Thursday Morning Cup O’Chiefs
There are a lot of Chiefs fans who have nothing good to say about Herm Edwards.
The team’s 6-26 record over the last two seasons painted Edwards as an incompetent in the eyes of some followers and pundits. They did and do not want to cut him any slack despite the efforts he was making to turnaround the team with a complete rebuilding job. Turns out Clark Hunt wasn’t going to cut him any slack either; despite supporting Edwards plan, Hunt allowed Scott Pioli to make the decision to fire the coach.
No matter his record, Edwards deserves credit for the quality of the people he brought to the football team.
Here’s a statistic that is quite stunning in a world of pro football, where players are constantly getting themselves into trouble with law enforcement:
Among the players that joined the team in three seasons under Edwards, only two were charged with any crimes. And, amazingly those two players – Michael Merritt and David Macklin – were arrested this year, after Edwards was let go as head coach.
Merritt was a seventh-round choice in the 2008 NFL Draft, arrested on February 5 in Orlando for suspicion of marijuana possession. Macklin, who was signed as an injury replacement last year, was arrested on March 13 and charged with drunken driving in Newport News, Virginia. Both players were released by the current Chiefs administration just days after they were arrested.
All the players that faced legal trouble between the arrival and departure of Edwards were men that he inherited. From 2006 through this year, there were seven incidents involving five Chiefs players. Along with Merritt and Macklin there was S Greg Wesley who was charged with assault on the bouncer at a nightclub on the Country Club Plaza, DE Jared Allen was arrested twice on driving under the influence charges and RB Larry Johnson was charged twice for simple assault.
The charge against Wesley was dropped. Allen was convicted on two DUI charges and spent two days in the Johnson County Jail and was suspended by the NFL. Johnson pleaded guilty to two counts of disturbing the peace. He was suspended by the NFL for one game and could face further sanctions.
Wesley, Allen and Johnson were all on the roster that Edwards inherited from Dick Vermeil.
These are statistics that any fan can find and follow thanks to the San Diego Union-Tribune, where a data base involving legal problems of NFL players in this decade has been created by the newspaper. Here’s the link to that data base.
Should you visit the site, you’ll find quite a rogues gallery, beginning with the arrest of Denver WR Rod Smith on January 24, 2000 on misdemeanor charges of third-degree assault and harassment for allegedly chocking and hitting the mother of his two children. It runs through the arrest of Buffalo S Donte Whitner who was charged with aggravated disorderly conduct and resisting arrest in an incident outside a Cleveland nightclub last weekend. There are a total of 452 incidents in the data base, or an average from 2000-08 of 48 incidents a year. Already this year there have been 21.
From 2000 through 2005, there were 17 incidents involving players with the Chiefs. Since 2006, there are those seven. That’s quite a difference, and fairly indicative of the trend around the NFL over the last few years, where player misconduct is actually at lower levels than in past seasons.
Those 17 incidents were second most in the league for that time period behind Minnesota with 21. Since 2006, the Vikings total has dropped to eight.
The names involved in those 17 incidents will bring back memories of the problems … Andre Rison, Tamarick Vanover, Eric Warfield, Lew Bush, Junior Siavii, Victor Riley and the earliest incidents involving Wesley and Johnson.
In three years under Edwards there was a concerted effort to do a better job of judging the character of the players being drafted and signed by the club. There was a different level of maturity sought by the Chiefs. It paid off with fewer headlines of Chiefs players in trouble with the law. Other than Johnson, there were no incidents in 2007 and 2008.
Unfortunately, there were not a lot of victories either. Does one translate to another? That’s a subject that has been debated around pro football for years. Sometimes the problem players are ones that have the most physical talent; they’ve never had to mature emotionally because their athletic gifts always got them out of trouble.
As one coach said years ago “you can’t win with 53 choirboys. You have to have some troublemakers. They are sometimes the playmakers.”
But it is possible to win with law-abiding players. The best example is the Philadelphia Eagles, the NFC team with the most victories this decade. According to the data base, there were only six incidents involving the Eagles since 2000.
There are 11 incidents listed for New England and the New York Giants, 14 for Pittsburgh and 16 with Indianapolis. There are six Super Bowls in that group.
