking off the line .
The Bills seem to have this short( Red Zone ) and they scored on it . The QB takes the snap , hands off to a smaller - quick - running back headed for a end around . He finds a HOLE and cuts hard in to it . It was towards the end of the of the game .