The Snap That Changed The Game & Notes

I liked the effort I saw on Sunday, they just kept coming back and over coming adversity to stay in the game. I would like to see some better play calling in the second half to keep the chains moving, and less three and outs. Still it’s great to see the effort being put out by this team over the last three weeks. GO CHIEFS!

I would appreciate someones opinion. Bowe is a 1st rounder. Bradley got released by Chicago. Yet in this “new” offense of Chans, Bradley is becoming the go to WR and of course Tony is Tony. Bowe is becoming a second or third option. Could be another less than stellar pick by carl, herm and company? I still see a need to draft a WR in 2009.

LARRY JOHNSON . When KC beat Denver , it was not close . Hes going to be there , and if its 10 degrees and an ice storm , so will I .

I hear that train a comming , HEs comming around the bend .

Bradley got released due to injuries.

Dont see Darling or Webb on this team in the future. Franklin is still an unknown. I agree chiefs need more recievers (if nothing else, but for depth and development)…though it is no longer a pressing need.

The confusion from Barth and Colquit on the botched snap is a direct reflection on the coaching staff. Once again, Herm Edwards didn’t have his team prepared for a game event. The game is to big for Herm as a Head Coach. Those fans who are satisfied with just competing, will love Herm. Those who realize that it is largely coaching that makes the difference in a close game will see that Herm is never going to be the guy on a winning team.

“tm1946 says:
I would appreciate someones opinion. Bowe is a 1st rounder. Bradley got released by Chicago. Yet in this “new” offense of Chans, Bradley is becoming the go to WR and of course Tony is Tony. Bowe is becoming a second or third option. Could be another less than stellar pick by carl, herm and company? I still see a need to draft a WR in 2009.”

I don’t know if it would be possible for me to disagree more strongly. It’s this type of rush to judgement to brand all of the Chiefs’ draft choices as busts that continually makes me shake my head. Dwayne Bowe’s numbers thus far project out to 85 catches for 1,090 yards and 5 touchdowns for the season. Those numbers are in spite of an offense that could barely move the ball until 3 weeks ago. 85 catches, 1,090 yards, 5 touchdowns. That follows up a rookie season of 70 catches, 995 yards, and 5 touchdowns.

A “less than stellar pick”? Ridiculous.

—Tim

I would guess the reason Bradley is getting more catches is probably because he’s still somewhat unknown, whereas Bowe has made a name for himself. If you were defending the Chiefs, would you focus more attention on Bowe, who has been KC’s #1 WR since drafted last year, or on the new guy who’s been a Chief for all of 3 weeks. Everybody knows what Bowe can do. If given the opportunity, he could be a game changer. Bradley is starting to be a VERY solid #2 guy. One that we’ve desperately needed for a long time.

When considering how the Chiefs have acquired Bradley, I came to the realization that this Chiefs administration is really starting to find some hidden gems in the most unlikely places. We get Thigpen, a released 7th round pick. Bradley, released due to injuries. Page and Carr, late round draft selections. I’m sure there are more. Isn’t this how great teams are born? Solid contributors from the low rounds/undrafted guys? (ie..Giants last year.) I realize there’s still some doubters as to Dorsey’s potential, but I see a guy who is getting better by the game. Our top picks have been much better with Herm, and the lower round/free agent groups have really been a pleasant surprise.

tm1946,
Bradley has 4 years in the league under his belt. This is Bowe’s 2nd year. Bowe needs to improve his consistency, but the things he can do with breaking tackles and catching difficult balls, no one else on the team can do. Bowe is still on pace to break 1000 yards this year. I’ll bet a far higher % of Bowe’s receptions go for first downs, too.

That being said, I’ve already considered the idea that Bradley might take over as #1 and have Bowe become our #2 WR…but might their production decline if they change positions and roles? Right now this is working well, and no reason to mess with it.

But the idea of Bowe being a “less than stellar” pick? That’s just crazy talk. Having Bradley be a surprise performer does nothing to diminish the fact that Bowe is already awesome and should get awesomer.

aPauled are you kidding? The botched extra point was Herm’s fault. If you make ridiculous claims like that you will be ridiculed yourself.

I mean have you ever seen a better job of coaching? The best coaching staff in that stadium was so obvious a blind man could have seen it. You Herm haters should open up your eyes, you are missing something special!

Something that has gone without mention as of yet….how about the play of Thigpen? He seems very poised. There were a couple of mistakes that can easily be credited to youth, but I am starting to think we might have found something here. I hope he can stay healthy and play well the rest of the year, I’d like to watch this story develope as the Chiefs enter into the offseason and eventually into the 2009 Draft. If Thigpen can prove himself a worthy starter, we can use our early draft picks on positions that are a little more easy to judge coming out of college. Right now I think we would have a top three pick. In fact, nfl.com has us as having a #2 pick overall at this time….

http://www.nfl.com/standings?category=league

While this may not be a great quaterback class coming out of college, there are bound to be some great players out there in any number of other positions. I think with a little help in a few areas we could be a true threat as soon as next season.

How many teams have changed their long snapper mid-season? I doubt any more than 1 or 2. Direct result? Bad snap, missed PAT. Coach’s fault the original long snapper got hurt? NO WAY. This team is finding way’s to be very competitive even with a paramount of injuries. THAT is good coaching.

Talk about the obvious. The best coaching staff was the one that walked out of the stadium with a win. When your team isn’t clicking on all cylinders a good coaching staff gets just enough to win. That’s what the Chargers did.

Did Herm cause the bad snap? Obviously not…missed point. Point is that Herm didn’t prepare his players for this event. Just as they aren’t prepared to win a close game. Competitive teams have made that little extra preparation to squeeze out a win. That is the difference between winning and losing in a competitive environment. Herm will always be out coached and out prepared.

“True” Red & Gold:

I don’t know if you should be patting yourself on the back because you feel that Herm Edwards out-coached Norv Turner. That’s NOT something to write home about…even if it were true. If Herm and his staff had actually been better, then they would have come away with a “W”.

I don’t agree that the botched extra point was DIRECTLY Herm’s fault. He didn’t go out there and snap the ball, and at some point, you have to hope that the guys you put on the field can produce. What I can blame him for was the asinine “go for two” call at the end of the game. Why compound a problem? Yes, this team has “nothing to lose” and that is because they’ve been coached to be losers. These guys have been stripped of valid veteran leadership and been indoctrinated into the “Play to Win the Game” Cult mentality.
In the “go for two” situation, we saw again Herm’s inability to manage a game. Instead of taking a time out to make sure that everyone was on the right page and to allow Chan to pull some trickery out of his magic playbook, Herm treated going for two like any other play. THE GAME WAS ON THE LINE!
Those that buy the “well, we’re a young team” crap that he throws at us every week and say “well, then it’s okay that we’re losing…as long as it’s close” are the ones who should be ridiculed. Why settle for mediocrity? Why not demand the same thing from a head coach that has had three years to get his feet underneath him that we demand from our troubled all-pro running back? If we’re going to get all over LJ for dogging it on the field (and I’m just talking about his work ethic, not his off-the field hijinks) and not playing with heart, why are we allowing Herm to stand on the sideline emotionless, making half-assed attempts at coaching.

Let’s face it, the man is the poster-child for Viagra…he can’t finish to save his life.

Going for 2 was the right move at the time, in my opinion. When the team was moving down the field, before they scored, I turned to my friend and said, “If they score, I want them to go for 2.”

