Thursday Morning Cup O’Chiefs
The clock is ticking as the start of the 2009 NFL Draft draws closer.
It’s also ticking on the Chiefs attempts to deal out of the third spot in the first round.
And it’s ticking on the possible trade of tight end Tony Gonzalez.
The next 48 hours will decide if Chiefs GM Scott Pioli can pull off a deal or two and add more draft picks by giving up the third selection and the future Hall of Fame tight end.
Listen, Pioli has deal-making in his blood. He was part of it so many times with the Patriots. They approached draft day trades on two avenues. If one of their targeted players was still available, they wanted to make sure they got him and New England would trade up. If there wasn’t a player on their list who was available at their pick, they were likely to trade down.
Of course, we know nothing for sure on how Pioli views the prospects in this draft or the possibility of trading out of the pick. Those cards continue to be held close to the vest.
The same goes with the Gonzalez situation and whether or not Pioli will deal the veteran tight end who wants to be elsewhere.
One man’s prediction: he gets stuck with the third pick, but does work out a deal for Gonzalez.
Here’s a closer look.
THIRD PICK
Here’s what we “think” we know:
- The Chiefs want out, just like every team with spots at the top of this draft.
- There have been no trades in the top five since the 2003 Draft.
- Reports out of Detroit indicate the Lions will select QB Matt Stafford.
With Stafford going to the Lions, that limits the chances of the Chiefs dealing the pick. If the Lions had gone for an offensive tackle or LB Aaron Curry, and Stafford would have been available with the No. 3 pick, there could have been a whole new look to the top of the first round.
Now the focus falls on QB Mark Sanchez. There are teams in the league that like Sanchez over Stafford and if you can believe media reports – and often you can’t at this time of the year as teams and agents spread misinformation – there are three teams especially interested in the Southern Cal passer: Seattle, the New York Jets and Washington.
If it’s true that the Seahawks have an interest in Sanchez, that could be Pioli’s only chance to deal. If the Jets or Redskins were convinced they had to get ahead of Seattle to get a chance for Sanchez, a trade might get done. The Seahawks have the fourth pick, Washington has the 13th choice and New York pick No. 17.
Now, if Pioli truly wants to get out of No. 3, more than likely he’s going to have to accept an offer that’s less than what the draft pick value chart would indicate.
Should Sanchez get past No. 4, it’s likely he will still be there at No. 8, as Cleveland, Cincinnati and Oakland are unlikely to select a quarterback.
So, would the Seahawks be interested in Sanchez? Starting QB Matt Hasselbeck missed nine games with a back injury last season and he will turn 34 in late September. At some point, they must identify Hasselbeck’s replacement and it wouldn’t appear that’s Seneca Wallace or Charlie Frye, who are on the Seahawks roster.
Seattle GM Tim Ruskell praised Hasselbeck, a three-time Pro Bowl passer with two years left on his contract: “I still think he’s in his prime.
“We have needs, but not priorities,” Ruskell told the Seattle media.
Smoke screen or real deal? That’s a question that gets asked a hundred times a day in draft war rooms around the NFL at this time of the year.
TONY GONZALEZ
Yes, Clark Hunt said Gonzalez wasn’t going anywhere. But that’s easy to say when the NFL is meeting in a southern California resort in March.
It’s quite another when it’s April and teams are picking up the phone and talking about making a deal for the veteran tight end and they are offering draft choices in return.
One of the hardest decisions any team makes is when to jettison a veteran. There’s always that fine line between getting rid of an older player before his production drops, but not getting rid of him too soon.
Now seems the perfect time to deal Gonzalez. First, he doesn’t want any part of the rebuilding process. He showed that by missing last weekend’s mini-camp. Second, he’s made it plain to the Chiefs he wants out, while saying publicly he’ll do whatever is best for the team. Three, Gonzalez has said he will play one, two more years max. Obviously he can change his mind.
It would be a shame if the Chiefs walked away from a team that was willing to deal for Gonzalez in exchange for a first or second round draft pick. SI.com’s Don Banks says the Eagles are interested in making a deal for Gonzalez for a third-round draft choice.
