Herm Speaks 12/23
From Arrowhead Stadium
It may have been the shortest Tuesday session with the media horde that Herm Edwards has experienced during three years in Kansas City.
And, it wasn’t because Edwards lacked for anything to say or was in ill-humor. The media group was a skeleton crew at best and they’ve grown tired of asking the same questions week after week.
There were some good questions and some good answers from the head coach. Here they are.
ON WHETHER AFTER THIS TOUGH SEASON HE’S BURNED OUT?
“I’ve got a lot of energy and I think the thing that gives me the most energy is these young guys we have. Their ability to recover after a bunch of hard losses; we’ve been in a bunch of football games that we haven’t won this year and I think that will pay dividends with this football team next year. With youth, every time they show up after a hard loss, we go through film with them and they’re optimistic and they’re excited about the next week’s opponent. It’s a credit to the players, how they bounce back after a tough loss every week.”
Comment: I’ve been around Herm Edwards nearly every day since the season started way back in the last week of July in River Falls. I know there have been times when the season weighed on his shoulders. I’m sure with others around the team’s building who are his confidants he shared moments of anger and despair. But publicly, in front of his team, in front of his coaches and especially in front of the media, the frustration was buttoned up and it was always about the next game, the next day, that afternoon’s practice. “One of the greatest examples of leadership I’ve ever seen,” said special teams coach Mike Priefer, who saw leadership in a different forum than football when he was flying helicopters in the Navy. That the Chiefs bounced back from 10-0 last Sunday and made a game of it with the Dolphins was testimony to their pride. That pride has been grown by the way Edwards has handled himself and this season.
ON HOW MUCH OF THE FOUNDATION HAS BEEN LAID THIS SEASON?
“Oh, 85 percent of it is done now. It’s just a matter of another draft and free agency, and then you’re going to have your team built, for the most part. Then it’s just a matter of, from there, continuing to grow on that. The hard part is done. All the foundation, all the work, has been laid for what’s going to transpire for years to come now if you keep your head down this path. That’s the path that we’re going to head in, through the draft and be very selective in free agency. The core of your players are going to be drafted Chiefs. That’s kind of the core of the team now.”
Analysis: Me thinks the coach might have been a bit rich with his assessment of 85 percent. If you look at 25 top positions on the team, 22 starters, kicker, punter and return man, 85 percent would mean that 21 positions are solid or have a body in the pipeline ready to go. On offense, this team is going to need a right guard and right tackle and we won’t even mention quarterback. On defense the Chiefs need a pair of linebackers and a pass rusher up front. They will also need another inside presence, with Alfonso Boone hitting 33 and Ron Edwards 30 in ‘09. On special teams they need a returner who can take the ball to the house and they may need a kicker, since Connor Barth has not exactly locked up the position. You’ve got to factor in that one of those new faces from the past two seasons won’t be able to make it and that leaves the Chiefs with a foundation about 65 to 70 percent built. This team is still six to seven players away.
ON HOW THE APPROACH WILL BE DIFFERENT IN ‘09 THAN ‘08.
“The good thing that happened this year, there’s still some good in all this, is that you evaluated almost every player you had on the roster. You know where they’re at. They got playing experience, which is hard to do over the course of a season when you don’t have injuries or whatever. We’ve evaluated a lot of football players, we know what they are. Some guys that are starting, maybe we’re asking too much of them, when it’s all said and done. You don’t know that until they play. Now we know. You look at 96 percent of the players on this roster have played in games and have played a significant amount of football games. Now there’s always that five percent, four percent that didn’t play enough, but that’s anywhere. To be able to evaluate your football team like this is a tremendous help for you because now you know going into next season exactly where your guys stand. You don’t have to project what they’re going to be, you’ve got a whole season of showing what kind of player he can be, so that’s the good part.”
