Sunday Morning Cup O’Chiefs
Are we in the final days of Tony Gonzalez’s time with the Chiefs?
It’s sure building to that conclusion. Attempts by the Chiefs to keep things under wraps have failed, as those types of attempts always do in these days of the 24-your news cycle. That Gonzalez is available and that they are talking to NFL teams is now very public information. You can bet there will be a new angle contributed on the Fox-TV pre-game show with their information man Jay Glazer. He’s good friends with Gonzalez and over the last few years the Chiefs have fed Glazer a number of scoops.
There is no question now that the Chiefs have been in contact with several teams about their unhappy tight end. Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Green Bay, Philadelphia and the New York Giants have been mentioned prominently. I’m told there’s at least one other team that’s in the mix. With the exception of the Bills, all of the teams involved are in the NFC. And, only one of the teams is on the Chiefs schedule over the final 11 games: Tampa Bay visits Arrowhead on November 2. Wouldn’t that make for an interesting afternoon!
Some media outlets are reporting that Gonzalez went to Carl Peterson and requested a trade last week in the days after the loss to Carolina.
The reality is that Gonzalez went to both Peterson and head coach Herm Edwards pleading for a trade after the team lost in Atlanta on September 21. He had subsequent meetings with Peterson in the last two weeks, again requesting a ticket out of the rebuilding of the Chiefs.
That this has gone public will not help the Chiefs in negotiating a trade. It will however, make it far easier for the team to pull the trigger.
Stay tuned …Â the next few days in the Chiefs Nation should be interesting.
AN OUTSIDE LOOK INTO THE CHIEFS
WR Mark Bradley has not gotten on the field yet for the Chiefs, but here’s a piece out of Chicago about what happened to the former second-round pick with the Bears and what he might be able to contribute to the Kansas City offense.
FROM THE PAGES OF CHIEFS HISTORY
On October 12, 1962, the Dallas Texans beat the Patriots 27-7 in a Friday night game at Boston University Field. It was the passing combination of QB Len Dawson and WR Chris Burford that the Patriots could not stop. Dawson hit 16 of 31 passes for 302 yards and a pair of TDs, including one to Burford, who caught 10 passes for 171 yards. RB Abner Haynes had a pair of touchdowns, one on a 2-yard run and the other on a 37-yard pass play from Dawson. The game started in an unusual fashion, as Boston QB Babe Parilli threw an interception on the first offensive play of the game. S Bobby Hunt picked it off for the Chiefs. Then, on Kansas City’s first play, Dawson’s pass was deflected and interception by LB Nick Buoniconti. Two plays later, Parilli fumbled and Hunt recovered for the Chiefs
On October 12, 1969, the Chiefs beat the Houston Oilers 24-0 in front of 45,805 fans on a rainy Sunday afternoon at Municipal Stadium. The Kansas City defense was sensational, holding the Houston offense to just 91 yards, with five interceptions and four sacks. The Oilers had 21 yards on 21 carries in the running game. Safeties Jim Kearney and Johnny Robinson had two interceptions each on passes by Oilers QB and former teammate Pete Beathard. LB Jim Lynch had the other interception. RB Mike Garrett had a 2-yard TD run and RB Robert Holmes caught a 33-yard TD pass from QB Tom Flores. KC’s other score came when Houston punter Roy Gerela fumbled the snap and it was recovered by G George Daney and returned 5 yards for a TD.
AROUND THE LEAGUE
New York Jets coach Eric Mangini and his wife Julie welcomed their third child into the world on Friday. His name is Zack Brett Mangini, and yes the middle name is because of Mangini’s quarterback Brett Favre.
The NFL has gotten some help in their continuing battle with Comcast on access for the NFL Network.
AROUND THE AFC WEST
If Jacksonville doesn’t recognize the Denver defense they’ll play on Sunday, they have only themselves to blame.
With San Diego hosting New England, the Chargers defense is still trying to find itself without their big play maker, Shawne Merriman.
Supposedly the Raiders are getting ready to open up their offense today in the Superdome against New Orleans.
nice piece.
2 things:
1. correct ‘24-your news cycle’ to 24 hour
2. are you saying that Gonzalez has been telling Glazer inside over the years that has hurt the chiefs?