Is it true? It would make sense that Philadelphia would be interested. Certainly, it would qualify under what Gonzalez is looking for: a team with a chance to go to the Super Bowl.
Would Hunt/Pioli pull the trigger for a three?
It’s not hard to believe that Pioli wants a second-round pick, since he does not have a selection in that round. Plus, Tampa Bay gave up a second-round pick in this year’s draft to Cleveland to acquire TE Kellen Winslow. Yes, Winslow is seven years younger than Gonzalez. He’s also never shown the consistency and production that Tony G. has done throughout his career.
Still, for a team like the Eagles that believes in the draft, giving up a second-round pick for a guy who might play one or two more years is a steep price. Last year, Philadelphia gave up a fourth-round pick (No. 115) to Miami for RB Lorenzo Booker, who ended up playing in 10 games and contributing 64 yards in offense. Booker was 24 years old.
Last year, Eagles tight ends L.J. Smith, Brent Celek and Matt Schobel combined for 66 catches for 626 yards and four touchdowns. Andy Reid could give Donovan McNabb some big help in the Philly offense with Gonzalez, especially now that Smith has left, signing as a UFA with Baltimore.
I haven’t been asked and won’t be asked, but here’s a suggestion: trade Gonzalez to the Eagles for the second-round pick (No. 53) and swap spots in the third round; the Chiefs have pick No. 67 and the Eagles own No. 85. That would be a significant jump for the Eagles, who would have two of the first 67 picks, along with veteran players like Gonzalez and OT Jason Peters who they picked up in trades.
That deal would give Pioli three of the first 85. Right now he has two of the first 67.
WHAT’S HAPPENING IN DETROIT WITH THE LIONS
The Detroit Free Press reported Wednesday evening that the Lions have been in negotiations for the last two days with Tom Condon, the agent for Georgia quarterback Matt Stafford.
The Free Press reports the Lions have placed a Friday deadline on the negotiations with Stafford, because they’ve got a deal already worked out with LB Aaron Curry.
Stafford told ESPN he was deep into contract talks with the Lions and thought they were going well, but he denied reports he had told people going to Detroit was a “done deal.” He also said he knew the Lions had another deal going with another player.
The Ann Arbor News reported Wednesday that the Lions have contract terms finalized with Curry.
The News reported the Lions will not allow a decision to go beyond Friday and if a deal isn’t done with Stafford by then, the team will sign Curry and take him with the first overall draft pick.
KEEPING UP WITH AARON CURRY
All through the last few weeks, Curry has been talking with SI.com and doing a draft diary. His final installment went up on Wednesday and included these passages:
After that I went to Kansas City to meet with the Chiefs. I enjoyed my dinner with general manager Scott Pioli and head coach Todd Haley. The next day they were in minicamp, so I didn’t get to do much, although I did meet with the VP of scouting and the director of scouting. I was also able to sit down with my old high school teammate DeMarcus Tyler and just talk about life and some of his NFL experiences. He was a year ahead of me, but we were good friends in high school, and we’d talk every now and then and he’d keep me updated about his life and what it’s like to be in the NFL. He was telling me everything’s going to happen fast and that reliability and responsibility are so important in the NFL. I’m going to heed his advice …
Detroit and Kansas City probably seemed more real than the others because in Detroit I can play middle linebacker and in Kansas City I would be back with DeMarcus Tyler. It would be so much fun flying around together and making plays together. He told me it was a great city and the fans were awesome there because they’re never disappointing
If you want to read the whole diary entry, click here.
ANOTHER FIRED MEMBER OF THE CHIEFS GETS CLAIMED ON WAIVERS
Last week it was WR Will Franklin who was released by the Chiefs and claimed the next day by the Detroit Lions.
This week, it was OT Andrew Carnahan. Released on Tuesday by the Chiefs, he was claimed off the waiver wire by the New York Jets Giants. Carnahan never got on the field for the Chiefs last year, after he was signed off the Jacksonville practice squad near mid-season. During last weekend’s mini-camp, he was the No. 2 left tackle.
I like Bob’s idea re: Gonzalez. The Eagles’ short-yardage problems last year were well-documented; Tony would be a huge help there. Well worth the price, and the Chiefs get their 2nd back.