Comment: Look at the Chiefs draft class of 12 players. They saw plenty of playing time from eight of the 12. Sixth-round tackle Barry Richardson hasn’t played and remains a project. Sixth-round returner Kevin Robinson played about half the season and didn’t wow anybody with his return ability. Seventh-round defensive end Brian Johnston showed raw ability but because of injury he didn’t play long enough to know if he’s up to the battles of a full NFL season. Seventh-round tight end Michael Merritt missed the first third of the season and has not played in a game since being added to the active roster. The questions that need to be answered by the new GM and Edwards or a new coach are items like whether Brandon Carr is good enough to be a starting corner in the league. His play dipped over the last six weeks of the season. He’s also been battling a shoulder injury that’s made things difficult for him when it comes to contact. There are questions about whether DT Glenn Dorsey can bring the explosion to the interior of the defense that is so needed. RB Jamaal Charles has the speed and the moves, but does he have the stamina, body-type and focus to stay available and not fumble the ball. WR Will Franklin and S DaJuan Morgan saw playing time and were very inconsistent in what they brought to the effort.
Edwards is correct that there is plenty of tape for any knowledgeable football to look at and make some early assessments.
HOW DO YOU MOTIVATE A TEAM WITH NOTHING TO PLAY FOR
“It’s the last football game we get to play this year … when you get between the lines as a football player, you want to play football. That’s the great part about it. Cincinnati will play hard, we’ll play hard. When you watch both teams play this week, you won’t realize what the records are. You’ll see a competitive game, in my opinion. I know how Marvin coaches, I have a lot of respect for him and he’ll have his guys ready to play.”
Analysis: After everything that’s happened, it would be hard for me to believe the Chiefs would suddenly choose this Sunday to lie down, roll over and quit. They will play hard, if not always smart or clutch. The effort will be there.
Good assessment Bob. I agree we need to fill in some holes. However I do think quarterback is a position where we’re preety solid. What Tyler have accomplished isn’t bad for a 3rd string guy who struggled and bounced back from early adversity in the season. That is still not to say if there is someone in the draft they the organization feels strongly about they shouldn’t pass them up. Or even free agency. That being said they need to develop Tyler in the offseason. The main thing I blame Herm for is putting too much faith in Brodie when he hasn’t shown you anything in a live game. He may shown it in practice or training camp but that don’t matter when its not shown in a real game. That being said they need put forth the effort in developing Tyler and bring in some competition to push him.
85%. That’s hilarious.
Agreed on Thigpen ED. Even though he’s flashed potential, he needs some good competition going into 2009. Quinn Gray is a good replacement for Huard, but Brodie may not even be a worthy of a roster spot or be healthy by preseason. I’d like to see them either draft a QB early, or, preferably, bring in a veteran to push Thigpen like a JP Losman or a Rex Grossman.
Or, Pioli can get us McDaniels to coach and get Cassel. Perhaps Thigpen would fetch us a nice draft pick then. It’s all just speculation from here on out.
85%….spoken like a man who is desperately trying to keep his job. Herm’s assessment of the need to rebuild was correct. His execution was an utter failure, from his selection of defensive coaches, to his crowning Croyle the king of the offense. Those mistakes should rightly cost Herm his job.
85% means no free agency aquisitions
In itself, the way they used Dorsey is enough to get most of the defensive staff of coaches fired. The DB coach seems to be doing pretty good, other than that…
2008 draft could add 4 starters…not bad. If they can do the same in 2009 they are making big progress. Herm just cannot coach on gameday. Nothing in his carear has ever shown that. I think we all hoped he would get better; he has not. How about Billick as coach and Nolan as defensive coordinator?
ALL
Rin remembers fondly the AFL Houston Oilers of 1967, the youngest team in pro football – from the depths of a last place 3-11 finish in 1966, the Oilers went to an all out youth program and went from worst to 1st…they were but one game from Superbowl II when their season ended.
For every abberation Houston Oilers there are several more like the 1967 Denver Broncos who were the second youngest team – and showed it – finishing 3-11. The Herm of that day was the migrant coach Lou Saban.
Or, the 1967 Oakland Raiders, who despite talent on par with or better than any pro team including KC’s, couldn’t win a Superbowl until 1977, this in the ‘great’? John Madden’s 10th season. Yup, the Raiders should have fired that loser Madden years before that…huh.
The upshot: HOUSTON, despite it’s seeming ‘head start’ never did/never has reached a Superbowl, to this very day. The Broncos eventually did so, going to five Superbowls…Saban was the man who turned it around but alas as was Lou’s want, he always wanted what was just up ahead ’round the next corner, and left before it happened on his watch (in fact DEN was about to lose the Broncos to another city before the ‘67 season and only a huge push to save the team/sell tickets/and get stadium upgrade approval kept them there.)
