Tuesday Morning Cup O’Chiefs
The folks at NFL.com had an interesting story up over the weekend about trading a first-round draft pick for a veteran player.
The theme of the story? Was it worth the risk to give up a first-rounder for a proven player who might have but one or two years left in the league? Of course, the premise could be reversed, as with the Chiefs and the deal that sent Tony Gonzalez to Atlanta. Is it worth the risk of taking a draft pick in return for a veteran player who was still near the top of his game?
The only way we can answer the question involving Gonzalez is time, to see how it plays out. How does he help the Falcons and who comes to the Chiefs with that second-round choice from Atlanta in next year’s NFL Draft?
The trades that the NFL.com story looks at include the deal that sent Herschel Walker to the Minnesota Vikings for a host of draft picks, the three-team trade that sent RB Eric Dickerson to the Colts, a long ago deal between the Giants and Vikings for QB Frank Tarkenton and others.
Another deal in the story is one that’s dear to the hearts of Chiefs fans: the 1993 trade between Kansas City and San Francisco that brought QB Joe Montana (left) to the team.
The trade was pulled off between 49ers GM Carmen Policy, Chiefs GM Carl Peterson and Montana and his agent Peter Johnson. Montana, safety David Whitmore and a third-round choice in the 1994 NFL Draft came to Kansas City for the Chiefs first-round pick in the 1993 Draft, selection No. 18.
The Chiefs used that third-rounder to select WR Lake Dawson. San Francisco made two draft-day deals, trading down and picking up a third and a fifth, and with the 26th choice grabbed DT Dana Stubblefield out of the University of Kansas.
In the end, the deal was Montana, Whitmore and Dawson for Stubblefield, CB Adrian Hardy and DL Artie Smith. It really comes down to Montana for Stubblefield. Whitmore and Dawson made contributions, but combined to play in 61 games, with 32 starts. Hardy and Smith combined to play30 games with six starts.
Montana played two seasons, starting 25 games and throwing for 5,427 yards with 29 TDs and 16 INTs and was named to the 1993 Pro Bowl. The Chiefs went to the ’93 AFC Championship Game and made the playoffs in ’94, losing a first-round game to Miami.
Stubblefield ended up playing seven seasons with San Francisco. He appeared in 108 games with 106 starts for the Niners, contributing 46.5 sacks and two INTs. He was named the NFL’s defensive player of the year in 1997 and earned three Pro Bowl trips. Every season that Stubblefield played in San Francisco (1993-97 and 2001-02) he was in the playoffs, winning a Super Bowl after the 1994 season.
In the end, the Niners got the better of the deal. Yes, Montana got the Chiefs over the hump and into the conference championship game. That was a valuable experience at that point in the rebuilding job done by Peterson and Marty Schottenheimer on the franchise. But the Chiefs were unable to sustain that momentum after Montana retired following the ’94 season.
San Francisco dealt a Hall of Fame quarterback because they had another Hall of Fame quarterback waiting to play (Steve Young). They kept on winning, going to the playoffs and winning a championship. They never missed Montana and Stubblefield helped their defense.
If you are a Chiefs fan of 15-plus years, what do you think of the deal now with the benefit of hindsight? Would you do it again?
For those that want to see the whole story, here’s the link.
UPDATE ON THE COLLAPSE OF THE COWBOYS PRACTICE BUILDING
Inspectors from the OHSA were on site looking at what was left of the Dallas Cowboys indoor practice facility on Monday, while three members of the organization remain in Dallas hospitals.
Special teams coach Joe DeCamillis was in stable condition after surgery at Parkland Hospital to stabilize broken bones in his spine. In a Cowboys statement, the team said he’s expected to be released later in the week. At the Baylor Medical Center, trainer Greg Gaither was recovering from surgery on his leg.
And scouting assistant Rich Behm got visits at Parkland from Tony Romo, Jason Witten and several other Cowboys players. Behm suffered spinal injuries so severe he is paralyzed from the waist down.