So Tony “pleaded” with the chiefs to get traded, sort of a different tune? Glazer got insider info, what? Looks like damage control to me.
I hope the chief organization does not try to make Tony a scapegoat or cancer in the locker room like Vermeil or Allen or Tait. There seems to be a pattern here.
The sad reality is the Chiefs’ playoff chances with or without Tony G would remain extremely remote for this season and probably 2009 as well. As long as the truck is backed up, might as well unload LJ and Surtain as well, then see if the NCAA will grant an exception for the Chiefs to compete in Divsion I?
Pardon the sarcasm but it’s getting tougher and tougher to have any confidence that the current front office and coaching staff know what they’re doing. Are the Chiefs joining the Lions and Bengals as the poster children for inept NFL franchises?
Okay, mini rant over. Let’s get this latest storm front behind us, keep the faith, and trust that the remainder of the season will show more promise and progress than the first 5 games.
Rich over you mini rant? There is a lot of truth in wha you said. I can see a real chance the chiefs could be a bottomfeeder in this league for a long time. I know many here want to wait until the rebuild is complete to evaluate just where we stand and that is ok. But in football one team must lose the game. Green Bay went young and kept their old QB to guide them and our chiefs chose to go young and keep their RB, different choices for different teams.
I guess what I am saying is there are no garantees. Wait 3 or 4 years and you can be the Bungles for all your hard work. You need to enjoy what you have and if watching this bunch if fun go for it. My long term predition is clark hunt will look into moving the chiefs to better market in about 2015, a fresh start with new hopes and aspirations.
I had the same thought Rich while watching the Texas vs. OU game.
I’m sure somebody has pointed this out already, but nothing the Chiefs can get in trade for Gonzalez will make up for his lost production anytime soon. He is too important to this offense.
Rich,
If we could get value for Surtain I’d say “go for it”.
At this point after 4 games maybe the chiefs should have a fire sale, why not? Trade any older players, anyone who is not a starter. Include punter and special teams. With the next draft there could be 12 picks to keep rebuilding with.
Hold out for the best deal Carl! Don’t give up one of the best players in our history for nothing! One positive thing about Carl lately is that he has managed to get draft picks for players the Chiefs no longer wanted. Dante Hall, Trent Green, Ryan Sims, Lawrence Tynes and Michael Bennett. He needs to make sure to max out the compensation for Gonzalez. If he can get anything for our other vets then more power to him.
I’m excited to get Bradley on the field. I liked this guy when he played for the Sooners. Maybe he’ll be able to put it together here in KC. Devard Darling sure hasn’t but I’m glad they’re trying to find hidden gems on the market. I always felt that one of the main reasons this team was consistently competitive in the 90s was Carl’s ability to find low profile free agents who could come in and make a difference. Guys like Mark Collins, Ted Popson, Joe Phillips, Rich Gannon, and Glenn Parker just to name a few were not high profile guys when they were brought in. I’m not sure how effective Carl is at finding guys like these anymore but when the team is struggling this bad, you’ve gotta try and find a spark somewhere.
Here’s tidbit for all you Maurice Price fans. The Pats just cut him after promoting RB Benjarvus Green-Ellis from their practice squad. I’m not completly sold on Price, but I think KC should sign him back to the practice squad if he’s interested.
I would bring back Price in a second, along with Hannon from San Fran’s P.S
I wouldn’t take any less than the Giants 2nd round pick for Tony G, that will more than likely be the last pick of the first day in the 2009 draft if the GMen go and win back to back SuperBowls. Or it’s more like a 3rd rounder for Tony. If Carl sells out for any less then we should have his head.
I think we will see one or the other gone next year from the sound of the fight between Herm & Carl for the power and control of this rebuild.
Herm will blame Carl for why he can’t get it done and Carl will tell Clark he is trying to keep the stands still full so Clarks bank account wont take a hit and odds are Clark will go with what ever Carl says do to Carl has made the HUNTS very rich for the last 20 years and that will go a long ways with the young man Clark. You all have to keep in mind Clark has grown up with Carl and I wouldn’t be supprised if Clark didn’t use to refer to Carl as his uncle (Uncle Carl) back in his youth. There is a very strong relationship between Carl Peterson and the entire Hunt family. Even if Carl steps over to just the business side of the Chiefs, he more than likely will never work for anyone else in the NFL.