While a Denver might suggest the Chiefs 2008 for comparison sake and Houston the Dolphins of ‘08, the fact is there is not much difference between Miami ‘08 & KC ‘08. The records may be different, but anyone who watched those two teams play last Sunday cannot deny that mere 7 point difference, any more than the fact MIA escaped with a win by the skin of its teeth.
This just affirms what Herm’s been saying: the Chiefs youth is being served, both as to their football edification out of necessity, and too being schooled by a more veteran team, in MIAs case at the QB position especially – that being the difference in the game – the schooling this year to give way to pupil advancing come 2009.
‘That’ is the difference between a 10-5 team and an 3-12 one…seven points & a boatload more of experience. As such, if that’s all the better a 10-5 team is than an 3-12 one, think I’ll stick with Herm Edwards and his plans for the Chiefs. Ditto for all those other like close games the Chiefs lost this season.
The NFL is all about close games – and yet, with experience gained & foundation laid plus another draft and free agency to augment what Herm began, the losses of 2008 will become the wins 2009…I firmly believe that.
The Chiefs are ‘that’ close: a 38-31 Miami win does not equate to being 10-5 better than 3-12, any more than those other close losses make the winners any better than the close shave they got from the Chiefs. If this year’s potential be but a prelude to tomorrow, can’t wait for 2009 post draft, free agency and post Carl. If Herm doesn’t come back, Rin will remain a Chiefs fan as he has since 1963, yet, the truth will be any new Coach will be benefiting from the foundation Herm built.
Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.
AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!
Can Thiggy run a traditional offense? I think not, and that affects how you draft at QB. If you keep the spread, then Thiggy is a starter, and you can get a Pat White-type later in the draft.
If you want a traditional offense, then Croyle is a backup. KC needs to spend an early pick on a QB that might be able to start day one.
Haven’t seen Gray enough to know where he fits. Might be able to back up in either offense, although it seems to me he’s alot like David Garrard. Probably not a spread offense guy.
We need OL and help in the front 7 of defense, regardless of what we do at QB.
I agree with everything Herm said except the “85%” statement (see below). What has been stated above and can not be over-emphasized is the tremendous “opportunity” that all of our injuries allowed in playing time of draft picks and street free agents on both sides of the ball and in special teams. NO team has ever had this much exposure of their young guys to this much playing time (and I pray to God we don’t have even a 1/5th of these injuries next year). Where Herm may be right on the 85% is that 85% of the 53 man roster may be set and yet if we could upgrade 6-7 starters how many of these close game 08′ losses would be victories in 09! Finally, there should be a world of growth in 09′ from not just the rookies to 2nd year but also the 2nd year to 3rd year players. We asked for (demanded) improvement from the beginning of the year to the end of the year and we got it and now that improvement should continue into wins next season.
If I were the new GM this is what I would do:
Pick up Haynesworth and either Peppers or Suggs in free agency, -DL solved (This would do wonders for our secondary as well, who are already pretty good)
Then, in the draft take curry in the first and in the 2nd get one of the top 3 ILB’s as I do not see 3 going in the first,(Spikes hopefully)- LB solved
In the 3rd hopefully Loadholt or Duke Robinson is still there and in the 4th address whichever position was not filled in the 3rd round. In the 5th round I would look for another OL (perhaps Center)- OL solved
Then in the 6th I find the next Tom Brady- QB solved
It seems 2 me that every1 is missing the bigger picture we only needed 2 finish 8-8 and would have been able 2 compete for a playoff spot(inexperience cost us an extra 7 victories)! All the Herm haters are calling for his head…but what about “The Great Shanahan” and his star qb they underachieved and what about “The Great Norv” and his qb they well underachieved. I think we can pretty much label thier team and qbs as a bunch of veterans. So why is it that no1 is talking about firing these guys? My point is this, Herm has laid a foundation of solid young talent for this orginization and any “REAL” fan can see this so, how about we stop trying 2 sample the cookie dough and wait until cookies r finally done 2 pass judgement on how they look and taste! Herm for 2009 and BEYOND!!!!!!!!!!
The only way I would pause on taking Smith/Oher is if Bradford is available, then I pause and…. I’ll answer that if and when we come to it.