The Cowboys facility was not able to withstand a Saturday storm that blew through Irving, as it collapsed on approximately 70 people who were inside the building watching a practice session during the team’s rookie mini-camp. While the facility was built six years ago, it was outfitted with a new roof last year.
STEELERS FINALLY RELEASE LB LARRY FOOTE
Veteran LB Larry Foote was released by the Pittsburgh Steelers on Monday and he would seem a very good candidate to come up on the Chiefs personnel department radar screen.
Foote has played seven years for the Steelers and been a starter at inside linebacker for the past five years. He will be 29 years old next month. In his career, Foote has 14.5 sacks, three interceptions, seven forced fumbles and five recovered fumbles.
He had asked for his release and it was granted. There’s one year to go on his current contract at $2,885,000. Foote has said he would like to go home to Detroit and play for the Lions.
During the Steelers run to the Super Bowl last year, Foote started all 19 games at right inside linebacker, with 86 total tackles during the regular season. That was fifth on the team. He was unhappy that on passing downs last year he came off the field and was replaced by Lawrence Timmons, Pittsburgh’s first-round choice in the 2007 NFL Draft. Timmons figures to replace Foote in the starting lineup.
INTEREST IN CHUCK COOK
Once he was fired last week by the Chiefs new regime, it did not take director of college scouting Chuck Cook long to hear about possible jobs around the NFL.
The Detroit Lions, Houston Texans and Miami Dolphins have all been in touch with Cook since last Monday when he was let go by the Chiefs after his 25th season with the franchise.
SIGNINGS & MOVEMENT AROUND THE LEAGUE
BROWNS – released S Corey Boudreaux, WR Brent Casteel, TE Mike Massey and CB Antonio Smith.
BUCCANEERS – released WR Paris Warren, CB Greg Fassitt and OT Andre Douglas.
CARDINALS – re-signed OT Oliver Ross.
COLTS – released LB Rufus Alexander and P Mike Dragosovich.
JAGUARS – released OT Stefan Rodgers, QB Nathan Brown and CB Isaiah Gardner.
JETS – signed DT Anthony Harris.
PACKERS – released LB Jason Hunter.
PATRIOTS – signed LB Vinny Ciurciu.
REDSKINS – signed WR Trent Shelton and WR Roydell Williams.
STEELERS – released LB Larry Foote.
TEXANS – released TE Courtney Anderson.
SAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY …
Born on May 5, 1973 in Downey, California was TE Brian Roche. He joined the Chiefs in the 1998 season and played in four games that year.
The deal that brought us Montana was a good example of a deal that was a good deal for both sides. We had a hall of fame QB for those two years and were in contention for the Super Bowl both years. Had Montana not had his head slammed into the frozen turf in Buffalo in the championship game or stuck around for one more year when our defense set a record for not giving up any points in the second half of 10 straight games (If memory serves me correctly) and gave us home field advantage in the playoffs who knows how it would have turned out. I know this much. It was flat out fun watching him operate as the Chiefs QB and made KC relevant in the title hunt the entire time he was with us. We all know how it turned out the next year with all the marbles lined up for us and the keys to the championship in some lesser capable replacement’s hands.
About Larry Foote being in KC with all that has been set for the LB’s he would be more of a distraction from what already is set.
That’s alot of money + one year ?
Yeah…I’d do that Montana deal over again but you have to remember…it wasn’t just Montana. Marcus Allen was a part of that picture too. I wouldn’t make that trade today with the current team…but with that team in ’93…yeah..I’d do it again.
I hated the Montana deal. I couldn’t see giving up a first-round draft choice for a 35-year-old QB with little arm strength left. How many years was Montana going to play, even if he hadn’t banged his head on the frozen tundra in Buffalo? How long was a first-rounder going to play? Then again, given Peterson’s history of first-round busts, maybe it WAS a good deal after all!!!