During the pregame shows there were several comments on the rebuilds of Atlanta and Miami. Before the current rebuild Atlanta had lost a 30,000 person waiting list for tickets. Then I started thinking about the chiefs. herm has said he hope the rebuild to be done in 3 years, wonder what Atlanta and Miami knows herm is unaware of.
ILChiefsFan says:
“I’m sure somebody has pointed this out already, but nothing the Chiefs can get in trade for Gonzalez will make up for his lost production anytime soon. He is too important to this offense.”
Agree, but that might force KC to throw to someone else other than Bowe with TG gone. Others will finally get a chance, and they have to step up.
I agree, I would like to have Maurice Price back. Hannon is essentially the equivalent of Jeff Webb, and neither have ’stepped up’ inspite of getting oppurtunities.
MenInRed says:
I think we will see one or the other gone next year from the sound of the fight between Herm & Carl for the power and control of this rebuild.
What fight, do you have evidence to support that claim? Please do not assume something, you know where that can get you!
True Red etc, always enjoy your posts. Comment on your view of why Atlanta and Miami have rebuilt in a short time and herm wants years to do basically the same thing. Been watching Atl. game, their 1st round draft pick is the starting QB and does not look bad. Atlants had the same record last year and not as many draft picks.
Just what do you think is right with the chiefs and their rebuild.
Ryan is far better of a prospect than any of the guys coming out next year, especially Stafford…If we dont take the MLB from Ohio State or USC I would be shocked…the extra pick allows us to do this, then use the 2nd/ 2 3rds on OL/possibily a rush end.
Wow! talk about a torn issue. On the one hand we should all want the best for Tony, on the other, it’s a selfish move on his part. The other thing is if he doesn’t get traded, he will be even more miserable and won’t give 110%. Geez, LJ might as well say he wants traded too. These are professional football players, I wish they would act like it.
Alex Korson,
the chiefs will have a very high 1st round pick next year and I can virtually guarantee you that they wont be spending it on a MLB. That would be stupid.
Furthermore, Ray M. has been exposed by Oregon states as not worthy of that high a pick.
OK tmess, I will give it a try. Even if I feel like I am trying to compare an apple to an orange.
Starting with Atlanta: Lets hope that we don’t have to go thru the turmoil this team has had to endure. They are not a team that got old and in need of retooling. They were a pretty darn good team when Vick was at his best. They did a good job in the free agency market and they had a great draft (especially with their QB) It seems they have hit a home run with their selection at QB, a Matt Ryan would make any team look better. I would not classify this team as a rebuilding team. They are a team that built around Vick, when Vick was not in the picture and without a quality QB to take his place they had a miserable 4-12 season. Maybe with Ryan this team will reach the potential expected when they put it together.
Miami: To start with, Parcels is one of, if not the best in the business at building a team. He never stays long so maybe KC will be his next stop.
So far all the Dolphins have done is improve on a 1-15 season. Today they lost to an 0-4 Houston team. They will have an up and down season. They are however a better team, mostly because of a healthy Ronnie Brown, a good QB in Pennington and a flat out dominate LT. But also because Parcels knows how to build a team.
It will be interesting to watch the development of the Dolphins long term compared to the Chiefs long term and see if Carl can even sit at the same table as Parcels.
Bob, reports are that Jay Glazer said Larry Johnson is also on the trade block-can you confirm this?
Are you kidding me? You actually believe a MLB is not worth a top 5-10 pick? With Laurenitus and Big Rey? Both would instantly help this defense, and with the added 3rd rounder, offensive line can wait…
This defense has linebacker gap issues, they have the secondary, they have 3 of the 4 on the line and a rush end is an easy fix…they need a LEADER of the defense, someone to hold EVERYONE accountable, not a coach, a player coach who can manage that defense….Currently there is no leader out there.
not to mention, I say we trade back if our pick is inside 5, then take Rey or Laurenitus, and have even more picks to fix that line….cant pass up on a future HoF player just because of position….I was wrong to not want Pennington, had we added him, this team would be a lot closer than people think.
