Second Look: Chiefs Pass Rush
Upon a second look, the Chiefs pass rush against New Orleans was just as invisible as the first look.
In 36 passing plays against the Kansas City defense, Saints QB Drew Brees was not sacked a single time.
That leaves the Chiefs with six sacks in 10 games. That works out to one sack every 52.7 passing plays.
That’s the worst pass rush in the NFL; Cincinnati is 31st with 11 sacks.
The Chiefs are well on their way to establishing a new franchise low for sacks; that’s 15 in nine games during the strike-shortened 1982 season. In a full 16-game season, the lowest total was 22 in 1976.
But this is even worse than that. The NFL record for pass rushing futility over a full season was established by the 1981 Baltimore Colts who had just 13 sacks in 16 games. The ‘82 Colts had just 11 sacks in nine games during the 1982 strike season.
Right now the Chiefs are on pace to have 10 sacks.
Now, let’s re-focus on Sunday’s game against New Orleans. The Saints came in as the league’s top passing team and they were among the best in protection. Brees had been sacked eight times in 362 passing plays, or on every 46.3 pass snaps.
The Chiefs were without DE Tamba Hali and rookie DE Brian Johnston. The No. 3 defensive end on the depth chart was Jason Babin, signed just last week to the roster.
It proved to be a mismatch in favor of the Saints. In 36 passing plays, Brees not only wasn’t sacked, he was in danger of being sacked just once. He was hit after the throw only two times. In 36 attempts, there were 30 were there was no pressure at all from the Chiefs.
There was certainly no pressure from the interior of the pass rush. Not once in those 36 throws was Brees’ vision blocked or delivery changed because of a body coming directly at him. Tank Tyler, Glenn Dorsey and Ron Edwards were virtually invisible.
What little pass rush pressure Brees may have noticed came from Babin. On the six passes where there was any pressure, Babin provided it on four of those. The other two came from blitzing LB Donnie Edwards and CB Maurice Leggett.
Only four times did Chiefs defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham send more than the four down linemen after Brees. Two of those were zone-blitz schemes in the first half, where Leggett and LB Rocky Boiman went after the quarterback, while DE Turk McBride dropped into coverage. On one play, the Chiefs sent six rushers, with Leggett and Boiman joining the front four. Leggett came through unblocked and forced Brees to release the ball. The pass was complete and brought a first down.
Most of the time, Brees got rid of the ball very quickly. On 36 attempts there were 19 passes where the time from snap to release was less than 2.5 seconds. There were 17 passes thrown with more than 2.5 seconds. On one play, Brees had 9.12 seconds from snap to release and faced no pressure. He had five attempts where he took more than three seconds to throw the ball.
Going into the game, the Chiefs knew that getting Brees on the ground was going to be tough. But pressure on him was vital to their chances of slowing down the Saints passing game.
They got no sacks and they had no pressure, continuing a trend that could lead them to the worst pass rushing season in pro football history.
Fire Gunther NOW!
Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.
AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!
DE is the obvious #1 need of this team. Top 5 pick in the draft next year? Only if Micheal Crabtree, WR TX Tech is NOT still available at their pick.
Chiefs MUST prioritize signing a FA at DE, also. Loosen the purse strings, Clark Hunt.
Speaking of him– If Clark Hunt is satisfied with this front office and coaching staff, who has led the team to win 1 game of the last 18, he has a screw loose. Seriously. Now. People.
You can’t blame it on injuries. You can’t say we’ll be better when the starters get back. The guys we have in there now are playing as well or better than the ones we had in September and October.
We don’t need more Receivers. Need to address the offensive and defensive lines in the draft those positions will determine whether we’re a winning team next year or right back in the same situation as this year. Drafting a receiver would only doom us to be the Detroit Lions they did 4 straight years in the first round. WE must get better atheletes in the trenches (right tackle and guard on offense and defenive end on defense).
When you go with the draft you take a risk that the guys will be good. It appears as if Turk, Glen and Tank are busts. On the other hand, Albert, Flowers and Bowe are future stars. You win some you lose some.
And I say in the 2009 draft if we’re going to just be stuck with the 7 picks we have now. Then go for the best athlete in those position based on where will be picking at in the first round. If the right tackle is a far better prospect than the defensive end in the first round then get the tackle and vice versa. Then go after the other in the next round based on which way you went first.