Bob never said anything about a trade for Brian Waters? I am wondering if they might trade Waters so Pioli could draft one of the left tackles in the draft. Then move Branden Albert back to guard where he was in collage. Then select a RT in one of the later rounds to pretty much fill out the OL for years to come. I don’t see the Chiefs getting a high draft pick in return for Tony getting traded, he would be more of a weapon here.
Keep Tony!! Worry about replacing him when he retires.
It makes zero sense to trade Waters and create another hole in the offensive line that will need to be filled. He needs to get over his feelings being hurt by a busy GM & HC and just play.
It also makes zero sense to move Albert to Guard or RT and waste the 1st round pick we spent on him as a LT in last year’s draft. You don’t draft RT’s or Guards in the 1st round.
I think the best place for Tony is here. If we can’t get anything for him that would make the trade worth while…there is no way we should make one. Tony is too much of a weapon to trade him away for peanuts just so he has what he thinks is a better chance at the Super Bowl. I trust they will do the right thing. It should be interesting.
On the eve of this 2009 draft, I don’t see anything outside the realm of possibility. This is the most unpredictable draft in many years which should also make it the most exciting.
It’s comforting to know that the Chiefs have a GM with a proven track record on the art of the deal which the team hasn’t had under CP for the past 20 years.
I agree, Harold. We need to keep Tony. That is “whatever is best for the team”, as he himself said. Whatever we would get…will not be near enough to replace one of the best ever. We need him right here catching passes from our new QB, WAY more than we need a second or third round pick in the draft.
Some have made a big deal about him missing the mini-camp last weekend. Tony NEVER shows up for those things. I see nothing to “read into” him not being there. It was just business as usual for Tony. He’ll show up ready to work when it’s time…and play his ass off when he does, like always.
I cannot understand this fascination so many people seem to have with moving Branden Albert back to guard (or even RT). Perhaps I am wrong, but it seemed to me the guy had an outstanding season at LT last year by any standard, and especially when you consider that he was a rookie. Why fix it if it ain’t broke?
Well said, Pioli seems to be more active in this area than Carl. As the Chiefs move forward, senior players need to be replaced by the younger or it will always be a roller coaster of good and bad seasons.
If Tony is going elsewhere, the deal must get a 2nd rounder. Waters must be worth something better than a 4th and LJ is worthless.
The way I see it?
Listen, Pioli inherited a team with a lot of holes to fill. But, if he trades Tony…he will be CREATING a hole. Not a good idea, if you ask me. And yes, I know you didn’t.
Of course we’ll need to replace him in the next couple of years. Why rush it? He’s under contract…and he’ll give it his all on the field, no matter what. He’s an awesome player…no one can argue that. So, keep him. Don’t create another void that needs filled.
Right on Spanna. Branden Albert proved he could play LT in the NFL. If we were to draft another T, Albert could play RT as well but OG??? makes no sense at all.
Most NFL personal are already saying that Albert is more than qualified to play LT for the next 10 years. He’s athletic and played very well as a rookie LT. Why move him to OG or RT and change what’s already working well?
If we trade Gonzalez how many people would be pissed off at Pioli?? I mean everyone loved that he came here, so why would you get mad that he traded away the remaining piece that really matters from the Carl Peterson era? I for one am not a pioli fan. I wanted Herm this year, but if he is the boss now, he is going to do what the fans don’t want…
They can pick up a TE in the second round and hope he becomes as good as Gonzo, I also think that Alberts is going to be one of the best LT’s in the NFL, if they keep him there. There are no gaurantees that Monroe would be half as good as Alberts at LT in the NFL. They might end up having to put him in the RT position.