It’s classic “fan” mentality. If Herm goes for it and makes it, he’s patted on the back for having the guts to go for the win and put the game on the line. He went for it and didn’t make it, so that makes him a moron who should have played it safe and kicked the PAT. You guys spend so much time and energy bashing Herm for “being too safe” and “too conservative” and “not being aggressive”. Herm goes for the victory in what I and many others feel is the right move, and when he comes up short, suddenly you all cry about him “not making the safe move”. Unbelievable.

Just one of the many reasons why I can only stomach coming here every so often.

—Tim

Josh, good thing you are not making the calls. Our depleted D played their asses off and to put them out there to win the game would have been idiotic. Going for 2 was the right call, the play called for the 2 pointer is really the only thing that can be debated in this case, funny very little talk about that!

I don’t think he’s too conservative, I just think he’s a horrid coach who cannot fathom what is the right thing to do in the right circumstance. He’s a deer caught in the headlights, a poor man’s bootleg Tony Dungy and a man still living the “Miracle in the Meadowlands” every day of his life.

For me, this was not a ‘classic “fan” mentality’ as you put it, Tim. I would never, never, never NEVER expect anyone to go for two in that situation…especially without calling a time out to make sure everything is “perfect.” That’s not gutsy, it’s stupid. It’s the move a man makes when he is so scared about losing his job, he will do anything he can to hold onto it. Poor management equals poor performance, and Herm Edwards has yet to show he knows how to manage a game from start to finish.

Tim,

Well said! It is getting harder to come here. The bums on here are so predictable in their inconsistency!

“True” Red & Gold,

That’s why I said Herm should have called a time out to talk it over instead of just signaling for “two” and running the play like it was 1st and goal with 14:40 left in the first quarter.

You can think that it was a great idea to go for it, I’m going to think it was a horrible idea, and never the twain shall meet. I think you have to agree that the play-calling in that situation and the management of the game at that point is suspect at best, and downright poor at worst.

Incorrect, Josh. The Chiefs’ 2-point attempt to win the game yesterday was the 4th such attempt in the NFL since they instituted the 2-point try. The other 3 times it was attempted, it was successful. It’s not a “desperate” move. I don’t believe for a moment that–had Herm kicked the PAT, lost the coin-toss to begin the OT period, and the defense allowed the Chargers to march down the field and end the game without the Chiefs having an offensive possession–you would have been saying, “Well, at least I’m happy that Herm kicked the PAT instead of going to the win.” No, I’m sure you would have had many other things to complain about, with very little positive to say.

I guess none of the positive aspects of the game can be called a “direct reflection” of Herm and the coaching staff, only the shortcomings, correct? It says nothing about Herm and the coaches that the Chiefs were in a position to win the game while fielding a defense featuring Brian Johnston, Wallace Gilberry, Rocky Boiman, Weston Dacus, John McGraw, Maurice Leggett, and a corner (David Macklin) who was unemployed a week ago? Only the failures can be credited to the caoching staff, right? Nothing good, right?

Yes, my friend, I’m afraid it most certainly IS classic “fan” mentality. Misdirected frustration and an almost supernatural ability to never be satisfied or see the value or positivity in *anything*.

—Tim

True Red & Gold says: Well said! It is getting harder to come here. The bums on here are so predictable in their inconsistency!

Back at you. Between True and findthe, no one can post thoughts here without being attacked. The trolls have taken over for a single mindset community.

“Josh says: I think you have to agree that the play-calling in that situation and the management of the game at that point is suspect at best, and downright poor at worst.”

I certainly don’t have to agree with that. When the decision was made to go for 2, I turned to my friend who was watching the game with me and said, “I want to see Thigpen roll out to the right, with the option to run it in or throw it.” The Chargers defended the bootleg well, and benefited greatly from their ability to hold and mug Tony Gonzalez in the endzone. It was the play I wanted to see from the Chiefs.

—Tim

If I remember correctly they didn’t have a timeout, but I may be mistaken. Regardless, going for 2 was the only logical choice and I’m sure every player appreciated the emphatic decision-making to do so. Why leave the outcome to a coin flip? If they lost the toss, their defense could not have even come close to stopping SD again. They had no bodies left. He gave the guys a chance to determine the outcome on their own. Didn’t agree with the play, (2 receivers?), but at least they tried. I thought they would roll Thigpen out with 4 receivers in the end zone.

As far as the articles point about the calls, the one that mistified me was the “non-review” of the Bowe catch on the final drive. Now, it turned out not to be an issue, but it could have been. Then to immediately review a clear catch by Bradley was preposterous. THAT needs to be looked at by the NFL. Even the announcers couldn’t believe it.

Given the state of our defense and the fact they were moving the ball at will the 2nd half, going for two was the right call.

For those clamoring for Herm to call timeout to discuss the play selection, have you considered that we used our LAST timeout after the 2nd rush up the middle failed?

I think folks are really reaching to blame Herm for something this morning.

aPauled – Herm’s a bad coach because he didn’t prepare his players for a botched snap? How many times do you see a botched snap in the NFL result in a successful play? Are all those other teams unprepared, too?

Also, what makes you think people weren’t on the same page on the two-pointer? Everyone seemed to know what they were supposed to do. If you read the newspaper accounts, the decision to go for two had been made before the touchdown happened. What makes you think the play wasn’t already chosen as well?

B in SC – That whole sequence of reviewed/non-review catches was pathetic. And I don’t want to hear any SD fan complaining about a pass interference call after the way we got jobbed on that Bowe reception.

BTW – The last two anonymous posts are mine.

“B in SC”, I am right there with you when it comes to the officials’ refusal to review the Bowe catch there near the end of the game. I was jumping up and down in front of my television, at a loss for words when it became clear that the officials weren’t going to review the play. They were quick to review the previous play, when Will Franklin narrowly missed a sideline catch, but inexplicably wouldn’t review Bowe’s catch, which looked to be good according to the replay. Follow that up with their “review” of Bradley’s OBVIOUS catch, and it adds up to a cavalcade of silliness from the officials.

—Tim

I’m not saying that there wasn’t anything positive about yesterday’s game. Thigpen is turning out to be quite a catch. Bradley continues to make Devard Darling look like an afterthought. I have no qualms with any of the players out on the field. They played their asses off and showed a lot of character. I just think it’s sad that Herm took a situation that could have turned out to be very positive (a la Tyler’s first career tying/winning scoring drive) and threw it in the trash.

Herm has preached and preached about how defense wins games. The defense was on a roll at the time the game ended. They were holding the Bolts explosive (#2 in the league) offense at bay. Why then, would you not play your hot hand, and see what your defense can do? As far as the “I’m sure every player appreciated the emphatic decision-making…”, I would ask who saw Tony Gonzalez on the side line after the game? He had a look of sheer shock and disgust on his face. I can’t believe, with the body language he was showing, that he was anywhere near appreciative of the decision.

re: “Herm’s a bad coach because he didn’t prepare his players for a botched snap?”

No, it’s just another example of why Herm is a bad coach. Herm is out prepared every week by every coach he faces.

Another is the justification for going for 2. “becaused the defense was worn out”. Why was the D worn out? Oh yeah, because Herm’s philosophy is to get a lead and sit on it playing defense. The obvious result is that the D gets worn out. Great philosophy there Herm.

aPauled, as long as you attack the coach or anyone else you are open to attacks. If you throw stones you better be prepared to duck.

I believe in our coach and I will attack anyone that attacks him. I have done it from the start and will continue to do it.

True Red & Gold says:
“aPauled, as long as you attack the coach or anyone else you are open to attacks. If you throw stones you better be prepared to duck.”

Spoken like a true troll. No facts. No original thoughts. Just attacks.

Josh did you even watch the game? Tony was frustrated at the mugging and the failure of the refs to call it. He would have been the first to raise his hand to go for it.