Remember there is “ah many a slip tween a cup and a lip”
Because of the likelihood that their will be drastic rookie salary caps in the 2010 season and beyond, I fully expect a RECORD number of underclassmen to declare for the 2009 draft.
That being said, at this point, I would do everything possible to trade down and acquire more picks regardless who is their when the chiefs pick 2nd or 3rd overall.
In the same manner, I would likely trade TG and or LJ if their is any respectable trade value at all.
The chiefs are deep at RB, and their are at least 3 highly rated TE in this draft that could fill TG pass catching role. It would be worth getting since Cottam does not have much recieving production, though he has ability.
Alex, two problems with your comments:
1) “anyone who doesn’t agree with me isn’t a ‘real’ fan”. And we’re supposed to take you seriously now?
2) No one is judging the rebuilding/youth-movement too early. What some are judging is Herm’s ability to be a head coach and those cookies have been in the oven for 8 years and the recipe sucks
On Herm in ‘09, If Clark Hunt hires someone as GM who has had a previous relationship with Herm on another team, I would think his chances of retention as head coach would be better than average. Hunt is on record as saying he wants a GM with “fresh eyes”. That doesn’t sound like someone who has been around long enough to know Edwards personally. Hunt also said the new GM would “weigh heavily” on the Herm decision. I think that means whether Herm’s rebuild is on track and the question of his proficiency as a head coach are moot points. His future in KC according to what I have read from Hunt is contingent on who is hired as GM. That being said, it would seem his chances of being in KC next year are less than 50-50. As this season comes to a close, and not that my opinion matters as much as anyone else’s blogging away here,IMO Edwards is a masterful motivator. He has somehow managed to keep his team playing hard every week in spite of their record. His first half game planning is very good, but, he has yet to show he can manage a second half. Finally, KC’s defense is inexcusable. Edward’s has worked on implementing the Tampa 2 for three years. He did not dismantle the defense (except for the Jared Allen thing) this year like he did the offense. Go back and look at how defense heavy the last three drafts have been(four actually going back to Vermeil’s last year).The defense has gone from mediocre to pathetic. There has been nothing but regression from the defense excluding takeaways. While I see some things that will have me looking forward to opening day next year, I really don’t think it will be Herm Edward’s team next fall.
Makes you wonder if QBs from small schools try harder because they have more to prove , I dont nean this as the rule , but sometimes it happens .
Tylers first half performances are getting better and better ,hes looking good–second half —-? They need a bull pin and ,I dont know what you would call it in football .
Fill that BULL PIN ( Gray– Ryan, Placo, types ? )
Thinking out loud , I guess .
Larry, excellent post, and the biggest failing of Herm Edwards, the total collapse of the D that has all players he’s selected. That’s why he’s a goner, thank the lord.
Bob, it’s about time you finally questionned Dorsey’s future, instead of the “he’s a rookie, he’s doing fine” stuff. Fact is, he’s absolutely stunk this year, worse than Ryan Sims did as a rookie. He’s made some tackles, but never gets any push, never makes any big plays. He’s just there, getting manhandled. Lately he’s being handled easily one on one. If he turns out to be a bust, we are seriously in trouble. It’s too early to say, but the early signs are not encouraging. Tenn played a rookie DT 2nd round draft choice this week, Jason Jones, replacing Haynesworth, with no Van Den Bosch to protect him, and he did more disruption in one game than Dorsey’s done all season. The Giants got far more rookie DT production from 4th rounder Barry Cofield as a rookie than Dorsey has provided. If they were playing Dorsey incorrectly, why and who are responsible? Is he overweight, as Whitless claims? Waters thinks Dorsey is being utilized incorrectly. I loved the pick, it was a no brainer, but at the least, his play has been exceedingly disappointing, and the rookie excuse is fading, and will be officially off next year.
Maybe it’s just continued horrible D Line Coaching, where every young DL guy, except Jared Allen, who has come here over the last half decade, has not developed into much, and that includes tons of early draft choices. Wilkerson has been terriffic in TB, and he was severely underutilized here. Terdell Sands has been a good player in Oaklnad. Even Sims has been much improved in Tampa Bay. Something is wrong here with how Defensive Linemen play and develop.