Ed, You don’t pass on a once-in-a-lifetime player. Ever.
Grab a DE, RT, RG, or S in the 2nd round and so on.
I don’t see what the big problem is with Tank and Turk. They have made improvements. Dorsey is far from a bust yet. I don’t know what you people are expecting out of the man?? He gets his share of pushes. It helps when he doesn’t have two or three guys to take on. He’s a rookie for pete’s sake and I don’t understand why everyone expects him to be all world? He’s gonna be fine. If you wanna call Hali a bust that’s one thing, he’s had HIS 3 years.
Who is a once in a lifetime player. Crabtree??? The guy is good but he’s no Randy Moss or Jerry Rice. Dwayne Bowe is just as good as Crabtree if not better. You thinking like Matt Millen. Receivers are a dime a dozen. You can always get receivers. Hell we have 3 good receivers now Bowe,Bradley, and pass catching tight end Gonzalez. You telling me adding a fourth is going to help the o-line pass or run block better. Give me a break. Or Crabtree going to help the defense get more pressure on the quarterback.
Look you don’t have to look no further than the Giants and Titans to see when you have a dominant offense and defensive line you’re going to be a good football team. Hell the Titans don’t even have a #1 receiver on their team let alone a number 2 receiver. They’re undefeated with number 3 receivers if those guys were on some other team. So don’t give me that can’t miss receiver crap they don’t make a huge difference in wins or losses your o-line and defensive lines do.
1) In today’s NFL there aren’t any once in a lifetime wide receivers. There are elite WRs, but a team can be really, really good with good WRs.
2) Two of the top DTs in the league are Albert Haynesworth and Tommie Harris. Dorsey is having a better rookie season than both of them did. Haynesworth could barely crack the starting lineup his rookie year. Dorsey will end up with more tackles (particularly solo tackles) than Harris had.
3) Tank and Turk are coming along nicely. Turk could and probably should be the starting LDE next season.
4) I like Michael Johnson from Georgia Tech in the 1st round.
Does anybody like Orakpo out of Texas? He is a senior and is quic, strong, and racking up sacks. Any down side to him other than he may be the next Vernon Gholston?
The problem comes in at “where” you draft in the first round. Not sure any of the DE’s are 1st or 2nd pick quality. Might be overpaying. If that is the case, an option would be to draft a Crabtree and then trade him to a team with a lower pick who picked up the DE you wanted OR trade the pick if there are buyers. Always have to have a willing partner though.
WR doesn’t seem to be the number one need either way. DE, OL, QB or LB seem to be the top priorities. It just depends on availability matching up with your place in the draft.
If the 2009 draft were today, the Chiefs would have the 2nd overall pick. If a “once-in-a-lifetime” player is available right there - the Chiefs have got to pick him, regardless of need.
Now I’ll give you that by the end of April 2009, Crabtree may not be that guy. Detroit, picking 1st, will likely take a QB. Then, if Crabtree is thought of that highly, he should be picked next.
What if the other blue chips are CB or OT? (I don’t see a DE being rated that high.) Are the Chiefs going to take a RT with that high a pick? I hope not.
I like Orakpo. He suffered a knee injury, but returned to practice today. I don’t think he is a top 5 talent, but a lot can change between now and April.
I agree they need to address the line positions first. Go either free agency or draft but these positions need to be top priority first DE,RG,RT,and Center I think Niswanger is decent but I like an upgrade at that position as well and then the other areas MLB,QB. You are 32 million dollars under the cap do not go crazy upon spending stay the course for the youth movement but get some veterans in the line’s key spots. Bob could you post the following free agents that contracts are up on other teams especially offensive and defensive lineman . How about Mike Peterson he wants out of Jacksonville a better MLB than what we have.
So I remember when the Chiefs drafted Hali I was super happy for a couple of reasons. This guy seemed like a character guy, someone who wouldn’t be a detriment in the locker room. He seemed to have a lot of passion, and also have lots of physical talent.
Now it’s starting to look like he may not be that good. I’m not going to label him as a bust but I wanted to see who the Chiefs could have picked defensively and man that makes my mouth water. here is about half a dozen better players than Hali that were picked AFTER him:
1: Mathias Kiwanuka DE NY Giants: part of that electric G-Men pass rush, he’s amassed 6.5 sacks so far this year for a dominant defense. His production has grown every year since his rookie year.