Herm cares about his players, his Defense was depleted after playing their asses off. It would have been wrong to expect them to go out there and win this game, especially considering they were on the field 10 more minutes than the offense. I love the fact that Herm asked his OFFENSE to win this game!!

aPauled,

It doesn’t matter what we say. You cannot argue with those who do not want to listen. However, these are the same people who were excited when this team went 9-0 in 2003 and then made no hesitation to throw Vermeil under the bus when Herm came to town and said that he couldn’t win with what he had been given. They believe whatever King Carl’s extensive PR system feeds them.

“True”,

And that just proved my point. Thanks.

Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. All of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.

AND NOW (much to the satisfaction Josh – sister of that other Spice Girl Posh) – Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!

And here he comes! I knew you couldn’t stay away, Rin!!

Josh, I don’t think Tony Gonzalez’s disgust had to do with Herm’s decision to go for 2, or the play they called in doing so. I could be wrong, but I believe Tony was upset with the officials’ disregard for the way the Chargers’ defense was holding him on the final play.

aPauled, the Chiefs’ defense was “worn out” because we had 2nd and 3rd string players in the game, with no depth to spell them. The defense had given up over 400 yards in the game, and had given up the Chargers’ go-ahead touchdown after a long drive.

I know you are dead-set on blaming Herm for everything that goes wrong, and you enjoy the luxury of throwing a blanket statement of “Herm isn’t prepared” over every failure, but that simply isn’t always the case.

—Tim

re: “the Chiefs’ defense was “worn out” because we had 2nd and 3rd string players in the game, with no depth to spell them.”

You don’t think that it had anything to do with the D playing 35 minutes while the Offense was on for 25? We only had 2 First Downs in the second half until the last drive. Herm once again smothered the O at halftime and the D was on the field the entire second half. Tired guys get hurt. Tired guys get beat. This is not the “football gods” frowning on the Chiefs 3 weeks in a row. This is a very definable pattern with Herm Edwards.

“Josh says:
aPauled,

It doesn’t matter what we say. You cannot argue with those who do not want to listen. However, these are the same people who were excited when this team went 9-0 in 2003 and then made no hesitation to throw Vermeil under the bus when Herm came to town and said that he couldn’t win with what he had been given. They believe whatever King Carl’s extensive PR system feeds them.”

Actually, I believe what my eyes show me, not what I’m told by “King Carl’s extensive PR system”. I know you’d like to think I’m unintelligent and unable to think for myself, but that’s just not the case. Sorry.

I in no way, shape, or form “threw Vermeil under the bus” following his departure. In fact, I rejected the Chiefs’ organization’s arguments that the Vermeil/Saunders offense was somehow responsible for the team’s shortcomings from 2001-2005. I thought it was abundantly silly when several Chiefs folks tried to propagate the idea that the defense of Vermeil’s teams was horrendous because the offense “scored too much and too often”. So I’ll go ahead and count myself out of that group you’re alluding to.

I see 3 or 4 victories coming for this team before the year is out. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. And I know many people would love nothing more than to see the Chiefs lose every game, because they want Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards fired, and they want the Chiefs to have the worst record possible in order to get the highest draft choice possible, so that the Chiefs can draft a quarterback who might play poorly enough for them to have more things to complain about. I, on the other hand, want my team to win games. I want Tyler Thigpen to perform well enough to answer the quarterback question, so that the Chiefs can consider that hole “filled” and move on to using their draft choices to fill other needs (offensive line, linebacking corps, etc.).

Call me stupid if you choose, say I take “whatever ‘King Carl’ feeds me”, do what you like, my friend. Is Herm’s job on the line based on the 2nd half of this season? I certainly think so. I simply think it has much more to do with the consistently disappointing play of the defense, as opposed to “lack of preparation”. Who knows, maybe I’m just a moron.

—Tim

aPauled,

I think you hit the nail on the head. This game, like the last three, like the five before them, like the sixteen last year, have not been managed well.

To those apologists of the “Play to Win the Game” Cult: Management comes from where? Not the players. Tyler Thigpen doesn’t call his own plays, Donnie Edwards doesn’t call in his own defensive packages and Connor Barth doesn’t decide whether he’s going to go out on the field to tie the game or not. Management comes from your coaching staff. Who does your coaching staff ultimately answer to? Your head coach. If your head coach isn’t managing the game well, how in the gracious name of God do you defend him? Who do you throw under the bus week after week so as to save his non-deserving ass?

I love it — If they had WON , there would be about half as many coments . I see a whole sea of fans fighting out there — STOP –not with each other,or not till the games over . Win three in a rowe and Itl be —– ALL they do is win – win – win ,boring ! Jim — Oh = DONT STEP IN FRONT OF ME !

People’s optimism is great, but I can’t consider Herm the answer until there are some actual facts and stats to believe so. No one ever provides any that I’ve seen. As a scientist, I go where the data takes me, and there are a lot of stats and facts saying Herm is a poor solution to our problems.

There are two new and very important facts that show just how much a coach and management can hold a team back:

1) Our offense suddenly got better 3 weeks ago as soon as we abandoned the Herm offensive philosophy, despite resorting to backups in many positions

2) Atlanta and Miami both got dramatically better in one offseason, due in large part to a change in coaching and managment.

I’ve heard some people try to write off Atlanta and Miami’s success as simple short-term “patchwork” and that we’re doing something better for long-term “greatness”. That’s just not true. Both those teams are young (Miami the 5th youngest in the league according to the NFL) and both teams have been stockpiling draft picks the last two years just like we have (actually, Atlanta has had more, and better, picks than us those years).

Well it’s about damn time TimInKC and ILChiefsFan came back WELCOME BACK!!!
Don’t let ppls opinions keep you away, if you think what some one is saying is wrong, IT”S YOUR RESPONSIBILITY as hard core CHIEFS FANS to point it out!!! LOL

IT WAS THE RIGHT CALL! I kinda think he was asking his asst Coaches their opinions, any one notice they showed herm 2 or 3 times talking to different assistants during the last cpl. of plays in that drive, and there is nothing wrong with that imo.

PS I too was hoping he would go for 2 even before they had the TD slapping my wife several times on the leg (much to her annoyance) saying “if they get the TD they should go for the 2 point conversion.”

And I too was very confused by the decision(or lack there of)from the replay booth on the Bowe catch!
You know the Refs have been really messed up this yr.

Tim,

I apologize if you think that everything I said was directed specifically at you. Not the case. I’m like you. I would LOVE to see the Chiefs win out. If that happened, I’m assuming Herm would keep his job. In all honesty, if Herm were able to get this team winning, and prove me wrong, I would be okay with that. I am a Chiefs fan first and foremost. I want them to win more than anything. I also don’t think they need to spend a draft pick on a QB…at least not a first rounder. I really think Tyler’s the man. I’ve thought that since day one. I’m not going to say that Atlanta didn’t throw me for a loop, because like everyone else, it did. I questioned whether or not he was capable of leading this team. I don’t question that anymore. All I needed from him was proof. That’s all I need from Herm. If Herm can prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can manage a game from start to finish and have success on a consistant basis, I’ll buy in. The problem is, I don’t see it. I don’t see his draft pics (this class is obviously still too early to call) panning out. I don’t see the quality of free-agent aquisitions I expect to see. I don’t see the passion. I don’t see the ownership I expect from a head coach. When we lose, I am sick of hearing “we’re a young team”. I want to hear “I think there are some decisions that I could have made differently”.

The man just doesn’t have me convinced that he is anything but a ruse and someone that every Jets fan is laughing at us for having been silly enough to give up a draft pick for.

