Herm Speaks 12/9
From Arrowhead Stadium
There were a lot of questions and a lot of answers in Herm Edwards weekly Tuesday press conference.
A lot of that questions and discussion centered around the offense and the future of Tyler Thipgen.
Here are the highlights.
ON THE FUTURE OF THE SPREAD OFFENSE WITH THE CHIEFS
“We’ve got three weeks to decide. Me personally, I’m kind of leaning towards the way it’s going. I kind of like it, because we are able to control the clock and we are able to run the ball. That’s the whole key. You still have to run the ball in this league. I think we can still run the ball pretty good and we haven’t turned the ball over a lot. We’ve turned it over four times and that’s a good sign.”
Analysis: If the head coach is leaning towards keeping the spread, then what else do we need to know? Nobody is going to overrule Edwards. The Chiefs offense has turned the ball over six times since the Jets game when they went to the spread, that’s four Tyler Thigpen interceptions and two fumbles (Thigpen and Jamaal Charles.) There’s no question that Thigpen’s control of the football has made all the difference in the world. The moment this offense starts turning the ball over, the Chiefs will go back towards a more conventional attack.
The next three weeks are crucial for the future of the spread offense with the Chiefs. First, it’s the weather; all three of the final games will be played in cold weather. To survive, a team must run the ball and can’t rely just on the pass. Second, now that they’ve played in the spread for seven games, there is plenty of tape for opposing teams to watch. There are fewer and fewer surprises for the opponent. Three, that’s especially true for San Diego, the first Chiefs foe who will see the KC spread for a second time. It’s one thing to watch it on tape; it’s another thing to have experience against the offense in person.
THE SPREAD AND THE CHIEFS OFFENSIVE LINE
“This offense has really helped our offensive line. I think we’ve only had six sacks since we’ve gone into this. Before it was a bunch more. Since the Jets game it has only been six. It’s helped everybody.
“He’s (quarterback) in shotgun. he’s already standing where he’s going to be. He doesn’t have to drop back. Now it drops a little bit of your play-action stuff out, but he can get rid of the ball and you take people out of the box. That’s kind of helped us.”
Analysis: Herm’s memory of the pass protection in the spread is better than reality; since the Jets game, the Chiefs have allowed 15 sacks in seven games. That’s certainly better protection than what quarterbacks had in the first six games when they were dropped 18 times in the conventional pro-offensive set. Some might think the more mobile Thigpen has helped drop the sack totals. That would be true, but not for the reasons most people think. Mobile quarterbacks tend to get sacked more often than pocket passers. What Thigpen has done is this: when he’s felt the pass rush pressure, he’s taken off on the run; he’s not taken off to pass. Thigpen has tucked the ball and generally made positive yardage. If he was running around back there trying to throw the ball, his sack total would be higher, as would his interception total. There’s no question that the spread leaves running lanes for the quarterback to take off and run.
ON WHETHER THE FACT HE LIKES THE SPREAD SIGNALS A CHANGE IN THINKING FOR EDWARDS
“There are two things (that make it work for him): as long as you don’t turn it over and you can still run. You’ve got to be able to run the ball, especially now. See the weather out there? You’ve got to be able to run the ball if you are an outdoor team when it’s cold. Somewhere along the line you’ve got to run the football. I still believe when it’s third and two you don’t always have to throw a pass. You’ve got to be able to knock somebody off the ball and make a first down. If you get into the playoffs, I promise you those teams that send up in the final four, those are going to be teams that are physical and can run the football. The team that won the Super Bowl last year (New York Giants) can run the football. I don’t think you can get away from it. ”
COMMENT: If the Chiefs are going to use the spread as their offensive scheme it creates some interesting discussion and contemplation when it comes to the running game, starting with this: does Larry Johnson still fit? Is a big, power back workable in this offense, or should it be smaller, shiftier backs that are as good catching the ball as running. Johnson can still run the ball, but the fact the coaching staff feels they can’t leave him in on obvious passing situations makes his role very limited.