At the other end of the spectrum are Minnesota (29), Cincinnati (27), Jacksonville (25), the Chiefs (24) and Denver (23). There are no Super Bowl victories among those five teams.
So yes, it’s possible to win and not have to carry a big budget line for bail money.
For Herm Edwards there were not enough victories; that’s why he’s at home now. But he deserves credit for helping to clean up the Chiefs locker room and raise the character level.
That’s something Pioli/Haley should continue.
KICKERS COMING TO MINI-CAMP
Apparently this weekend at the Chiefs mini-camp, the team will have a tryout for kickers.
That’s not word from the team, but word out of the Columbus Ledger-Enquirer in Columbus, Georgia.
It’s amazing how that wall of secrecy can be breached by a small-town newspaper.
The kickers coming in to work against/with Connor Barth are Carlos Martinez (left) and Mark Myers.
Martinez has bounced around the Arena Football League, and this year with that league on hiatus, he’s kicked for the Columbus Lions of the American Indoor Football Association, where he is averaging 15 points per game. He kicked in four seasons of the Arena League with the Dallas Desperadoes and the Georgia Force (2004-08). Martinez hit 32 of 69 field goal tries and 417 of 464 PAT kicks.
He’s out of Buena Vista University in Storm Lake, Iowa, where he was the NCAA Division III kicker of the year in 2002. He spent some time with the Dallas Cowboys in the off-season of 2007, but did not get to training camp. He’s also spent time with Atlanta and Philadelphia.
Myers spent a month on the New York Jets roster last year in the off-season. He kicked collegiately at Florida Atlanta University, where he hit 43 of 59 FG attempts, with a career-long of 53 yards. He kicked in three games in the Canadian Football League with the Hamilton Tiger Cats in 2006, making five of six FGS.
In a workout for the Chiefs, Martinez said he hit 13 of 13 FG attempts, earning a trip to the mini-camp.
“I’m not officially signed or anything yet, but they asked me back to this veteran’s minicamp,” Martinez told the Ledger-Enquirer. “Hopefully, I’ll get signed after this. I know I can kick at this level. I just have to prove it again.”
PRIME-TIME LEFTOVERS FROM THE SCHEDULE
As we parse the full NFL schedule more things pop out. As would have been expected, the Chiefs do not have any prime-time games, whether Sunday, Monday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday. There are prime-time TV games on all those days in the 2009 schedule.
The Chiefs are one of six teams that got shutout; Cincinnati, St. Louis, Detroit, Seattle and Tampa Bay are the others.
What’s hard to understand is how the Cleveland Browns could have two prime-time games, on a Monday and Thursday night after a 4-12 season. The Green Bay Packers finished last season with a 6-10 record, but they have three prime-time games. Oakland at 5-11 has a prime-time appearance on Monday night in the opening weekend.
And if you want to see what a difference a big-name quarterback can make, check out the night games for Chicago and Minnesota. The Vikings won the division last year, but they don’t have a top passer so they get three prime-time games. The Bears finished behind Minnesota and out of the playoffs last year, but they made the deal for Jay Cutler. That in turn gave Chicago five prime-time games.
CHIEFS ORIGINAL PLAY-BY-PLAY VOICE DIES
When the Dallas Texans moved to Kansas City in 1963, the original duo that handled the radio broadcasts of the games was Merle Harmon and Bill Grigsby. That pair worked together for the first season. Before the ‘64 season, Harmon went on to work for ABC, while Grigsby was joined by Tom Headrick.
Harmon passed away on Wednesday in Arlington, Texas. He was 82 years old. Over his career, besides the Chiefs, he had been the radio voice of the New York Jets and in baseball he worked the games of the Kansas City A’s, Atlanta Braves, Minnesota Twins, Milwaukee Brewers and Texas Rangers.
SIGNINGS AND MOVEMENT AROUND THE NFL
JAGUARS – signed RB Maurice Jones-Drew to a contract extension for five years and $31 million with over $17 million in guaranteed payments.
PACKERS – signed NT Brian Soi (last with NY Giants).
RAMS – signed WR Horace Grant.
SAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY …
Born on April 16, 1982 in the Bahamas was current Chiefs wide receiver Devard Darling.
He joined the team last year as an unrestricted free agent from the Baltimore Ravens. Darling caught 17 passes for 247 yards and one touchdown in 16 games last year with the Chiefs.
He played in 30 games over four seasons with the Ravens after joining the team as a third-round choice in the 2004 NFL Draft out of Washington State.
Get over Herm.
Herm is a nice guy. He was a terrible coach. Great next door neighbor horrible football coach.
Herm is a good cornerback/secondary coach and college scout but thats his limit, never was or will be a head coach again in the NFL. Done, Over, Next!
As Pioli stated in his first time addressing KC it’s all about:
“The Right 53″
Nice angle on the Herm tenure, Bob. It’ll be interesting if Herm gets another shot in the league at some coaching or front office job. In my opinion, he’s too vibrant a personality and role model to not be included in the league in some capacity.
Print this and store in the the Bottom of the bird cage.
Good article Bob. Thanks for the link to the legal problems data base. I wonder what the legal record of Curry is….if the current administration holds true and continues to get the type of players that will stay out of trouble…and if Curry has a history of trouble….would they draft him or not? Does anybody know anything about the character of Curry?
My sympathies to Harmon’s family. I wish I could hear those old radio broadcasts from the earliest days of the Chiefs. It would not sound totally foreign because Bill Grigsby was part of the team. I would love to hear the complete Chiefs Superbowl broadcasts. I wonder if they still exist.
Dag nabbit…I forgot my name again. Here it is again. I really just wanted you to read it twice
Good article Bob. Thanks for the link to the legal problems data base. I wonder what the legal record of Curry is….if the current administration holds true and continues to get the type of players that will stay out of trouble…and if Curry has a history of trouble….would they draft him or not? Does anybody know anything about the character of Curry?
My sympathies to Harmon’s family. I wish I could hear those old radio broadcasts from the earliest days of the Chiefs. It would not sound totally foreign because Bill Grigsby was part of the team. I would love to hear the complete Chiefs Superbowl broadcasts. I wonder if they still exist.
Well, Bob. Now that you’ve proven that quality people and quality football players are not mutually exclusive terms, I have to ask what the point of that blurb about Herm was. Who cares if he made a consciencious effort to sign guys of good standing and moral character? If they can’t play football, what good is that? I would take Vermeil or Schottenheimer, either one with their off-the-field-troubled players over one more game of Herm and his inept ON-the-field-troubled players. I’m not saying I want the Chiefs to become the Eastern branch of the Oakland Raiders, quite the contrary. All I am saying is that Andy Reid went after the same sort of character in his players as Herm, but he got the job done. I’ll call Herm the next time I’m trying to get a group of volunteers together to go feed the homeless. I’ll be calling on Todd Haley this year for my football.
In Pioli we trust!
Herm ..who?
It is all about the TEAM……….and………..
THE RIGHT 53 2009
In Pioli I trust
Aaron Curry is said to have outstanding character.
I read one article where Curry was asked why he worked out at Wake Forest’s pro day, when he’d already had a tremendous combine. Curry said more NFL scouts/personnel would come to the Wake’s pro day if he worked out, therefore, more evaluators would see his teammates. So, a big part of his reason was for his teammates.
Never had any trouble with the law. Has faced some adversity, due to a short period of homelessness his family endured while Curry was in high school. I think he has a degree already. And, as was just in the news, Curry has invited a boy, who is battling leukemia, to attend the Draft in NYC with him this weekend.
A real “team first” guy.
^^^ Whoops…attend the draft not this, but next weekend.
So Bob compares 17 legal issues in *6* years to 7 issues in *3* years! Nice try to make Herm *seem* better in some way. Those numbers are completely consistent with a constant rate under simple small number statistical analysis.
No one doubts that Herm is, in general, a good character guy (except that he blames everyone around him before himself). He’s just a terrible head coach. He’s never even been a coordinator, much less a successful one. He was in way over his head. I don’t blame him for it, I’d take a head coaching job if someone offered it and I’d suck at it because i’d be in over my experience level.