I would have to say that Laurinitis is a special player and is worth (if the draft were tomorrow) a top 5 pick. We’ll see how it shakes out come April and yes, MLB usually isn’t a position taken that high, but sometimes you gotta make that move. I still think Stafford is overrated and Tebow is a super project and seems a risky pick to make that high. I would rather see the Chiefs take an Oher, or a Monroe or an Andre Smith at OT and have two bookends for the next decade. That will make our QB look alot better no matter who he is. Also, we need some serious help at WR and that weakness will be magnified if we trade Tony!
Alex,
Our defensive line is made up of (from R to L): 1st rounder, 1st rounder, 3rd rounder, 2nd rounder.
We have a 1st rounder OLB in DJ, a 2nd round CB in Flowers, a 2nd round saftey in pollard.
basically we have 1st day draft picks all over the defense….and our defense currently sucks!
a rookie MLB is not (and should not be) the leader of the defense. Furthermore, now that defensive players can have radios in helmets. they can get the adjustments directly from the coach. The ‘QB’ of the defense can now be virtually any defensive player who is wearing the helmet with communication.
Warren sapp was the leader of the defense when he was around. Donnie Edwards was the leader of the defense when he was in his prime. Bob Sanders is the leader of the defense for Indy. Their is no reason that Glen Dorsey or Derrick Johnson, or Bernard Pollard, or Tamba Hali, or any of our other players cant step up and lead. If they cant do it and were drafted by the chiefs, what makes you think some rookie can?
Ray M. is 6′2” 260lbs and will likely run a slow 40 time. IMO, he is too big as a 4-3 MLB. This year he has looked lousy without Sedrick Ellis in front of him. Instead of tackling at or behind the LOS, he is chasing them down from behind. The rb from Oregon State rushed for 186yrds against USC which has a very veteran defense!
Our best option might actually be to have DJ play MLB. He should be great as long as our DTs do their job and keep blockers off of him.
You admit that the team would be alot closer with Pennington, and thus admit the diffrence that a competent QB can make on the team. Obviously, QB instability has to be the most glaring weakness on the team (along with the offensive line). Even if Brodie turns out to be the answer, he hasnt shown he can stay healthy for a complete season. The chiefs would be foolish to pass up a chance at drafting a top rated passer, specially since they touch the ball more than any other player on the team.
to save you the trouble, here is a list from NFL.com of MLB drafted since 1992. Brian Urlacher was the highest at #9. Most were drafted around the 2nd round. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=Middle%20Linebackers&type=position
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/nfl-draft/fo-re-run-draft-position
Also, football outsiders did some great analysis for every NFl position and show where NFL starters were drafted. Basically, the QB, LT, and DT position starters were found in the 1st round.
Here is what they said,” The QB position is by far the toughest to fill, and most teams are (and should be) willing to fill it by any means necessary. First round QBs are no sure thing, but anyone picked after the first round appears to be a very long shot that will require several years of development. And even those late round guys that do work out will probably have to move to a new team to be successful. The bottom line here is that until you’ve found your guy you should jump at any opportunity to acquire a quality starter, be it early in the draft, late in the draft, via trade, or through free agency. Don’t pass on a QB early in the draft because you also like a guy that could be had later. If you are really in need of a QB you should probably draft them both.”
what do they say about LB? answer:
“Linebacker is a position where there never seems to be a shortage of talent. It’s kind of the anti-Planet Theory position. I’m not saying there are 6-foot-2, 230 pound guys that can run a 4.5 on every street corner in America, but there seem to be 10 to 20 in every draft class. The elite guys are set apart by instinct, desire, and hard work. That’s not always easy to identify, so there will be some bargains late in the draft and even some that don’t get drafted. The gifted guys who were extremely productive at the big time programs are the ones that go early and seldom disappoint, so there’s no reason not use an early pick to fill a need at linebacker, just don’t do it at the expense of filling a need at a top heavy position (such as QB, LT, DT). There will be good players available later if you know how to find them. OLB bargains are often undersized college defensive ends who make the transition to playing in reverse well (like Clark Haggans and Adalius Thomas). ILB generally requires more football intelligence than OLB, so the bargains are in the form of guys with relatively average athletic skills but great football minds (like Zach Tomas and Antonio Pierce).”