2. DEMECO RYAN LB Texans: This guy is a freak. His rookie season, he pummeled offensive players with 155 tackles (125 solo), last year 128, and this year so far 73 tackles. He may be getting double teamed thus reducing his tackles stats but this guy is amazing. Picked 2nd round AFTER Hali
3. Dawan Landry S Baltimore Ravens he’s injured but he’s making himself into a really good safety minted in the defense factory that is the ravens
4. Cortland Finnegan CB Tennessee Titans Playing in the best defense in the league. he has 4 interceptions and is becoming a really good corner
5. well now that i’m looking at it, there aren’t any good defensive ends or DT’s that came out of that draft AFTER hali, keeping in mind that Mario williams came off 1st
What is the measure of a “bust” and a “gem”? When can we say it is time to trade, or get rid of a bust due to lack of expected performance? I seem to remember a couple of years ago when many people were calling Kawika Mitchell a bust - we may find out Sunday when the Bills come to town. I remember when some were calling for Donnie Edwards to be traded because he was a bust the first time he was here. The Chargers sure appreciated that. I think that you can’t look at one player on the Defense (or offense) and label them bust, without looking at their experience, surrounding team members, the scheme, and the coaching.
My point is, just because we bring in a high priced free agent, doesn’t mean he will produce, and just because one of our guys isn’t producing, doesn’t mean he isn’t a Pro Bowler waiting to break out. There are combinations that play as factors.
There is absolutely no reason our defensive unit shouldn’t/couldn’t be within the top 10 in the NFL. I see excellent talent and 5 or 6 possible Pro Bowlers on our D. How they are brought together as an element and used in the manner to bring out their skills is the issue that must be addressed. I just hope Gunther and Herm are up to the challenge.
I have no problem with taking a RT with a top 5 pick. Especially if RG, and possibly C are addressed in the later rounds. We need a better line. The run blocking in the red zone was proof positive. Also, we should consider the possibility that Waters will only be here for a few more years and consider some late round projects for LG as well.
What is amazing to me is that Jared Allen obviously was not only a great pass rusher but also made the guys around him better. This year at Minnesota he doesn’t seem to be doing quite as well, exactly what combination’s of players work well together is the biggest mystery! Also I think Hali deserves a break cuz Herm tried to mess him up by switching sides. Why does Herm want to switch everybody around almost like he wants to stall the growth for a better draft pick!
Here’s the deal it don’t matter where this team has to pick at in the draft we need a right tackle first. Then get a defensive end in the next round. Drafting Crabtree would be a huge mistake because we have enough good receivers on this team. Drafting receivers will get us no where. The Bengals got a great quarterback and two good receivers and what has it done for them the last 5 years. The problem with them is the same for us bad offensive and defensive line.
And as far as drafting a tackle high in the draft. The Tuna did it last year with Jake Long as the 1st pick in the draft, and looks like its working out for them. To have another guy opposite of Albert will be great to build on to help this offense be able to be flexible in running and passing. Us having to go to a shotgun in a goal line situation because the right side of our offensive line was so bad was just ridiculous this past Sunday.
Either way we need to get a right tackle and guard and also add depth at the defensive end position. Real football people know the offensive and defensive line is what separates good teams from bad ones.
How long will Gunther slide by on the ghost of what he did in the ’90’s?
Anybody who labels Dorsey anything at this point in his development is foolhardy. It’s FAR too early to make any judgment. Hali will be much better if/when Dorsey develops into an impact player. If we were to add a dynamic D-end or linebacker thru free agency (The Ravens cannot sign Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs and Bart Scott,under their cap and they won’t let Ray go because he’s the face of the franchise.) Either Suggs or Scott are a big imrovement for us. Then continue to build talent and depth. I’m betting you won’t recognize this team next year.