I would love for Herm to prove me wrong. I will be the first one out here to eat crow and tell you all that I was the moron and that I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about…I just don’t see it happening.

“JohnNdallas says: I kinda think he was asking his asst Coaches their opinions, any one notice they showed herm 2 or 3 times talking to different assistants during the last cpl. of plays in that drive, and there is nothing wrong with that imo.”

Oh, I’m sure that was just Herm being indecisive and unprepared. It had nothing to do with him taking the opinions of his staff or doing his due dilligence before making the call. It was just Herm doing something wrong.

Of course, if Herm DIDN’T consult any of his assistants and just decisively made the call on his own, he would have been an idiot THEN too, for being too impulsive and not taking the opinions of his assistants into consideration.

Let’s face it, Herm just can’t make a correct decision, not matter which direction he goes. Every football mind involved in the NFL who respects Herman Edwards and believes he’s a good coach has it completely wrong. All of those football professionals who have spent decades involved in the league and are paid large sums of money to know and teach football at the pro level, they just don’t know what they’re doing. They should just listen to people on message boards and blog comments, because that’s where the real knowledge is. Obviously.

—Tim

It seems like every week for the last 3 weeks something happens on special teams to cost us the game. The Jets game it was a 35 yard punt return that gave Farve the short field he needed to win the game. Bucs game before the half the kickoff team gives up a big kick return that swings the momentum in the Bucs favor. And this past Sunday a darn muffed PAT that ends up causing us to go for two to win the game instead of us being in a position to kick the extra point to win the game.

At some point special teams has to stop costing us games. I know its something the average fan doesn’t speak on but like i’ve said before special teams can help you win close games or lose them. And ours haven’t been helping us out at all.

Yes, the special teams play has hurt the Chiefs over the last few losses. There are some obvious reason for that, though.

Due to the constant changing of the team’s depth due to injuries, our special teams units have been in a consistent state of flux. Add to that the fact that we’ve changed place kickers, changed long-snappers, and for 2 weeks were without our Pro Bowl-caliber punter (which contributed IMMENSELY to the loss against Tampa Bay, in my own opinion).

Stability can be a huge key for consistent special teams play, and I think we’ve all seen that here the last few weeks.

—Tim

I certainly don’t want the Chiefs to ever lose a game. I also would prefer that we don’t draft in the Top 5 where we get strapped with salaries. I would like to see Herm coaching some where else though. Preferably the Raiders or Broncos. 1-17 in the last year +. Say what you will about who supports him, but it is about wins and losses. Losses and injuries are Herm’s history. Coincidence I’m sure.

aPauled is really showing what an incredible coach he would make…The Chiefs were out of timeouts when they were going for two…I guess aPauled’s clock management skills really suck!

Josh, you are wrong about Herm and it will be proved out. I will be glad to serve you the crow.

I don’t understand the comments about the team not being prepared. I was very critical in the first few games on that very subject, but yesterday they came within one play of beating a pretty good team on the road. They did that with help from guys who were home watching Opra last week. I would say someone did a great job of preparing them for SD. This isn’t a week anyone can complain about lack of preparation. It was one of the best coaching jobs I can remember in a long time. Talk about smoke and mirrors!

I do try to keep in mind that Herm is still learning the head coaching job as well. He really doesn’t have THAT much experience. By apparently letting Chan Gailey run the offense, he shows me that he is willing to change. Good for him, and us.

TimInKC, I think you misunderstood my post.

I think that’s what any competent Coach would/should do, get others thoughts on a critical decision like that. Thus the last line in my post.

aPauled says:
I would like to see Herm coaching some where else though. Preferably the Raiders or Broncos.

Interesting, the Giants fans were saying the same thing about Coughlin right before they won a Super Bowl. Maybe history will repeat itself.

The fact is Tim we haven’t been playing a cupcake schedule. If we were losing to the Lions, 49ers, Bengals, or even the Rams. I would be upset. But we’ve been playing some good football team with way more experience and games like this with way more talent on the field. The fact is we’re being competitive despite all of the injuries and suspensions.

We have drafted well look at Bowe,Charles, and Flowers etc. WE have signed well look at Bradley. YOur problem Tim you’re like most fans you live and die by every game and you don’t look at the big picture. Fact is this team is very talented. Alot of our key players were missing yesterday on defense and we still was able to slow down one of the best offenses in the league. Thats good coaching. So when I hear people like you say Herm can’t coach I question what are you looking at.

Records don’t always tell the true story. Think back to the 1 and 15 Cowboys in the early 90s. Alot of people thought Jimmy Johnson couldn’t coach either. Fact is we are young its the truth except it. But keep in mind we want always be young. We’re getting better every game so just give it time the wins will come. For Herm to have this team even being competitive despite of not having Larry the last 3 games, but the offense still is being productive shows me he can coach. WE’re one of the least penalized teams in the league that comes from good coaching. That shows dicipline. So i would say to you and fans like you revisit this conversation next year in 2009.

I once thought it would take to 2010 for us to win an AFC west title. I take that back it can happen next year. Just look around you the Broncos defense is horrible and they don’t draft all that well. The Chargers are getting worse every year. And the Raiders are the Raiders. The division is for the taken next year if we keep Thigpen as the starting quarterback. Fill in the wholes on the right side o-line, get a defensive end, and middle linebacker all in the 2009 draft. And convince Tony to stay one more year and keep Larry. The skys the limit next year. Stop focusing on the short term, look at the long term because thats what rebuilding is all about.

re:MWinburn says:
“aPauled is really showing what an incredible coach he would make…The Chiefs were out of timeouts when they were going for two…I guess aPauled’s clock management skills really suck!”

Never mentioned anything about time outs. Way to come out attacking with those thought provoking comments though. Really brings something to the board.

JohnNdallas, I understood what you were saying. I was being sarcastic, trying to say that no matter what Herm tries to do, he’s going to be criticized by people for making the wrong choice.

—Tim

Ed is right.

“True”,

You are the last person I would eat crow from (next to Rin, I suppose). You and he are cut from the same cloth; arrogant “know-it-alls” who cannot back up a thing they say and resort to asinine comments to try and disguise the fact that others have them at a loss.

JohnNdallas,Good to see you back to commenting on this site, too.

New Gripe: If I’d chugged a beer every time the CBS game announcers declared that a play was made by “Napolean Harris” I wouldn’t have made it to halftime.

I know it’s just the lowly Chiefs, but how about a little preparation, guys?

Josh,

Your “classic” fan comments have hardly been the least bit creative. You just regurgitate what you read. That makes your comments clownish and I kinda enjoy poking fun at them. I doubt you would eat crow from any Herm supporters, you are much too arrogant and know-it-all for that!

Yes, Ed has some very good points. Not sure why they were directed at me, though. You’re preaching to the chior, Ed.

In regards to the division, let’s keep in mind that it took a game-winning drive in the closing minutes against the Browns last Thursday night to keep the Broncos from leading the division with a SUB-.500 RECORD. The Chargers and Raiders have struggled, and the Chiefs have games remaining against each division opponent. With a Chiefs’ schedule that include those division games, along with games against a now-struggling Bills team and a lowly Bengals team, this 2nd half of the season looks like it could provide some opportunities. Am I predicting the Chiefs to win the division? Of course not. But if the Chiefs were to really start clicking and pick up steam, and the Broncos and Chargers still struggle, things would have the possibility to be interesting by the end of the year. Just a thought.

Now commense with calling me insane.