KC doesn’t need differnt players in the second half, just a different way of playing. Every team goes in at half time and makes adjustments to the game plan. For some reason, KC’s adjustments just don’t take. I keep hoping that Chan and Herm will put TT under center in the first drive of the second half and give LJ the football. I think it would be worth a try to mix the pro set with the spread for three reasons, one to keep the other team off balance, two to give TT the chance to learn the pro set, and finally, because LJ is usually better later in games.
Running back is defiantly a position of need.
Not dire need but of need, especially if they trade LJ, we don’t know how K Smith will respond after major knee surgery, Charles is a big ?, Battle is an unknown, Savage is not ever going to be an every down back. Full Back is ok but NO DEPTH!
We still need a #1 Wide Out, Tight End is a ? after Tony G.
Than there’s the Defense too,it needs a DE, 2 starting LB’s, another Safety, and depth every where.
It would be pretty hard to TOTALY blow this draft.
85% means Herm has too much rum in the egg nog
Larry , there was a coment once that D. Hall was told by a realtive not to run sideways , do to the risk of injury being greater . A coment that has no meaning , due to the fact theres no proof .
There is a part of life that not everone sees.
If this is possible , look at what this does to ———-
The owner
Head coach
Def. coach
Fans @ more
Herm’s 85%?
I have to say,
cough … cough…Bull Sh*t…cough…cough…
to that.
Well, chew on this one everyone. Adam Shefter of the NFL-N stated that Herm has advised all his assistant coaches to start looking for work elsewhere for 2009 and most of them have already begun calling around the league in search of employment.
What does that sound like?
Attention all rah rah guys, this hater has said ad nausium this team is not complete. herm says 85 percent but Bob even say 7 starter. The choices of herm have set this rebuild to be complete in 2 to 4 more years. It did not have to be this way but it was herms choice.
Remember a guy in Miami rebuild a team in one off season. I know you will say it will not last long, get real, most fans want NOW and next year
not in 2010. There no garantees this rebuild will work anyway. I would like to be mentioned on ESPN as something other than road kill. I want to see light at the end of tunnel. I want a head coach who is one.
Wow, folks, let’s try to type from the head and not the heart.
I think 85% is a bit exaggerated, but the Chiefs have rebuilt more than half of the team. Does OL, WR, DBs, QB, RB, look better than last year? Herm may or may not get to stay, you can make a great argument on either side, but let’s get to the big picture.
What kind of offense will we run next year? That will determine how many picks or FAs need to go to the offense. Front 7 definitely needs help on defense. Has Dorsey been misused?
AFC West will not be as easy to take next year as it would have been this year, but who would have thought Dolphins would sneak in AFC East with a chance to win this year? Are we trying to rebuild in one year, or for the long run? Donovan McNabb could be next year’s Chad Pennington, as the Eagles appear ready to kick him to the curb. Might not be a FA,however.
Moving to the off-season, we have to see the big picture.
I think KC needs to answer
Herm didn’t say he had 85% of his starters (although that may have been what he meant). 85% of the 53 man roster would be 42 players and I think it is believable that they have 42 players who could be part of a playoff team. His comment that they are asking too much of some of the players makes me think some of the starters would make quality backups so adding 6 or 7 starters as Bob suggests wouldn’t invalidate his 85% remark. In an interview early in the year Herm said they needed 6 more starters, 3 of which might be able to be filled by players already on the team developing.
I keep harping on the Dorsey thing. Yes, he’s been used incorrectly all year. And yes, he may be somewhat overweight, but even Waters said he better be or he would get killed the way they’re playing him, head up over the guard. He’s being ask to hold up at least two OL to free up LB’s, and he does most times.
I watched the replay of the Miami game on NFL network last night, focusing on Dorsey. Nearly every play, straight up over the guard, double-teamed by guard and center. Once in awhile, when they were stunting (which KC does very little of, another problem) he moved closer in to the center.
I have no idea if Dorsey will be the player everyone thought he would, but if he’s not put in the best position to be successful, taking advatage of his best attributes, it’s not a fair look. And, as everyone else knows and many have stated here, much has been put into the D, especially the DL, with no result. Can’t be an accident, and no way all those players were the opposite of what everyone thought they were. It’s coaching. It’s scheme, and using players best sutied to their talent.