I think we should keep Tony, we dont have that super back comming out of the back field catching the dump off pass when things go south, like we did with priest. Tony is that guy, look at how he helped Thigpen last year. the guy found when he threw Tony’s way more then not he came down with the catch. As far as moving Albert, leave him alone. We can pick up a RT later in the draft if thats what we need, or a guard for that matter. I would like to see them draft the guy that played with Albert, I think you would have a match that went all the way back to college ball if Waters is not going to be a Chief. I really like Waters and thought he was all about team but maybe that was only when he had Shields and Rolf around. I would love to see Shields as some type of coach for the OL. To all the guys that wanted out of KC early, I understand if we were not gunna be any good this year but hey, We will be better, look at what they have added allready. It’s not the Herm show anymore. These guys want to win, and win now! You don’t think any of the guys we have signed want to go somewhere that is gunna suck do you. If you give us a couple of more good years both you Tony and you Brian we can get this thing done. Trust in Paoli and Haley, we do, and more as someone speaking with clout Clark does. He has a lot ridding on them.
Gonzales and LJ to Philadelphia for their 2nd and 4th.
Getting rid of aging veterans while they still have value is a common practice of successful teams in this league.
If Tony stays with the Chiefs this will probably be his last season. How does keeping him for one more season enhance the future of this team? It’s short-term thinking; Pioli and Haley have said they want to build for the long term.
In the short term, Tony is worth more than a 2nd-rounder; but if the Chiefs can get a 2nd-rounder and move Tony to a contending team in the process then it strengthens the Chiefs in the long term and honors Tony’s wishes.
Add 3 needs to the Chiefs long list: tight end, offensive guard and running back.
Hopefully, Pioli will deal pick #3. That will be hard to do, so I am realistic about his chances. I trust him and Haley, so I’d be alright with Tyson Jackson, Jason Smith, Curry…heck, even Crabtree.
Tony Gonzales doesn’t want to be a Chief. IF the Chiefs get a 1st or 2nd round pick - they shouldn’t blink– trade him. Atlanta should offer their 2nd round pick. Can you imagine Matt Ryan with Turner, White and Gonzales as weapons!!
Trading Waters seems like a foregone conclusion. I expect Gonzales and Waters to be traded this Saturday. Pioli, I’m sure, has already identified a LG to replace Waters. (and a TE to replace Gonzales.
I must say, If we can get 2 picks for Tony, a 2 and one of their 5’s, it would be fantastic, but I wouldnt turn down 1 pick either, his value to KC is small compared to a guy like Loadholt who would be there or Sidbury in the 2nd round.
If they can make the trade, then trading back for far less isnt as….it doesnt HAVE to happen.
If they think curry can pass rush(which I do), then they better take him at 3 if they can get 2 picks for tony g….and honestly also move Waters for a 3 and a 6…if we got a 2/5 and 3/6 for those 2 players, then we stack at 1/2/3/3/4/5/5/6/6/7….thats amazing…for giving up a TE who will retire at the end of the year and a guard who is unhappy and 32 years old.
Alex -
Hopefully KC can get a 2 for Gonzales– he can play til he’s 35 or 36. If Atlanta goes defense with their 1, I will be expecting them to deal their 2nd rounder for Tony. (Hopefully I will not be let down.)
I read that Buffalo is interested in Waters, which makes a whole lot of sense in light of them losing Peters at LT. The Bills can pick up a Pro Bowl LG to improve their line for a 3 or so - makes perfect sense.
Arrowhead1978:
Yeah we know you’re not a Pioli fan. You mention it in most of your posts. Get over Herm already will you?? He’s gone, not coming back. His dismissal was for the best.
Secondly, we don’t need to spend a 2nd rounder on a TE to replace Tony G. We drafted a potential replacement last year in Cottam….remember?
Trading Tony G. is probably for the best anyway. We get a 2nd or 3rd rounder in return and Haley isn’t forced into changing his offensive scheme (which is not TE focused) to keep Tony happy if he was to remain a Chief.
I hope I’m wrong, but I think those of you that believe we’ll get a 2nd straight up, or a 2nd + another pick for Tony, are in la la land. If we can get a 3rd or better, I believe the trigger will be pulled. I don’t believe I’d trade Waters though, unless the deal were too good to pass up.
Tony has been a great player & is still very productive. The problem is a TE is a complimentary weapon for a high power offense, not the focal point.
I believe we’re better off building the trenches with younger, quality prospects.
I dont think they are going to get two picks for Gonzo, the most realistic actually would be the 2nd rounder and a swap of the 3rd rounder where we move back in the 3rd.