—Tim

I guess my wife is right (She accuses me of not listening to the game, she thinks I just watch) I didn’t notice them calling Harris’s name. GOOD THING THO I despise that guy!!
Maybe that’s not a bad thing that I pay more attention to whats happening on the field as apposed to listening to guys that get handed a piece of paper every week to read from, and then expected to make any/MANY (sometimes they do hit it right) informed comments.

“True” Silver and Black:

Haha!! Good one! You got me there!!!

No seriously, I want this team to succeed. I want them to win the Super Bowl. This has been a class-act organization from conception until the latest regime. I just want to see what’s best for the Chiefs happen, and right now, I don’t think that’s Herm.

Let’s try to keep things polite and respectful, fellas. No reason we can’t disagree without the name-calling and mud-slinging.

Josh and I disagree on some things, and agree on others. “findthedr” and I manage to take opposite sides on many issues regarding the Chiefs, but I find “findthedr” to be very intelligent and well-thought-out in his positions. We don’t agree, but I’m not going to bash the guy or call him names.

Let’s keep it cool, guys. It’s more enjoyable that way.

—Tim

Tim is yet again the voice of reason!

I have said in the past that those who don’t want to have an intelligent conversation and just bash people might want to go back to the kansas city star. I am immediately unimpressed by the Chiefs haters here. As you noticed, I didn’t say herm haters. The reason I say that is because they have nothing positive to say even though there were a lot of positives. Herm did right at the end of that game. The defense would not have been able to stop the dolts at all if they lost the toss in ot. He was probably thinking what offensive players to use. If you hate herm more power to you but take it to the star where they appreciate you for that. Since I have been here, not long after Mr. Gretz put up this blog we have done really well having intelligent conversations. Until some of you star morons got here. Yes, we dont care for Peterson. Already gone over that. But to bash a coach who was holding a defense together with toothpicks, and went for the win with a 2 point conversion is stupid. go back to your sewer.

Hey, I’d like to change the subject to Boiwman. Man he played his butt off and it seemed like he was making tackles, rather than being drug down the field like Thomas. I wonder if he has the speed to be around next year?

Hodson,

I’d like to see that. He reminds me a lot of Maslowski!

Poor clock management lost this one back in the second quarter with a 1:08 left . The Chiefs offense did not have the urgency in trying to get more points. Yes you did have the momentum going into half time and you did not want to turn the ball over but you have to have that focus on finishing an opponent off. If they scored a least a field goal that and the fact they had the ball first in the second half would have boost their confidence. Great job to the following Herm it pains me to say it but great gameplan and kudos to the players especially Bradley and Thigpen. This kid is starting to look decent a Rich Gannon two! Whoa let me slow down but he is gaining confidence every week.The problem with this lost besides the bad snap they had with the extra point was again CLOCKMANAGEMENT!!!!!

For those saying that Atlanta and Miami turned it around in one year, you are SERIOUSLY MISTAKEN!!! Both Miami and Atlanta drafted in the top 10 in 2007 and got worse that season to draft higher in 2008. This year they have turned those two draft classes and some free agents into very competitive teams.

Using the Atlanta and Miami analogies the Chiefs are on the correct path to be a winning football team next season.

This season is not in a vaccuum. You have to look at previous seasons as well.

BTW, the same holds true for the Tennessee Titans. They drafted #6 in 2005, then #3 in 2006. They were competitive that year and drafted #19 in 2007. They made the playoffs last year and are currently the best team in the AFC.

There is a pattern here. Team turns bad…draft high. The bad hits rock bottom….draft higher. Team gets to be competitive then next season and is a strong playoff contender the year after that . The Chiefs are in the rock bottom stage.

Are you seriously trying to equate the Titans high-pick 2005 and 2006 drafts to their success? They drafted Pacman Jones and Vince Young those years with those high picks! They have absolutely NOTHING to do with their current success.

Check out the link below for an analysis that blows the Titan analogy out of the water.

http://www.chiefswarpath.com/news/2008/10/24/not-a-titan-model/

And so you’re saying Atlanta and Miami are better because they got to draft Jamaal Anderson and Ted Gin Jr., respectively, before we we got to draft? Ha. We ended up with Bowe, who has been better than either of those guys.

Jay A. when looking at rebuilding a team and high draft picks, it goes beyond the first round pick. That high draft status means they draft high in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round. All of those players should be impact players within the first 2 years.

I remember hearing rumblings about some people wanting to let Jeff Fisher go a couple of years back when the Titans were rebuilding.

Guess it looks like a good idea now that they kept him, yeah?

—Tim

tm1946 –

“I would appreciate someones opinion. Bowe is a 1st rounder. Bradley got released by Chicago. Yet in this “new” offense of Chans, Bradley is becoming the go to WR and of course Tony is Tony. Bowe is becoming a second or third option. Could be another less than stellar pick by carl, herm and company?

Could it be that the defense puts their best cornerback on Bowe? could it be they usually use a safety to provide help over the top against Bowe?

Bowe is on pace to break 1,000 yards, even with our problems at QB early in the season.

Bowe is the man, we just have someone else that can contribute for a change. If Bradley stays healthy we have a nice pair of starting wide outs. With Franklin as our #3 all of the sudden we are looking pretty good at that position.

Hodson, Boiwman played his butt off, as I expected. If he keeps it up he may earn a spot for now. We still need to get alot better at that position but I am rooting for the guy.

Geez, one day of work goes by and 78 comments flood this page! Incredible. To all the optimists, I remember very few criticisms of the Chiefs when they beat Denver back in week 4. I think most of us were just happy to get a win. Sure there was the Tony G controversy, but people seemed pretty satisfied. Jay A and Josh and aPauled and some others are really going toe to toe with True and Tim and Rin today! I LOVE IT! JohnNdallas and findthedr and myself have been relatively quiet. Usually I enjoy a good debate, but I think both sides have said about all that can be said.

My opinion in short was that this was probably the most inspired play I’ve seen out of this team since Herm arrived. However, there’s no denying that we have lost 17 or our last 18 games. I don’t care how many injuries a team suffers or how many rookies they play, going 1-17 is unacceptable no matter what, under any circumstances. If the season ended today, Herm should be fired. However, there are still 7 games left and Herm has a chance to prove he’s worthy of another year. I don’t believe in him. He may or may not lead us (or another team) back to the playoffs, but I don’t think he will EVER win the Superbowl.

First of all Colby Like i said earlier records don’t always tell the story. Dallas went 1 and 15 back in the early 90s in Alkman rookie year and that was unacceptable as well, but it worked out for them.

Your problem is you are not evaluating the 2007 season properly. Let me remind you Herm wanted to rebuild in 2007, but Carl would not let him because of the team’s previous success in 2006 (playoff berth) and going 10 and 6 in 2005 season. Don’t blame Herm for being forced to play a bunch old guys in 2007. Fact is if we would have had a decent record in 2007 the youth movement would have not started in 2008 season. WE would still be patching retread veterans in here to try to win a Super Bowl. Which was a 19 year plan that Peterson installed to win a Super Bowl that never worked.

Second thing we are young. Fact is Colby when you’re the youngest team in the league with 16 rookies on the squad you’re not going to beat alot of veteran teams. Especially like the ones we faced on the schedule. And another thing the injuries are a factor especially on a young team. You’re asking a bunch of more young players with even less experience to go out there and out smart or out play veteran guys. And thats just almost impossible to do. Like i said before if you don’t think this guy can coach either you have an agenda or you just don’t get it. I’m all for firing somebody who’s not getting the job done but I also have to understand their situation before I can make that assesment. You can’t ignore the facts Colby it is what it is. And the facts are Herm is getting more out of this young team and thats the truth. WE’re playing hard and giving ourselves a chance to win. That is a good sign in the rebuilding process. I don’t expect you to understand because KC never been through a proccess like this. But to say Herm is not the guy for the job is foolish

All you have to do is look at the bottom teams in the league (Lions,Raiders,Bengals,49ers,Rams) and look at our last 3 games and look at theirs. Its clear we’re getting better and they’re getting worse. Yes the Raiders beat us, but its very clear we’ve gotten alot better since that game and they’re going backwards. Keep Herm in place Clark and great things will come to pass. This is the same crap people said about Coughlin, same crap people said about Cowher, and i even heard whispers of the same crap about Fisher when they were rebuilding in 2005 and 2004 season.