I would have to agree with Johnfromfairfax. At the time in 1993 I was unsure if it was a good move considering Montana’s back injury. Given the fact he took us to the playoffs both years it turned out to be a good deal. Although I have to agree with Harold C. in that, if he had stayed around for one more year the outcome might have been better for us. I also really enjoyed watching Montana, Marcus Allen, Kimball Anders and the rest of the offense in those two years. As well as watching the defense mature into a formidable force. I just wish they could have pulled it all together.
It also seems in the game up there in Buffalo, that Montana tried to wear gloves against the cold temperatures. He was very inaccurate in the first half as he had trouble gripping the ball. Then in the second half he took the gloves off and was throwing the ball better, just before he got hit!
What’s up with Jacksonville cutting Nathan Brown? He was a rookie free agent signing of a couple of weeks ago. That’s kind of strange, but maybe he’ll catch on with another team.
I loved the deal and would do it again. It made watching the Chiefs a much more enjoyable experience. In fact, just last night the NFL NETWORK replayed the 1994 Chiefs vs Broncos game at Mile High…Montana, Elway, Marcus, D.T. all HOFers and don’t forget Neil Smith, Atwater, Mecklenburg, Sharpe, and Crow! What a game, brought back some good memories.
Merwin-I think the playoff game Montana tried to wear gloves was the playoff game here against Pittsburg. It was very cold here. He only used them for a quarter or so. He was ineffective and didn’t use them any more. We eventually won in overtime, our last playoff win at home
From the Chief’s #18 pick in the 1993 onward, the next quarterback taken was Billy Joe Hobart in the third round. Successful quarterbacks taken after that pick include Mark Brunnel (5th round), and, ironically, Elvis Grbac and Trent Green in the 8th round. None of those players was worth a 1st round pick at the time, and none of them were ready to be a first round starter. In terms of filling their needs at quarterback, I don’t think the Chiefs could possibly have done better in that draft.
I’d absolutely do this trade again. If you had to name the five best QBs in Chiefs history, Montana, for better or worse, would probably be on it. Let’s see, after Lenny and Green, you can take your pick of who comes next. Grbac and Kinney had better Chiefs career numbers only because they played longer. Livingston? Probably not on the list. Gannon? Perhaps.
Oh hell, Montana might be the third best QB in Chiefs history the more I think of it. AFC Championship games have not been sniffed around here since Joe left. This trade would have looked even better if Lake Dawson could have stayed healthy. He always flashed potential but could never stay on the field. A shame really, he was a class act. This trade was a highlight of Carl’s reign.
Bob, kind of surprising comparison big guy, as, of course, one judging Montana vs. Stubblefield seems to be founded on some erroneous reasoning. Would KC have taken Stubblefield or someone else? If I recall right, didn’t we have a pretty strong D-line and linebacker corps?
We were in position where, even while playing MartyBall, the key spot we had a need was at QB. With Marcus not exactly the youngest guy and DT in his prime, action was needed in the short term, not 3-5 years down the road – thus our move was brilliant.
As mentioned, only time will tell if the Gonzo trade works out – but one big problem is that the expiration date for our patience may come a lot quicker for Pioli and Haley to prove to the faithful that they’re making the right choices to turn this team around. Much like when Herm went 4-12 and then Jared Allen was traded…and the team went 2-14. One can just about guarantee that a couple more of those type seasons will guarantee that our coach and general manager will be booted in record time.
OK! Now I’m convinced! Gun has lost his F’n mind!
http://www.810whb.com/article/583
I love the guy, but come on…..
On the trade for Montana, I would do it again in a heartbeat! All things considered.
“1994 Chiefs vs Broncos game at Mile High…”
The number 1 reason we got Montana – a leader for this team to get us past Elway!
Remember, we already had DT that did a very effective job chasing Elway…but Elway still always seemed to make that one disgusting play that would break our hearts time and again.
You said, “The only way we can answer the question involving Gonzalez is time, to see how it plays out. How does he help the Falcons and who comes to the Chiefs with that second-round choice from Atlanta in next year’s NFL Draft?”