Josh,
You’re right on the money. Herm was a great guy and a good motivational speaker, he just sucked heavily as a head coach of a football team. He’s a good evaluator of talent sometimes, but he makes poor decisions in critical times ( both in the game and out of it). I trust what Pioli / Haley are trying to do here. Time will tell how good they really are but I doubt they will be as inept as Herm was. I still wish Herm the best of luck working with ESPN, I just have a hard time listening to what he’s babbling about and not dismissing it without assuming he’s as incompetent there as he was here….
I agree with ArrowheadHawk and Josh. Herm was a nice guy, but as the old saying goes “nice guys finish last”, and that was pretty much the case with the Chiefs the past two years.
I can’t wait to hear Carlm’s comment’s on this one. I’m sure it will be along the lines of “Herm created a great young team…Clark is setting us up for failure by allowing Pioli to bring in all these veterans…the sky is falling, the sky is falling…blah blah blah…sour grapes.”
just a thought on the draft, maybe the Chiefs should select Mark Sanchez and take the guess work out of the top part of the draft. Then they could trade him during the first round to one of the QB starved teams. Not moving down, but adding extra picks through the trade.
Little late for your april fools joke Bob.
Herm brought us ‘R2P2′
This is the reason he rides the short bus to work everyday.
Can you trade someone you haven’t signed?
I think Denver has their eye on Sanchez. Denver fans certainly do.
Amen, Josh
alright devil dog if ur not gonna contribute to the topic just dont write anything dont just come in and try to put ur faggy lil catch phrase and leave you just keep trying to get that thr right 53 crap stuck in everybodys head so it takes off in to a big fan thing with everybody wearing the shirts that say the right 53 and its not like you made it up anyway pioli did you hack.
but ANYWAY! herms not a bad coach honestly i think he just has a young team what he should have done tho was get some other veteran players like what piolis doing a bad coach doesnt coach 6 years and take his team to the playoffs 3 of the 6 he would probably still be around if it wasnt for a new gm but im kinda excited to see what the new guy does.
a-hole,
Are you kidding?
Mike Martz took his team to the playoffs three times in five years. Would you call him a good coach or the benefactor of amazing players? Just because you manage to get a team into the playoffs doesn’t mean you’re a great coach. There have been plenty of nominal coaches that have gotten their teams to the playoffs over the years. Your logic is flawed.
I think Herm would be a great addition to the NFL staff. He would be an ideal assistant to Gene Washington to advise on disciplinary matters and conduct training for new players.
Nice picture of Devard Darling Bob. Guess it was the only one of him catching a pass last year though.
Curry is carrying a 10 year old kid that has leukemia to the draft with him, that oughta say something about his character. But it doesn’t say that he can play an outside backer in a 34 or rush the passer.
If your whole goal is to be just good enough to squeak into the playoffs and hope you’re good enough to luck your way into the Super Bowl, hell yeah, Herms your man! Unfortunately KC wants and needs a team that is a threat to contend for a championship every year, so Herm had to go.
Its the same with how even after a super bowl Martz got credit for a Rams teams handed to him by Vermeil and Gansz.
I think he really set this team up for the future in a lot of ways, bringing in good character guys is important, they tend to last longer in this league.
Curry was only asked to rush the passer a few times a game, there is nothing with how he plays that says he cant rush as well as an Orakpo…When he did Blitz, he was running through blockers.
Curry has the agility to handle angles and closing speed to rush the passer from a 3-4 OLB position. See what he can do on the right side, but I’d put him on the left side and try it.
Vrabel on one side, Curry on the other– a terrific upgrade for the 31st ranked defense.
You Curryites better check that mans 3 cone drill time again.
And comparing anyone to Orakpo doesn’t impress me in the least. He’s is this drafts biggest bust potential!
anony - You ought to check the times for ‘backers who are 6′2″ 255 lbs.
Besides…3 cone drill? You gotta be kidding me. Especially, when his other measurables were off the charts!
BTW, I’ll be happy with whoever the Chiefs take at 3 though.