Fans have to look beyond this year. Stop expecting this immediate gratification. That is what has got us without a Super Bowl since Len Dawson was quarterback. Over 30 years ago. WE are building for the future not for today. That is how Peterson has been suckering this team for years tease you with these veteran players roster constantly changing every year and no continuity good regular season then busts in the playoffs. Then we go signing a million veterans the next offseason doing it all over again. The Giants, Titans, and even the 90s Cowboys have shown that if you want to win long term in this league you do it through the draft. And what all does teams also have shown us is that it doesn’t happen overnight.

ED-

Totally in agreement that the way to build a team is through the draft, but don’t discount free agency either. You’ve got to make good decisions there too. The Pats are a great example of a team that does both well simultaneously.

As for Herm, I will cut him some slack because of all these damn injuries, but the fact of the matter is is that I haven’t seen a fan base make more excuses for ANYONE in ANY SPORT, EVER! Look back at last year. Everyone said that it was Carl’s fault that the roster got too old, OR, Herm couldn’t be expected to win with all those old players. Well, now the players are young and he’s STILL losing. What does it take? A roster loaded with Pro Bowlers at every position who never get hurt? I’m sorry, but any of us could lead that kind of team to 9-7 I’m certain. Sure they’ve shown improvement over the last three games but have they won any? No. Why? Decisions HERM made at/near the end of ALL THREE GAMES! Good coaches find a way to win games. Herm has won 5 of his last 25 games. Would it have made a difference if we were 6-10 instead of 4-12 last year? YES! Would it make a difference if we were 3-6 right now? YES!

Keep believing guys. I’ll always enjoy watching the Chiefs and I’ll always be a hardcore fan, but I won’t be convinced Herm is the right man for the job until I see him prove capable of getting some wins. (With his OWN players I might add, not from teams that Parcells or Vermeil built)

I almost forgot, the Cowboys team you are refering to was built in the pre free agency era. Different rules apply now ED….as per my above point, draft + free agent signings = Superbowl.

Alphaman,

Obviously a high draft slot means you draft high in every round, but I guess I didn’t emphasize the true point. If you botch the first round pick, it’s effectively like having a low draft slot.

For example, if you have the first overall pick/slot, and say you pick a ryan leaf. Then you have just made yourself the 33rd pick/slot. Get it?

Besides, read the article I referenced, it has all the stats/facts to show that the Titans did not rebuild through those “bad year” drafts. They rebuilt through a combination of things, but mostly through free-agency (most of their starters are free agent signings).

Also, I don’t get this “Herm wanted to rebuild in 2007 but Carl wouldn’t let him” stuff. In what way would Herm have rebuilt “more”, if not through free agent signings? Trade Jared Allen a year earlier when his stock was much lower (fresher arrests, lower sack totals)? Or wasn’t Jared “old” enough yet at only 25 years old?

Seriously, what else could he have done to “rebuild”? Play Brackenridge and Patterson over Law? Play Thigpen fresh out of Coastal Carolina and after missing camp? Sign Rocky Boiman earlier?

Really, tell me what Carl wouldn’t let him do? Trade Waters, Gonzalez, and Surtain? That hasn’t happened anyway. And just think how bad things might be on offense without Tony and Brian.

Actually, Herm WAS allowed to implode and rebuild in 2007. 2006 was the campaign where he was hamstrung in his efforts to rip the foundation out from under this team.

ED, I agree with you when you say that records aren’t the whole story, but they play a damn big part. Without a record good enough to get you into the playoffs, you don’t have a chance of winning a league championship, which is ultimately the goal of any franchise that Matt Millen isn’t in charge of. Seriously though, let’s be honest. How many NFL franchises with losing records make it to the playoffs let alone win it all? None. That only happens in leagues like the AFL.

One win in the past thirteen months is unacceptable. I don’t care how many close games there are. If you don’t play four quarters, and come out with a win, it’s ultimately a failure. No one is going to look back at the 2008 Chiefs’ season in ten years and say “yeah, they only won three games, but man, did they ever find out about those rookie corners that year!” They will say “The 2008 Chiefs team did not win a Super Bowl…They didn’t even make the playoffs. They were a failure.”

Very good points Jay A and Josh, in fact Jay yours is a very legitimate point, that should pretty much resolve any more debate about when this rebuild started.

Josh, I am awfully confused. When did he implode and rebuild last year? I still remember having many of the same players we had the year before. Weigman was one ryan sims another. I’m really confused. I remember this last off season a ton of old lazy veterans were let go. But, I don’t remember him doing it last year. I agree losing never looks good on any coaches resume. But, this is the first year of the rebuild. I don’t like being 1-7 not 17. You cant count the 10 losses from last year for this team today. Yes you can count that against Herm because they are his losses but not against the team. Peterson created the disaster last year and the year before. I have disliked him not blowing this team up 10years ago when he should have. Most people want gratification right now but sometimes its better to be patient and enjoy the trip. Enjoy the games for what they are. If you have ever played any sports at all and was on a team, could you go right out and beat the other teams best player even though you had only played for a month or two. Veteran teams will destroy a young team 9 out of 10 times. Give them time. Yadda yadda I know lets hate Herm now. I’m not going to. I want to see what he can do. We play next year like we did early this year. I will be right there with you yelling for his head.

That’s a sensible enough opinion on Herm CarlM. Probably the only pro-Herm statement that I personally would agree with. I’m sure he’s going to have his job next year regardless so I’m resigned to the fact that I’ve got to get used to him….I just don’t much like it.

Oh and by the way, I don’t think anyone on here (myself included) were saying 1-17 in regards to this year’s players. I’m pretty sure we all (myself anyway) were attributing that to Herm…..and Carl while we’re at it.

Carl,

Not to nitpick, but Sims left after the 2006 season. He was with the Bucs last year and players that Herm couldn’t outright cut last year were phased out (i.e. Greg Wesley). The rebuild started last year, it just wasn’t as “in your face” as it is this year.

we had the oldest team in the nfl last year there was no start on a rebuild Peterson tried to make another run to the playoffs last year and we got burnt.

Herm, in a press conference before the start of the 2007 season said, and I quote, “Our goal is to get younger this year. I want to see a lot of these young players get an opportunity to play, you know, get their feet wet.” That doesn’t sound like a “veteran run to the playoffs” to me.