As Chiefs fans, we are most concerned with how the trade affects the Chiefs, not his success or failure with the Falcons, although that will have some bearing on the draft order for the 2nd round pick. How the trade affects the Chiefs only matters in what they do with that 2010 pick and his loss of production on the field in 2009 and 2010, Even then, if they trade it away, or package it with other picks or players, it becomes convoluted. There really is no way to tell unless you can foresee multiple futures, like a parallel universe, which of course is not possible, at least as far as we know. Maybe there is another Bob Gretz out there and he won the Pulitzer.
MadJew,
LMAO! Love your finish!
Ditto what anon. said. Brilliant!
I agree with you anon,
yeah, eric hicks….wtf? Thot he was working at a supermarket or something. j.k. Forgot all about him
Man, who would have thought Eric Hicks would get a deal with the Lions? Or anyone for that matter? I’ll root for the guy to make the roster because he’s a stand up individual but this move is hardly inspiring for Detroit. Maybe that signing will show Larry Foote that the Lions still don’t have a clue and he’ll go ahead and come here. I’d feel a lot better about our LB corps with Foote added to the mix.
I loved Hicks, Big Motor Guy. Just think Gun’s grasping at straws here. I wish Hicks the best but he’s probably a little long in the tooth. Chiefs could certainly use some guys Like Hicks was in his prime.
I think the Montana deal was good for both teams. I think it was the right call for the Chiefs. If we had won the superbowl, wouldn’t you all say it was right? We got close, and the fact that we didn’t doesn’t change the logic at the time of the trade. The logic was sound. We were close, but needed a leader at QB to get us over the hump.
It’s a gamble, but a gamble that wasn’t too risky since we ended up getting a 3rd rounder and a safety as well. Seems like pretty fair value even though we didn’t quite make the SB.
Bob,
The niners certainly got the better of this deal, but it is not not fair to say that the #18 pick always turns out to be a defensive player of the year. In fact, had the Chiefs kept that pick, I doubt that they would have selected Dana Stubblefield.
What if that pick turned out to be Jim Druckenmiller who the niners selected at #20 in 1998? In that case the slam dunk winner is the Chiefs.
You make that deal every time. A competent starting QB for a single first round pick is a winning proposition. It makes the Cassel deal look mighty fine.
I doubt the Chiefs would have gotten as close to the Super Bowl as they did if they had not taken Montana…and we probably would not have that cool win in the snow in Denver. I loved that game. We have some great memories even though we haven’t a Super Bowl. Who cares if the 9ers got a better deal. We got a great deal too….and it almost paid off.
For the Chiefs, this was an incredible deal because it made them relevent and news worthy. It really accelerated King Carl’s 20 year quest for nothing note worthy. I was just a teenager, but Joe Montana was exciting, he was everyones favorite QB. Because, he was such a likeable icon. The Chiefs also never would have took Dana with that pick, they didn’t need him.
The only bad thing about the trade was Carl ended up sticking with 9er backups in Bono and Grbac. My dad is a 9er fan and to this day he keeps asking when the Chiefs will trade for their backup.
It was the right move.
An interesting argument is who the Chiefs may have selected had they kept their pick, the 18th overall, and selected a player. I agree with those who said that we would not have drafted Stubblefield. In all likelyhood, the Chiefs would have nabbed an offensive player with the pick. Some players who got drafted in that area were OT Ernest Dye (18th), OG Lester Holmes (19th), TE Irv Smith (20th) and RB Robert Smith (21st). Dye was a bust with only 23 career starts. Holmes was an ok OG. Irv Smith was just an ok TE. Robert Smith struggled mightily with injuries in his first four seasons before rebounding with four straight 1000 yard campaigns before abruptly retiring after his eighth and best season in which he topped 1500. It seems unlikely we would have drafted Smith, since they had just signed Marcus Allen. Although that didn’t stop them from drafting Greg Hill in the 1st round the following year.