ON DERRICK JOHNSON’S PLAY AT MIDDLE LINEBACKER IN DENVER
“I thought he played pretty well. He did a good job. He’s going to be there for the next three weeks. What it has helped him do, he has to be more focused because he has to make all the checks. He has to set the front. I think that helps him stay in the game. He’s got to get the call and communicate that. He was very good on the sidelines I thought as far as saying ‘hey coach, this is what they are doing, what do you want to do here.’ We haven’t seen that before because he hadn’t been that guy. Now he’s that guy and he’s taken great pride in it. ”
ANALYSIS: D.J. may cement a new contract with the Chiefs if he shows he can play the middle. On the outside, he’s been too inconsistent or he would not have been moved inside. If Johnson shows he can handle the mental aspect of playing the middle, it paints a clearer picture for the Chiefs on their personnel needs for the defense in 2009.
I guess everyone forgot to ask herm, our resident defensive genius, why the QB was not touched one time during the entire game last sunday.
DJ is yet another draft pick who apparently is something less than adequate. Gee who would have thunk it?
Carl is looking for anyway to dump LJ that will not cost the chiefs money. Enought said on that subject.
The nice thing about LJ is that even if they do decide that they want to go in a different direction at RB, he’s played well enough this year to still have some trade value in the offseason. A team may want him to rework his deal first, but it’s a possibility that the Chiefs haven’t yet missed the boat on an LJ trade. Plus the fact that the Chiefs will reclaim 3.75 million of LJ’s guarantees due to his suspension will reduce the cap hit they’d take. (Not that they are in cap trouble or anything.)
Here’s a thought that more than a few of you will hate but makes a lot of sense for the Chiefs. Trade Larry Johnson to Cincy for Chad Johnson. Straight across, no draft picks involved. Cincy gets a legit RB and the Chiefs add a proven WR to their spread offense. Is Ocho Cinco a sure thing? Nope, but at this point, LJ is a luxury as well as a square peg in this offense. I’d be willing to take my chances with Charles, Smith, Battle and Savage next year. Bowe, Ocho, Bradley, and Gonzalez would be too much for anybody to want to cover on defense!
Plus, if Clark Hunt cares about $$$, can you imagine how much cash the Chiefs would make on the sales of all those thousands (yes THOUSANDS) of Ocho Cinco jerseys? Maybe enough cash for Clark to spend a little extra on good players this year. Is Chad Johnson more trouble than he’s worth? Quite possibly, but the same has been said (and at times proven) about LJ. A change of scenery could revitalize both of their careers.
Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.
AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!
Congrats Bob. You called Herm out on making stuff up, such as the sack total since the Jet game. He does it all the time, but it’s the first time I’ve ever seen you call him on it. I hope it’s the start of a trend that continues and ends in 4 weeks when Herm is replaced. Then you’ll be totally free to call him out on his tenure here, as you have done to Vermeil since he left. Good work, sir.
I wouldnt trade LJ for chad johnson. Ocho wants a new, big money contract and the chiefs wont pay for an older possesion reciever w/ attitude problems.
trade LJ for Portis. It would be a win-win for both teams and players. This would only work if the players (specially Portis) is able to restructure their contracts.
LJ trade? Probably not. Herm is not sold on the spread(neither am I). I saw Thigpen under center more against Denver than he has been since Chan went to the spread to give a young, inexperienced QB some chance of success. I don’t believe this is Herm’s long term offensive plan, nor do I believe it should be. How many spread offenses have won Superbowls? Indy and Manning? Not really. Indy’s offense is a bit of a hybrid with Manning in the shotgun a great deal of the time, but also under center and not a true, every down spread. I do enjoy daydreaming of the change of pace possibilities with the two philosophies melded into one. But, I believe it is what it is, KC’s coaching staff’s answer to having only one QB on the roster at one point whose only real experience was running the spread. Tyler better learn to play from center or he won’t stick as a starter for Edwards. By the way, Ocho Cinco is another TO and any team he plays for will be the worse for the distractions he brings.