Ed, if the Chiefs think Albert is their starter at left tackle for the future, I don’t see them using a top 5 pick on a right tackle IMO. Tuna took Long # 1, but he definitely projected as a left tackle. Not many projected right tackles are even first round picks.
just get ready for the next win they are coming with the youngsters at the helm we just need a few peices more to succeed the wins are coming
Here’s another angle to look at. Hali got to a certain point and IMO hasn’t progressed since. We saw improvements from Tyler at the begining of the year, and since then nothing. Who is behind all of those players? Krumrie, plain and simple. Yeah he was a great player for the Bengals, but a great player doesn’t always translate to great coach. The Star likes to print stories about Krumrie doing his endurance test with draft prospects, but I’d rather leave that kind of thing for the scouts to determine and get a D line coach that can maximize the talents of those given to him and bring them along, every year getting better. There are several coaching positions that the same thing could be said, and who “hand picked” his coaching staff when he arrived here at KC? Any questions?
Harm should be allowed to finish his 4 year contract, but just as soon as Carl is ousted (please Lord, let is be this season) the next GM needs to step in and lay it out for Harm and enforce some accountability.
Why not get a right tackle or guard that high. If its going to put the team over the hump. Too many fans pay too much attention to flash positions. Running back,wide receiver, cornerback. None of those positions will translate into wins. All you have to do is look at the Lions spending years chasing receivers. ANd continual losing. I don’t care if we really get a right tackle,guard, or defensive end but those positions need to be addressed first with the first 3 picks we have in the draft next year.
And please kill the Crabtree as a can’t miss prospect. So was Calvin Johnson and we’ve see how he’s made the Lions a winner lol. Besides he doesn’t even dominate every statiscal category at receiver in some area Dez Bryant has better numbers. Litsen like I said look at the Giants and Titans the reason they are successful is because they have a dominant offensive and defensive line. If receiver made a big difference in a team wins and losses then the Patriots had Moss last year who is unquestionably the most talented receiver to ever play the position. And it didn’t matter when they ran up on a team that had a defensive line that was knocking the snot out of the quarterback. And on offensive had a line that ran it down there throat.
If we want to win next year we don’t need to choose style over substance. We must fix our problems in the trenches on both sides of the ball.
Position in the draft does matter. You don’t take a RT with the 1st or 2nd pick. It’s about dollars. A very good RT can be had in the late 1st or 2nd round. LT is a different story. The top draft positions are slotted ($$ wise) so you can’t draft your RT at 1 or 2 and expect to pay him what RT’s make. He would command the 1 or 2 salary. That resets the entire market for RT’s and affects your future contracts with your OL. Much more to it than just drafting a position.
Besides, we have so many top needs, how can you isolate one position? A RT certainly isn’t going to “get us over the hump”. That hump is a mountain. Agreed that we need to draft OL, but when and where you draft them makes a big difference with your salary cap, now and in the future.
I agree B in SC but to me you use the draft to fill holes right now we have holes at right tackle and guard, defensive end, and of course linebacker. Like i said when it comes to us taking a right tackle,right guard, or defensive end i really don’t care a whole lot which order we take someone in those positions point is we need to do it. Because to build a winning teams its starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball.
So to me i dont’ care where we pick in the first round we need to address one of those 3 positions on the line. We don’t need to take another skill position player unless we trade Larry for more picks then I would say get a power running back. But if we keep him the first few picks in the draft needs to go toward offensive line and defensive end. I don’t care about the order it happens or the money factor. Truth is who wouldn’t pay big money for a good tackle or guard. The Jets spent money on there o-line this offseason and look at how good of a year Thomas is having. And Brett is benefiting from having the good protection. The trenches people its where the foundation of a team is built. And if we want to win next year we need to focus on building that foundation.
I can’t agree with everyone who says free agency is the way the team should go. The chiefs have picked up there fair share of free agents that haven’t done much, ty law and kendrell bell come to mind. The team is better off going in the direction its headed with youth. Look back the patriots did it through the draft, titans now are doing it through the draft a couple years ago. Vermiel did it through free agency and never won a playoff game nor had much of a defense, but they sure could score points, in the end, it didn’t matter.
KC has two kids in-house that could make a right tackle, Herb Taylor and Barry Richardson. Taylor would be starting at left if not for Albert. The defense needs a pass rusher and a playmaking LB. Great lineman come from all directions. Remember Szott? What about Waters? I think Sheilds was even a third rounder. Guys like Jared Allen coming from the fourth round are a rarity. Not so rare a great O-lineman, especially on the right side, going in later rounds.