Perhaps they would have taken WR OJ McDuffie (25th) who had a decent, if unspectacular career with the Dolphins. Or, more frightening, they might have taken CB Carlton Gray (30th) over fellow CBs Deon Figures(22nd) and Darrien Gordon (23rd). We know Peterson loved Carlton Gray, as evidenced by the big contract he eventually gave him in 1999, even though his career had been average to that point. Two unproductive seasons later, he was gone and ranks as one of the worst free agent signings of the CP era.
After taking a look at this evidence, the Chiefs undoubtedly made the right choice by dealing for Montana. Sure he was only here for two years, but what a fun two years it was!
The fact is, the momentum DID continue past Montana’s days – it was just that we never had a quarterback who could provide that little extra something we needed. Let’s play “what if” – What if it was Montana leading the Chiefs against the Colts on that cold day at Arrowhead when Bono could’t find a receiver with a magnifying glass, and Elliot couldn’t kick a ball through the spans of the Golden Gate bridge? You gotta believe, with that defense, if Joe would have stayed another year or two, we would have had a second Lombardi trophy.
“If a tie is like kissing your sister, losing is like kissing your grandmother with her teeth out.”Â
- George Brett -
We all like the hope of rebuilding for a stronger team long-term – but we’d like to do some winning along the way. Mr. Pioli, please endeavour to build to get us more than 4 wins this year in your quest to get the “Right (22) 53,” as the 1980′s were a painful time for this organization and its fan base.
Hey Rob G, its a little early to start calling Cassel the next Montana, remember Montana actually played good for many years, not just one.
I watched the classic game between the Chiefs and Donkeys last night on NFL network. Without Montana in that game, we would have lost, and nobody would be considering KC a Super Bowl contender in ’94. That was the same year the Chargers were on a Super Bowl run of their own, until the 49ers destroyed that dream that year in Super Bowl XXIX. Joe Montana gave Chiefs fans a taste of something they hadn’t tasted in years: a chance to see their team contending for a championship. I’d do that deal for Montana over and over again without hesitation.
I’d like to believe the Chiefs will be gunning for Foote. I play as the Chiefs in Madden, and I actually signed him in my game which worked out for my team pretty well. So it’d be funny to me if he actually played for the Chiefs in real life.
As far as real life football goes for our beloved Chiefs I think Foote would be a good pick-up, but I fear his price tag may be too high for his services. He’s not a spectacular LB by any means, but he did play in an aggressive 34 scheme with the Steelers. That 34 scheme is what the Chiefs hope to somewhat emulate. He also brings a nasty defensive mentality with him that could make its way into the rest of that Chiefs defense which it so desperately needs.
Foote would look spectacular, if one were comparing him to DJ!
Magnified x 6 in a three four!
Who cares, montana is old news…too, even in his prime nee on his very best day, he couldn’t carry #16 Lenny Dawson’s shoes.
conehead1978 strikes again!
Diagnosis, ate up with a terminal case of Dumb Ass.
Prognosis, Continued stupidity.
Did the Chiefs have a LB that was looking good at the end of last season– Boiman or something like that, what was his name – and what’s up?
As usual, Carl got taken in a draft choice trade. No reason to give up a #1 since Joe was not going back to SF, and we were about the only market for him.
Carl consitently gave up too high a draft choice(s) when he didn’t have to, when the Chiefs were the only market, and the other team had to get rid of the player(Montana, Trent, Surtain)and consistently got lower draft choice(s) then he should have. He also was dumb enough to give up draft choics for Verneil and especially Herm.
Hail to the Chief! I’d do the trade again in a minute. At that time I was a big SF fan and split KC Chiefs fan. With Montana leading our offense, I was sold to the Chiefs. I wish he still was on our team today, no matter how old he is.
He got us to the AFC Championship game with a coach proven not to win in the playoffs. Regardless of that he was so much fun to watch drive a team down the field. My memory of him as #19 is priceless. That is what this game is all about.
The Montana trade made me a life long Chiefs fan. Go Chiefs!
Trading the first for Montana and Co. was worth it. Even if it only lasted 2 years. It was a great time in Chiefs history.