Did you ever find the Dr.?
I understand why Tony wants to go….and who can blame him? It will be a sad day when he leaves. I doubt we will get anything that will even equal what he has been to this team. The draft picks we get will be a gamble…and many of our draft picks seem to disappear with in 2 seasons. I know that LJ with his personality has to be itching to go somewhere else too. How long before he starts crying to be traded? I’m sure he’s wondering if he will have a great career like Tony but no playoff wins or Superbowl appearances….like Tony.
Independence Man # 69 says:
“Did you ever find the Dr.?”
yeah, the football doctor, and I’m now putting on a clinic in this thread. lol.
It would be said to see him go but I don’t blame him wanting to leave. I just hope it doesn’t become an issue in the locker room.
It would also suck if he leaves and we do turn this thing around next year and actually get some playoff wins. That would be bad for him.
JB
I think the best trade scenerio for both the Chiefs and Tony would be a trade to the Bills. They are a young team that can win now. They have a good defense and the Patriots are on a down end without Brady. They have a good young quarterback in Edwards who in my opinion i felt like we should have drafted him in 2007 draft anyways. In return they could send us JP losman and maybe a 4th or 5th round pick. I think Losman is a young but proven quarterback that can help this rebuilding process speed up alot faster. Also the kid is good if you remember before he went down with the injury he was playing great it just was when Edwards stepped in he didn’t play bad and Losman never got his starting job back. I jus think this team needs to come out of this with a young and more proven QB. This would also give Croyle more time to develop and hopefully he can pack on another 10 to 12 pounds nxt yr so he can be able to deal with the pounding of being a starting NFL quarterback. What do you think about that proposal Bob?
If we get a back in return for Gonzalez, I would love to see LJ dealt for any brand of peanuts.
As for MLB, a rook can lead the defense, and DJ is NOT a middle linebacker, Herm has stated such many times…Just because those draft “experts” state such, doesnt mean we wont deal back to 10 and nab Rey or Laurenitus….The fact is, Stafford isnt worth a top 5 pick, and as for getting a capable passer, who is to say a rookie is the way to go at that position?
I stick to MLB, last year I stuck with Dorsey or Ellis as the pick, and boom, it happened, previous year I predicted Bowe, so this year, I see a trade back to maximize picks, then a MLB. Of course if we could get Vilma in here, Id prefer that if Oher is worth a top 10 pick.
Vilma would be sweet. Isn’t he the ideal cover 2 MLB? I think he was great in the 4-3 at New York, then they switched to the 3-4 and he bit the big one. He’d be back in his element if he came here.
I wish Tony well.
He deserves better than Carl and Herm are capable of giving him.
To anyone suggesting we should trade Tony G. for a second round pick, here is what the Chiefs have done with their second round picks over the last 8 years.
2008 Brandon Flowers CB
2007 Turk McBride DE
2006 Bernard Pollard DB
2005 No Second Round Pick
2004 Junior Siavii DT
2004 Kris Wilson TE
2003 Kawika Mitchell MLB
2002 Eddie Freeman DT
2001 No Second Round Pick
2000 William Bartee CB
Would you trade even an older Tony G. for any one of these players in their prime?
Trade Larry, and let Kolby and Jamaal split carries, but getting rid of Tony makes no sense for anything less than a first rounder.
Alex,
1.just because Herm might have stated DJ is not a MLB doesnt make it so. DJ has the size, speed, and the natural instincts to be succesful at it. He essentially played ILB at Texas anyway.
2. we dont need RB. that is the deepest position on the chiefs. Heck, we even have Battle on the PS who is 6′2” 238lbs and ran a 4.42 40yrd time.
3. Chiefs will not draft Oher. Albert has shown he is capable of playing the LT position.
4. Stafford is easily worth a top 5 pick.
5. Yes, rookie QBs might not be succesful, but the play of guys like Matt Ryan, ben Rothlesberger, Jay Cutler, Trent Edwards, Kyle Orton, among others show that QBs can be succesful starting in their rookie year.
6. Vilma might be an option if he is available, though I expect the saints to lock him up if he shows he is a capable starter for them.