You guys haven’t been paying attention. Carl had decided even before Vermeil retired that his efforts over the last however many years hadn’t been successful. He was nearing retirement and that is when he decided to blow this team up and start over and build a new foundation thru the draft. First he had to find a Coach. He needed a Coach that #1 was willing to go thru this HELL and second a coach that knew how to draft players coming out of College. Those where his priorities for a Coach. He had to find the best possible coach that fit those priorities. Enter Herman Edwards! Now, Carl knew what that meant: suffering thru a 1-17 string of games. He did not resist Herm in this rebuild he just wanted to do it and try to avoid this 1-17 string of games. Carl wanted to accomplish this and stay competitive at the same time (he knows fans quite well). Herm knows that is not possible, he also knows that he has just so much time. He finally did convince Carl to go full out rebuild, suffer thru the HELL and they would come out the other side in better shape and in less time. After the foundation is set they will work thru free agency to fill missing pieces. But not just any (big name) free agent will do. They will only sign free agents that fit this team. This team will soon have an identity and personality.
So lets talk about Hem, was he the right hire? You can not argue that he is willing to go thru this HELL, that he has proved. It is pretty hard to argue against his draft record, it is not perfect but not bad either. There is plenty of argument out there about whether he can coach on the field and win consistently and rightly so. He has not yet proven that he can, that is a no brainer. Many people obviously don’t believe that he ever will be a Super Bowl Coach. I believe that given the opportunity to do it his way, he will win a Super Bowl. It may not be as a Head Coach, it just may be as a GM. His ultimate goal has always been to be a GM and I think someday he will be.
What I don’t get is the HATE FACTOR! I know that some people just need someone to hate and blame. It doesn’t really matter how good or bad, they will always hate someone wether it is the GM, HC, OC, DC, STC, and/or a player or two. Is that OK? No I don’t think that it is. It is completely uncalled for. Time will prove out Herm’s ability to coach. If he can’t get it done the Chiefs will not be sunk. If fact they will be better off for it.

There is a lot of negative ranting out there and that is life, but it is not the majority. The majority of fans simply take it for what it is and hope for the best.

I dont hate Peterson. He was great when he first came in. Then his priorities changed. The first nine years we had some great teams. No Superbowls. His time has come and gone. Time to find a GM that is really dedicated to getting to the SB not just filling the seats. Yes he hired Vermeil to get us to the SB but he didnt do it. His drafts lacked power and we had a great offense but a very bad defense. Still waiting on next year. After a while though you get tired of waiting. As I said in an earlier post, I am more excited this year than I have been in thirty years.

How can anyone say rebuilding started in 2007 when we were still the oldest team in the league that year. That is the dumbest thing i ever heard. How can you call it a rebuild with old players. Look i’m not going to go back and forth trying to just tell it like it is. As for the records go yes records mean something, but when i say they don’t tell the whole story you have to evaluate what the coach had to work with when you judge him by a record. And in 2007 Herm had nothing to work with bottom line. That was one of the oldest and worst rosters assemble in a long time.

I ain’t trying to sell no one on Herm because from what i’ve learned some of you is either have an agenda with this guy or just don’t get it. When you’re turning a team around there is going to be losing plain and simple. When Fisher was rebuilding in Tennesse they didn’t hold his feet to the fire when he went 4 and 12 then 6 and 10 the next year. They understood the process and was patient with him to REBUILD THE FRANCHISE. Like i’ve said in the past if we’re losing like this next year I can understand the frustration but this is the first year of the rebuilding process.

We did not do a complete 360 with the roster until this past offseason. We brought back majority of the same players from the 2006 roster in the 2007 season. So how the hell can you call that a rebuild. And i don’t care what quotes you bring up Josh fact is the roster was one of the oldest in league in 2007 thats not a rebuild. And the 90s Cowboys i referred to did rebuild through the draft Hershall Walker trade you must do your research they used it to get draft picks.

Look i’m not commenting on this anymore because i hate the back and forth. Obviously you have an agenda or just don’t get it. Truth is next year I don’t want you or anyone like you sucking up to Herm when we’re winnning in 2009 season. What i want you to do and others like you to do is keep on hating on Herm and the Chiefs nick pick every little decision he makes because the one thing i hate more than anything are bandwagon fans. When things are going well you’re all for the team, but when things are bad all you do is complain and whin. It just makes me sick. YOu both were probably same guys saying after the Atlanta game that Thigpen was a garbage quarterback. Just goes to show how to many fans live and die by every game and just need to chill out and look at things from a more logical angle.

This was the same crap NY fans were saying about Coughlin prior to the Giants Super Bowl run. I’m not predicting a Super Bowl run next year but in time that will happen. But it want happen when so called Chiefs fans like yourselves whin all the time and ready to run someone out of town when things aren’t going the way you feel like they should.

Here’s my last point on Herm. How can you say the guy can’t coach when he’s won in the playoffs. Proven when he does have a experienced and talented roster he can win. The guy has the 3 most active playoff appearances in the NFL. You don’t do that without being a good head coach. How bout the guy guided us 2006 to the playoffs with our second string quarterback. The only coach in recent history who can say that will be Bill Bellichick and thats not bad company to be in. Say what you want about Herm keep on hating because thats what haters do. Just don’t jump on the bandwagon next year ok.

True Red & Gold,

Who would have thought that I would ever agree with you on something? haha… I am in total agreement about Herm as a GM. I think he is perfectly suited for that job.

I just want to say, great game! The team played as a team. I thought the young guys stepped up for those that are injured, and I thought the game plan was a good one and put us in a chance to win at the end. Tyler Thigpen is playing wonderfully in the scheme devised by Chan and the future is looking really bright for this team, alot of talented young players are getting alot of valuable playing time/experience and they are getting better because of it. As far as all the Haters, get real! This team came prepared to win and where so beat up at the end of the game it is a miracle we even had a shot to win it at the end of the game. The coaches on both sides of the ball had a great game plan and I really thing if it weren’y for so many def. injuries and horrible calls threw out the game we would have come away with a “W”. And for whoever said at the very top of this blog that the Chiefs should hasve called a timeout before the 2 point attempt – we didn’t have any left. As far as going for the two points – in my mind it is the only call – your defense is emaciated and were starting to let SD run on them, leaving it up to a coin toss to win or loose is not the call any one of those players or 90% of chiefs fans wanted. Besides who says you make the PAT any way you already missed one earlier. Like I said – GREAT GAME – we have something brewing that is going to mean and nasty next year and I cannot wait. And don’t forget this is an entertainment industry and that game was very very very entertaining.
As always GO CHIEFS!!!

JB

Quit spreading lies. The Chiefs were not the oldest team in the NFL in 2007 (although they were still well in the older half of the league). At an average age of about 27.3, their average was almost 2 years lower than the NFL max.

Talk about agendas, good job ignoring the fact that there was no more rebuilding that could have been done in 2006/07 unless we traded Tony G. or someone years ago. Cutting veterans doesn’t magically create more draft picks. The only other way to replace them is with free agent signings or trades.

Who cares when the rebuilding started – it is going on now and we knew it at the beginning of the season. If it started last year or this year doesn’t really matter. What matters is, we are in the rebuilding process and the way the last couple of games have been played show that he are starting to make the turn and we are showing alot of promise for future teams to come – as far as getting rid of the coach that is ridiculous – why would you get rid of the one who is doing the rebuilding? Let him go and let someone else come in and reap the benifits of his hard work? After the young players learn from one coach (rated fourth best coach to play for by the players themselves) bring in another to try to change things? Let him ride this year out and see what improvements are made next year. If little or no improvements are made then we can judge his coaching abilities and start up the fire herm talk. Until then it does no good to argue over things that are trivial like when we started the rebuild – the plan understood by Carl Herm AND Clark at the beginning of the year was that this was going to be a year of growing pains, upsets, few wins, and improvement towards the end of the season. Next year will be another step in the plan – just because you think a coach should go to the super bowl his third year in or else you fire him doesn’t mean that is the way it should be. Give the man a break for what this team has and what they are doing I don’t think coaching should be a real big question right now lets discuss Thygpen and his future should he remain solid for the remainder of the year. If he does I think we still draft a QB just not a high draft pick maybe a 2 or 3 rounder. Just quit hatin’!!