I doubt the Chiefs will draft for the spread. They may come up with a hybrid of some sorts but the long term plan is not to make the spread the permanent offensive set.
Hopefully DJ did a lot of little things right because he didn’t show up that much otherwise. He needs a few games to adjust to the position. It is good to hear that he is taking on the leadership role of the Mike Backer.
The Lj situation will be interesting to see play out. The Chiefs are not done needing a power back, not as long as Herm is the coach anyway. But they may not rely as heavily on one so maybe LJ’s tenure is up here.
I am sure that Colby is just trying to stir the pot a little. Anyone that loves the Chiefs would not want Ocho anywhere near our team. Chad could probably help a veteran team but he would be the downturn of a young team like our Chiefs. I’m pretty sure Colby is smart enough to know that.
Bob hardly called out Herm. Hopefully Herm has better things to do than try to memorize all of the stats that are piling up on his team.
If I am not mistaken a couple – maybe several of the sacks were ones where Tyler went out of bounds before the line of scrimmage and also ran but pulled up short of the line for some reason. Those rookie mistakes are counted as sacks but realistically are more errors than condeming the o-line.
Ocho Cinco and his problems have no business here. Why trade one problem child for another?
To me, it seems as if Herm is beginning to think there’s a possibility we could somewhat emmulate Indy. This would only be successful with a qb that can be productive under center. Indy is a “hybrid” team because Manning is as good under center as he is in the spread. Herm is right that the OL HAS TO be able to line up & knock people off the ball. From center over to the right, we cannot. Additionally, the run game becomes limited in its ability to have “quick hitters”, cross-bucks, etc. from the shotgun/spread.
It will be interesting if he really commits to the “hybrid”. Perhaps Tebow is a possibility if he’s around.
I’d only trade LJ if the compensation was a combination of acceptible pics OR a top flight DE.
Why, exactly, does a QB need to be under center?
You can run other formations from a shotgun other than the spread.
We can do a power running game that can go both directions from the pistol.
So: why, exactly, does a QB need to be under center to be a “real” NFL QB?
Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.
AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!
Here’s my take on the spread keep it. Use it like Indy does kind of as a hybrid offense mix it in with some conventional style.
Next Larry runs great out of the spread when given the proper number of carries. He ran for 94 yards against Oakland. And 81 yard on 11 carries against Buffalo. So when he’s been given the opportunity he run well in the offense. Problem is play-calling hasn’t been consistent in runnning the football. Last week he only got 11 carries thats not nearly enough carries for a good running in a conventional or spread offense. If they can consistently give Larry the football throughout the game he can be effective.
And to Colby trade of Chad Johnson no way no how. That would be foolish. I’m with True Red and Gold on that. And Charles,Smith, and Battle in the backfield is not going to cut it. They couldn’t be productive in the running game when Larry was deactivated for a month. Message to the organization keep Larry. He still has about 2 to 3 years of over 1200 yards left in him. Improve the right side of the line and give him more than 11 carries and you will see the same Larry that ran the ball in 2005 and 2006.
Remeber he was hurt all of last year and the o-line was even worst last year than it is this year. And even this season when given the football he’s had good games. It amazes me how so many people are acting like the guy is washed up. LT for San Diego looks more washed up than Larry. And I don’t hear Chargers fans screaming to trade him. Ridiculous.
Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame, what I had pictured with Thigpen is the way the Donks used Elway, there are advantages to being under center but your right you can do a lot out of the shotgun too, Elway was great either way, and remember how much trouble the Donks offense gave Defenses?
Ed, Your right about 85, I wouldn’t want that punk on my team, if were going to take a chance with an attitude I’d keep the Johnson we already have, but if we can dump LJ for a 3rd rd pick I’d do that too in a heart beat.
But I see no sense in haveing two attitudes on the roster.