What did you guys expect to happen to the defense when Jared left. Why were the expectations so high on the defense when Jared Allen was gone. I knew this would set the defense back. And I knew Dorsey wasn’t going to be much of a factor this year. Trading Allen on defense would be the equivalent to trading Gonzalez on offense its going to be a set back. ONce KC finds another stand out pass rusher and Dorsey continues to develop the defense will be fine. The bigger issue is getting rid of Gunther to me. I say thats the equivalent of getting rid of Peterson. I don’t see this defense being dominant until they get a defensive coord. that is more in tune with the Cover 2 scheme and knows how to develop linebackers and a defensive line.
And Colby hell no!!!! to Jp Losman or Rex Grossman I rather Quinn Gray challenge him for the job. I was a big JP guy early this season until he started the last few games with the Bills he’s been awful.
85% ?? too bad so many of you have such a distaste for optimism.
So at 85% you win 2 games? I am not very good at math but with lets say 10% more because no team is ever 100% so that equals what 2 more wins. See Herm is already getting his positive spin going for next years rebuilding…….. 4 wins,Go Chiefs I like Herm but not as the coach, he needs to be like team chaplain or mentor or something.
Funny how everyone keeps harping on Gunther when the special teams have been 10 times worse then the D. I still think that Herm is ham-stringing Gun’s defence. You saw what he could do with this group in the first Denver game… Next week it was back to the ho hum prevent crap that Herm prefers.
Lets not even mention the ever revolving door at just about every position this season because of injury.
If herm ham-stringing GUn then who did it to Gunther when Vermeil was here Dester please. The guy sucks as a defensive coord. plain and simple and needs to be fired along with the special teams coach. Its just that simple.
LMAO DAVE H, “Team Chaplin or Mentor”
well really 85% of 53 man roster is 45 players, and there not starters, the question was the percentage of the foundation laid and the answer was 85% percent, that means they have a bunch of rookies some are starters and some aren’t. The math is not that hard to understand. Anyway the point is there are some people starting who wont next year and will be decent backups. They have experience now.
I think if the chiefs bring in Derrick Anderson (they could get him for a steal) for competition and Tyler can learn the pro offense over the offseason, he could be are starting QB next year, given the game experience he has gotten this year. Why would you draft a QB in the top 3 ever? Are there really that can’t miss prospects coming out? for every Manning there is ryan leaf, eric crouch, tim couch…
Herm has been to the playoffs more than the chiefs have been to the playoffs in the past 8 years… he should be the coach next year and beyond!!!
I think the chiefs are on the verge of a great year ahead. Keeping Herm another year is critical to our future success. What he has accomplished this year is nothing short of greatness. Last year was terrible, some of the games I literally had to walk away from the tv to avoid embarrasment. We were not even competitive. This year I saw lots of hope,potential, and spirit of play. I truly believe Herm had alot to do with the significent improvement this year.If you think about it, the chiefs were in alot of close games this year. Only 2 or 3 plays and players away from victory. We could feasibly be an 8-8 team right now and thinking playoffs (afc west) I am looking forward to the draft and the 2009 season. The youth movement is working, give Herm a pat on the back and pray he will be here next year. “Think Dynasty” Mr. Rin tin tin I’ve enjoyed reading your in depth responses. I sense intelligence and a sincere Chiefs Fan lurking in that mind of yours. heh heh heh. Merry Christmas everybody.
The chiefs fans on here that are looking for instant gratification are annoying… You should take consolation that the team looks and is playing better then a team who has went out into FA the past couple of years and still doesn’t have a win yet this season… The chiefs are looking like they could take the division next year even with the tough schedule ahead, NFC East…
I just don’t get the 2 or 3 players from victory thing. If that was the case there would always be the exact same mistakes made and the exact same players making them. I think the 3 constants on this team and I agree with other posters is horrible d line and the d is a whole. We were twice as good at d last year and with more free agent signings we were worse. Special teams are also horribly inconsistent. You can make excuses for injuries but that happens to every team every year and you have to coach to overcome it. The team as a whole is better but I think big change is needed, still. I vote Herm head coach of Attitude and Gamesmanship coach , let some one else handle game decisions.
Keep up the great work Coach Edwards! See you back here in KC in 2009!