JB

Realizing the head coach is one of the biggest things holding the team back is not hating, it’s loving and wanting better for the team. I’ve watched Herm closely for 8 years and I think that’s plenty of time to decide whether there are better options out there or not. More time will only prove his philosophies are flawed as he abandons them out of desperation and we suddenly get better (i.e. our offense 3 weeks ago). If you ever read or listened to Herm speak you know this current offense is everything he’s said is “the wrong way” in the past. If it takes him 8+ years to learn something fundamental, he’s got to go. Unless you’re up for “30-year plan” to the superbowl.

I think it’s a slam dunk that he’s well below average as a game-day coach. Game planning is also below average. Development, managing, drafting, etc are also all debatable abilities.

I just want to go on record and make sure everyone knows that the other Josh and I are different people. I don’t want people thinking we’re one person with multiple personalities. haha

Jay, you’re right. We WEREN’T the oldest team in 2007. You’re also right about Herm and his view of the current offense. If anyone remembers back to when he was hired as the Chiefs’ HC, he made multiple references to the Vermeil/Saunders offense as being a “Circus”. He even went as far as to say that he didn’t see the need to score more than 14 points (being as your defense should hold the other team to seven or less). Herm is backpeddling and trying to save his job by tinkering and toying with things that even two months ago he would have called “silly” to mess with. I like some of his draft picks (definitely more than those during the Vermeil era), but I completely agree with your opinion of his management of this team…he leaves much to be desired.

Wow. JayA. I think that if Herm actually took us to a superbowl. You would cuss him out because he didn’t do it the way you wanted him too. I agree his game planning has much to be desired. But, his development skills and drafting are pretty good.

I hear people refer to Herm’s development skills and drafting skills, but what is this based on?

1) Jets did not “develop” under 5 years of herm, never got better than the team he inherited, and ending in a 4-12 season and a 5-year losing record overall

2) His 5 years of jets drafts were average, at best!

3) Chiefs have gotten worse, not better, since he’s been here

4) The 3 Chiefs drafts are too recent to objectively gauge as certainly “good” or “bad” at this point. They certainly don’t seem “bad” at this point, but they aren’t great yet either. Only the 2006 draft is far enough away to even start grading, and that currently only has two likely hits at this point (pollard and page) and the rest are either certain misses (Maxey, Stallings, Webb) or potentially big misses but still unknown for sure (Hali and Croyle)

Jay A. says:
3) Chiefs have gotten worse, not better, since he’s been here.
I beg to differ. We havent been good in a long time. Way before Herm and before Vermeil and before shottenheimer. We havent been good since superbowl 3. They have gotten better they got rid of a bunch of good for nothings. I am not sold on Herm yet but, I see good things happening. Sorry you are so pessimistic and that you want gratification now. Sorry that for once someone is doing something about a team that was going no where. I generally change jobs every 6 years. I sometimes find a job I am not good at. I dont generally do the same job I did before. I do know people who have and I do watch the trends in football. I see coaches getting fired and hired all the time. Look at Norv Turner. He has had success at being an offensive coordinator and then taking over as head coach. Wait, he sucks. He has never built a team. He’s waltzed in after someone else built it and then won. Herm in Ny didn’t have someone say here the team is yours blow it up and do it your way. Just like mangini now. I hope mangini doesnt stub his toe. That team was bad before had it and he took them to the playoffs. He also had the third highest win total for the nyjets in its entire history. He also took them to the playoffs 3 times. He won the afc east title in 2002 wild card spots in 2001 and 2004. go figure. In 2002 he took his team past indianapolis in 2004 he took them past san diego. It sounds like the jets did pretty good to me. They weren’t great no superbowl.

Oh you’re right, 1-15 is much better than 10-6, my bad.

Herm had a losing record with the Jets, who cares what the total wins were. It’s about winning percentage in this league. There are horrible boxers out there with 30 wins, which can be considered a lot… but they have 100 losses too.

So Herm went to the playoffs and never made it past a divisional game. The same level the chiefs have stalled at in the playoffs since ‘94. When the Chiefs lose a divisional playoff game you say they’re “not good”, but when Herm’s Jets lose a divisional playoff game you say they’re “pretty darn good”. Your words, not mine. Now who’s the pessimist when it comes to the Chiefs?

Get it straight, stay with facts, and quit looking at the world through your Herm colored glasses.

Gotta agree with Jay, Herms record IS NOT impressive, But I do think this draft and last were about as good as anyone has done in that time.
BUT Jay is also correct that its still to early to tell.

Wow the point just went over your heads. He took one of the worst teams in the NFL at the time to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years. 2 of those years were bad years 2003 and 2005. His total wins is not the issue. did he take them to playoffs 3 out of 5 years as their head coach, yes he did. I am not a herm fan yet and i dont look at things through as you put it his colored glasses. Im saying you dont give anyone a chance your so prejudiced. against what im not sure and i dont care. Your not giving him a chance is my point. We are not talking about boxers. and just to help you out about boxing. I know a lot of boxers with winning records that couldnt take a punch. Just because they boxed against people who should have never been in the ring. the object of an NFL team is the superbowl but you have to get to the playoffs first and you have to win those games first. Instead of being spiteful all the time, why dont you say something positive and quit looking through your prejudiced eyeglasses and just maybe he will prove you wrong. Just Fyi I do have it straight I’m giving him a chance you aren’t. I have not made up my mind on herm yet. I do know that I’m willing to let him do his best.

I have a couple of more questions for you JayA. How many wins did Marty Shottenheimer have? How about Dick Vermeil, how many did he have? now that you have their numbers how many times did they take us to the superbowl?

Herm’s had 8 freakin’ years. How much longer do you need to make up your mind about him??? I gave him tons of chances in NY and I gave him a fresh chance in KC, but he’s still a bad head coach. Good guy, bad head coach.

If I must do the simple research for you, Vermeil had a much better record than Herm over the same span (2001-2005), has been to the superbowl two times, and had a non-playoff 10-6 team while you credit Herm for sneaking into the playoffs twice with a worse 9-7 record.

And you either have a bad memory or are shooting blindly off the hip if you think Herm inherited “one of the worst teams in the NFL” in New York. I was in New York then, followed the Jets, and went to live games ~2 times a year. He inherited what was considered a pretty good team at the time from The Big Tuna.

Herm did inherit Tuna’s team in 2001 and that was one of the years he made the playoffs. Kinda like when he snuck in the playoffs in 2006 with Vermeil’s team.

Herm has one more year to show something. Jay may be right about him but it doesn’t really matter at this point. Constantly ranting about it isn’t going to make it happen any sooner or later. It is just getting old reading guys rants blaming everything on the coach. It hardly makes you an intelligent guy because you can go back and recite Herm’s failures. Some of us prefer to look forward instead of back all the time. Herm is going to get his shot, it doesn’t matter what anyone thinks of that, it also doesn’t hurt to cheer the man on!

I freely admit Vermeil took teams to the Superbowl. He however, did not take the Kansas City Chiefs to the Superbowl. Yes colby he did inherit vermeil’s team for the playoffs the first year and we played indianapolis and got smacked. Herm wanted to blow the team up. Peterson and Lamar Hunt did not want to blow up the team so the next year he took the same team into a 4-12 season. Then they decided to blow up the team. And Tuna’s record at the Jets 9-6 his first year 1997,12-4 second year 1998,8-8 third year, there was no 4th year al groh took over and his was 9-7. I dont see the great team except in tuna’s 2nd year. before tuna got there the record for the jets for the 2 previous years was 4-28 sounds like a bad team to me

You are right True. I will drop it thanks for being the heart of reason.