And yes your right it is common practice in the NFL to unload your veteran players at the end of their careers for successful teams. It’s also common practice for unsuccessful teams to pick up these aging veterans at the end of their careers.
We get rid of Tony G, pick up Zack Thomas, Mike Vrabel
You know I was hoping the lions would pass on stafford so people would try and trade up with us. but now that I heard they signed curry and are waiting to get a better deal from stafford i’m like OH CRAP COME ON let curry fall to us..
Now that he may be unnatainable it’s like the forbidden fruit.
I don’t care that he doesn’t rush the passer, how hard can it be to learn?
mdchief makes a nice trade scenario. LJ and Tony to Philly for a 2nd and 4th. Philly needs a grinder to complement Westbrook who is starting to decline a bit. Philly would be an instant contender on paper with those two added to the equation.
Don’t trade Tony if a 2nd rounder is not involved. Although, I’d probably take a 3rd and a 5th/6th if that was an option. Perhaps even a 3rd this year and a 3rd in 2010. My feelings are that we are a much better team with Tony that without him. Ryan is a nice blocking TE, but the jury is still out on how prepared Cottam is to be a starter.
Pittsburgh is in the mix in the Roscoe Parrish sweepstakes which adds validity to his value in my eyes. I’d like to see KC swap Brian Waters for Parrish. We’d get a Pro Bowl caliber return man (FINALLY) and a decent backup WR to boot.
Finally, if a trade is to be made, I think swapping picks with Seattle (moving down to pick 4) would be in our best interest. Not sure what we’d get for that. A 3rd might be a little too much to ask. I’d pull the trigger on that swap for a 4th rounder this year and a 4th in 2010. Seattle would just be taking Sanchez anyway and we’d still be picking from the same pool at 4 than we would at 3: Monroe/J. Smith, Crabtree, Curry. The only difference would be we’d have to pay them slightly less and we’d get a couple extra 4ths out of the deal. I can see Seattle parting with those picks to ensure they get the QB they want (if they want him that is).
I think Pioli would like to get a pick or two somehow for the 2010 draft. By then he’ll have replaced our scouting department with his own guys and he’d enter that draft with some extra ammo.
Somehow I was thinking this might be a site that would be frequented by KC Chiefs fans. How many actual fans here could live with Gonzalez wearing another team’s jersey? Atlanta Dirty-Birds?? Philly Iggles? Oh, and if either of these teams get Gonzo, who’s to say they don’t trade him to our arch-rivals Oakland or Denver??
What’s his value to the actual fans here? Who’d have a real-life foul reaction to seeing the face of the team for 10 years wearing another team’s jersey? Who’d still pay full price for a ticket to Pioli in whom we all should give our full trust when we get to still see LJ wearing red and gold, but Gonzalez is not scoring touchdowns for us anymore and doing his slam dunk/layup over the goal post?
Scott Pioli, I hope you’re considering feedback from the fans on these questions - as they pay your salary big guy.
SG,
Better get out the smelling salts:
https://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/23/report-gonzalez-traded-to-falcons/
(of course it’s PFT, so take it for what it’s worth)
Yup…Tony G. is gone. Damn.
Traded for a pick in NEXT YEAR’s draft! What’d Colby say about Pioli wanting to wait until he got his own scouting staff in place?
Yep, he’s adding ammunition to a draft that will be scouted and run by his own people. Glad they got a 2nd rounder but it’s too bad we are left with another hole to fill and the same amount of picks to address them.
I doubt his master plan is to stock next years draft with picks, so he can have his own scouting staff.
It’s probably the best offer he had. You don’t honestly think if he had been offered this years 2nd he would have passed, do you?!
*ponders running into a wall - maybe he’ll wake up and the nightmare will be over*
No anonymous, I don’t think Pioli would take next year’s 2nd over this year’s 2nd. HOWEVER, I DO believe that Pioli would take next year’s 2nd over THIS year’s 3rd.
Not sure what they’re thinking this season, but after the draft, it’ll all be a whole lot clearer.
Getting a 2nd under for a 33 year old player who wanted out qualifies as a near steal. Thanks for the great career Tony, and I’m glad we were able to get a vluable pick for him at this stage. This is why Pioli wins executive of the year awards.