Its amazing that anonymous has better insight on the draft than all the draft prognosticator since we don’t know who he really is how can we judge . If he makes a fool of himself on this draft he well just change his blog name . At least he not wasting all his time writing in sentences that only made sense to him .
While I prefer we take one of the tackles with the #3 pick, I wouldn’t be upset with Curry. He projects to be a perfect fit as the Strong side backer in the 4-3 under the Chiefs will be utilizing. Same position as what Vrabel will likely play.
The Right 53 begins with the Right 22 and does not end in the county lock-up. LJ, take notes man, you might learn something in this blog.
There are some guys here that are just flat THICK!
What idiot expert have you bought hook, line, and sinker? Kyper? PPPLEEEASEEEE!
Get off of ESPN and broaden your horizons.
The people that have actually held a position as a talent evaluator, have Curry as a top notch mike lb in a 43 not an outside lb in a 34.
I have no particular malice for Curry, if the Chiefs were drafting @ 10-12, where the defensive rookie of the year was selected last year, and the Chiefs had no plans of making the transition to a 34, that would be a good value pick.
If I were gonna reach at 3, and pass on J. Smith or E.Monroe, which I wouldn’t, I’d reach for a guy like a NT, Raji outta BC, or DE/LB Barwin outta Cincy.
You go right ahead and buy all the hype, I bet you love the Z. Thomas signing too, huh? A guy that is hit away from IR.
Run! Don’t walk to get your Chiefs tickets!
Sucker!!
PS
How do you feel about soccer?
LMFAO!
You know, as frightening as it may be, I’m going to have to agree with Rinanonymous. Curry would make a good ILB, but you don’t take an ILB at #3. I’d also have to agree (glup) with him that Raji or Barwin would be better for a reach, but my favorite reach from #3 would be Everett Brown from Florida St. Dude has some pass rush skills that could make an impact right from the start of the season. I don’t think we need to tie up more first day picks on our O-line. I think we could address that in rounds 3-5.
RedandGoldRice says
“I’m going to have to agree with anonymous.”
Of course you do.
That just speaks well of your ability to recognize intelligence.
lukat mapeeno or whatever ur name is hey dumbass isnt martz the guy who got his team in 2 the superbowel they losy but haley is part of the reason the cardinals got 2 the superbowel and they lost 2 and if getting in 2 the playoffs half of ur head coaching carrer makes u a bad coach jesus what do u think makes a good coach and ur stupid ass oppinion is flawed more than mine
a-hole,
It’s called “punctuation”. Use it.
I never said Haley was a great head coach. He’s never been one before. Being an offensive coordinator for the NFC champions and being the head coach of a team with one of the most potent offenses in NFL history and yet managing to lose to an underdog in the Super Bowl are two completely different things. If you can’t see that for yourself, punctuation might not be your biggest problem.
Herm wasn’t a good head coach; he had a pathetic win-loss record, he was mediocre at best in the playoffs, his clock management skills made Vermeil look like Belichick and for being the “talent guru” that a lot of people chalked him up to be, it’s hard to name one “can’t miss” draft pick or free agent aquisition that became a Chief under his reign of terror.
Before you go about attempting to refute an opinion someone has made, it might be a good idea to make sure you understand what they’re saying.
Hey “a-hole”….you’re not a Chiefs fan are you? You sound an awful lot like a guy at Broncosfreaks.com who calls himself CasinoRoyal. Why don’t you learn to type with punctuation and write complete sentences that are not made up of 90% slang? Most people don’t talk like that and have a hard time reading it. Now don’t bother to respond….I don’t read your stuff for the above reasons. Besides….this is so far down the list most people are not reading it anyway. I can say anything here….and maybe one or two people will see it….that’s all. Great googly moogly….why am I bothering?
ahole…..
I am glad to know that I still get under your skin. TR53 starts with TR22!!
It is all about the TEAM……….and……….
THE RIGHT 53 2009
In Pioli I trust
devil dowag yeah u and ur cornyness do get under my skin
harold c wtf r u doing on a donkeys chat site if ur a cheifs fan anyway u no the user names and everything
lukat mapeeno ME sOOO sorrII bout MI punKYOUashun
fags
I can’t understand you. Don’t ever take up writing.