———————————————–
Brian,
Tony no longer wants to be a chief. No one is going to give us a 1st for him.
by the way Alex,
could you please post a link of where Herm stated DJ is not a MLB (i.e. cant play the position)? I dont recall ever hearing/reading that. thanks.
findthedr
I usually agree with most of your posts but I have to ask why you are sold on Stafford. You yourself posted the link about college QBs and accuracy and how closely related that stat (along with starts) is so important in selecting a QB in the draft. Why then does Matt Stafford’s average at best career comp % make you think he will be any different than say Jim Druckenmiller or Ryan Leaf or Kyle Boller? I know he has lots of physical talent, but based the stats you provided, there’s no reason to think he is a safe pick in the top 5. Take off your Stafford goggles for a second and carefully reexamine the situation. If you still think the same, tell us why. I’m curious.
Also, to you geniuses yapping on about Vilma, if he were such a great fit then why the hell didn’t Herm (who drafted Vilma originally) make the trade for him this offseason? The Saints made the move and Herm obviously wasn’t comfortable with where we were at at the position so why make the move now and not before? I agree Vilma would have been nice, but Herm didn’t think enough of him to top the Saints offer. SO, does this mean that Vilma’s injuries have made him a shell of his former self or does it mean that Herm is an idiot? Hmmmmm……I think you know my opinion on this issue.
Also, just because it’s fun to speculate, I think that if Tampa is an interested trade partner for Gonzalez, they have some players who could help us out.
At QB
They have four on the roster so maybe McCown or Josh Johnson could be had.
At TE
We could get a veteran to come in and help and they have Alex Smith who is solid in all areas, Jeramy Stevens who is a physical freak, and John Gilmore who excels at blocking and special teams.
At WR
We could get another big LSU product in Michael Clayton. Maurice Stovall is another big target who could potentially help us. Neither is getting targeted much in Tampa right now and since we’d lose a big possession target in Gonzalez, why not gain one back?
Any of you guys interested in any of these players? I think for Gonzalez we could get a combination of any two players mentioned on this list. (One per position)
Colby,
I haven’t heard about any interest from Tampa, but Clayton would be a great pickup.
I don’t know why there hasn’t been more talk about the Chiefs dealing for a lower-profile player that can contribute now, rather than for just a draft pick.
There are several reports that the Eagles are interested in TG – he’d be a great addition to that team. Why not push for something along the lines of a 3rd-rounder and, say, Hank Baskett? I think Baskett could be a #2 receiver for this team right now.
colby,
vilma was coming off of season ending knee injury. Herm might not have wanted to risk a pick…specially when the guy is going to be a free agent in 2009. If he is available in 2009, than I wouldnt be suprised if the chiefs make an offer.
I also never said I am ’sold’ on stafford. There are a number of college qbs that I like including Bradford and Tebow (yes! tebow).
Stafford can make all the throws, he is ‘well built’ and can take a hit, at the end of the season he will have completed 3yrs of starting experience, and although his career completion percentage is below 60%, he has done alot without much of a supporting cast.
There is still alot of season remaining which will help ’shake’ things out, but I think after all is said and done (including senior bowl, combine, proday, and interviews) Stafford will be regarded as a top 5 pick…just as he is now.
http://www.gbnreport.com/top100.html
The questions we have to ask are:
1. Could Stafford, Bradford, or Tebow make the chiefs better?
2. Could any of them be QBOTF, and one day be a probowler?
The answer to both is yes.
It was Gunther who said DJ isn’t a MLB during camp, when he was asked about moving him there.
Most of you are vastly overrating Tony G’s worth at this stage. Tony G, at best is worth a 3d rounder. If we want to do right by him, we’ll settle for less, but we need extra picks. I would certainly trade Tony G for Kawika Mitchell right now, if given the chance, and might trade him for Pollard. Hopefully Flowers also, if he becomes a good player.
see, I was right folks, Tony G for a 2, wrong about rey rey/laurenitus, but we did want to deal back
DJ IS NOT A MLB, Told you
Pollard is gone told you that just because we spent picks on D players early doesnt mean a thing…other than they could boom or bust just like anyone else.