Herm Speaks – Volume #7
For once, Herm Edwards’ Tuesday session with the media horde was about football. Oh, there were questions about Larry Johnson for sure, but the head coach swatted those away because it’s all out of the team’s hands right now. Johnson’s immediate future rests with the league.
The Chiefs immediate past is 1-6 and their immediate future is the Tampa Bay Bucs, coming to town this Sunday.
Here’s some of what the coach had to say.
ON TAMPA BAY AND ITS DEFENSE
“Defensively, they’re back to playing Buc-Ball, as we called it. They don’t give up a lot of big plays, not a lot of big runs or a lot of big passes. They hold you to about 15 points a game. They can rush the passer. They tackle real well. They’re built for speed, very aggressive that way and can blitz you a lot. They blitz a lot on third downs, bring pressure and put it on the quarterback. They played in a one-score game last week. They held Dallas to one touchdown. It is going to be a test for us – probably one of the best defenses we’ll play all year. Tennessee was very good and these guys are right up there with Tennessee. Not as big, but just fast; that’s how they were built.”
Translation: Oh, how Herm wishes he had a defense like the one that’s coming in to Arrowhead. Just run down the things Edwards said about the Bucs D and the Chiefs have just the opposite. They don’t give up big plays … they hold opponents to 15 points a game … they rush the passer … they tackle real well … they are very aggressive and blitz a lot on third down. His description is what the Chiefs coach dreams of for his defense and right now, it’s the exact opposite.
ON CONTINUING THE SPREAD OFFENSIVE SCHEME
“If people get a bead on what you’re doing the first thing they do is attack you. We caught the Jets a little bit by surprise because we stayed in it a lot and they hadn’t practiced against it. Monte (Kiffin, Tampa Bay defensive coordinator) will see it on tape and it’s not a surprise any more. They’ll have something for it. The first thing you do is bring pressure and try to knock the quarterback down. You leave your edges open all the time when you spread people out. You leave your tackles in space and you’re vulnerable to blitzes. You’ve got to get the ball out fast. You can run it some but we didn’t have a lot of runs in that offense. There are some positives in it and some negatives but you don’t live in it, that’s for sure.”
Analysis: NFL coaches can’t agree on many things, but they seem 99 percent in agreement that the spread offense will not work in pro football. Whether they are correct, or stuck in the mud of old-time football, we may never know. But there’s no question that defensive players are faster and stronger on the NFL level, and that makes the spread tougher to run because of the pressure that can come off the edges of the defense. It is something that every team has in their offensive playbook, but few dial up in situations other than the two-minute offense. The Chiefs success with the spread under Tyler Thigpen last Sunday against the Jets is one thing. Being able to do two weeks in a row, and do it against a top five defense like Tampa Bay is another.
WHETHER HE’S COMFORTABLE WITH THE SPREAD AS PART OF HIS OFFENSE
“Oh, I’m comfortable using it. I’m comfortable moving the ball and trying to score points. That’s what you’re trying to do. Whatever it takes to do that, we’ll do it. But it still goes back to running; you still have to run the ball whether you’re in the spread or a traditional offense. You have to be able to run the ball and become a balanced football team. If you’re not balanced and play unbalanced and, especially if you have to throw the ball a lot, you generally don’t win those games.”
Comment: What Herm’s really saying is ‘I don’t like the spread, I don’t believe in the spread, but right now if the offense can produce in the spread, I’m all for it because nothing else was working anyway.’
ON WHAT TO EXPECT NOW FROM TYLER THIGPEN
“The guy’s only played two games. He had a good game; he did some things very well. He threw the ball very well; he didn’t turn the ball over. But there are some throws that if he would have made them, (the outcome) may have been a little different too. That’s part of the process to learn how to play in this league. But this will be a good test for him. This is a good defense. They can bring pressure. They can drop in coverage. They can rush four guys. They blitz on the strong side, the weak side, out of the nickel. You’ve got to be ready. I’ve been with Monte a long time and I know how he thinks. He’s going to put pressure on the quarterback. No doubt about it.”
Analysis: The fact that Thigpen didn’t stink like he did against Atlanta in his first start has turned people’s heads when analyzing this second start. There’s no question Thigpen showed improvement and that’s all any coach can ask from an inexperienced player. But now, he has to go out and show improvement on what he did against the Jets. The New York game may have been the best Thigpen ever plays. The head coach isn’t ready yet to build his offensive future on the shoulders of the Chanticleer from Coastal Carolina. But he is ready to give him another chance.
ON INCREASED PASS RUSH PRESSURE LAST WEEK AGAINST JETS
“I think Tamba (Hali) going to the other side helped us a little bit. I think he felt more comfortable over there … He was over there for two years and we decided to move him back over there. And he’s healthy. The last three games he wasn’t healthy. He had a knee (injury) and couldn’t maneuver as he’s capable of doing.”
Analysis: There’s no question that Hali was a bigger factor in the game back at left end than he ever was at right end. Hali got a sack and he had his mitts on Brett Favre several other times, hitting the quarterback on one of those interceptions in the first half. If that move is what it takes for Hali to become productive, then that’s what they’ll do.
i wish someone would of asked him why he didnt go for it on 4&1 when Thigpen pretty much couldnt make a mistake that day but rather give it to one of the best QB of all time so he can drive down the field for a game winning TD. If we would of won that game that would of been great for our young players and especially Thigpen what a boost of confidence that would of been knowing he played a great game and outshined BRETT FAVRE! But of course we know the plays that were called on that drive resulting in a 3 and out i dont care what Chan said in the media that was Herm’s calls at the end of the game not his.
Whats more likely we converting on 4th and 1 or Brett driving his team down for the win i would of chosen conerting a 4th and 1 just QB sneak it JESUS. No one expected for us to win that game and being 1 yard away from most likely winning and not doing it its complete bull#$%*. Let our team have a win Herm PLEASE!
p.s. i hate your guts
hey guys click the link below to see the 5 goats of the weekend 2 of them belong to the Chiefs hmmm
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/pgStory?contentId=8726096&MSNHPHMA#sport=Adam%20Schein&photo=8728234
Criticizing Herm for the 3 runs at the 5 minute mark is fair and justified. At least One of those plays should have let Thigpen have the ball in his hands on a run/pass option. But criticizing him for not going for it on 4th and 1 from HIS OWN 29, up by 3, with 3 minutes to go is ridiculous. It’s an absolutely horrible % play. You’re giving them Field Goal position. No Coach in his right mind would go for it in that situation. I think Herm’s a dreadful head coach, but even he would not be stupid enough to do that.
How do you not believe in something that works? I water the yard and my plants and flowers grow. Hmm even though they grew-I don’t believe in water-thats Herms logic with the effective spread we ran last week-if he continues to neuter the offense to run his 1955 old school never pass punt punt punt offense-I will 100% lose all faith in this organization.
If you want to get Thigpen killed, just start running that spread offense on exclusive or even consistent basis!
call me crazy but i still stick with going for it on that 4 and 1 we were not suppose to win that game or even be in it and the chance was presented to us to put the game further out of reach. We make it we have an awesome shot at winning we dont convert we lose we punt to one of the best QB’s ever for a potential game winning drive we lose. I believe most of Chiefs nation new once we punted the ball it was pretty much over and well you know what happened. Its a lot easier to get 1 stinking yard than to stop Brett Favre on a game winning drive.
Mark,
Here’s a story of a coach that was “stupid enough to do that” (go for it on 4th and 1 from their own 29). The result…it didn’t work! I never thought Switzer was in his right mind.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE2DB1639F932A25751C1A963958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
for every instance that you find a play ‘work’, you can find another time when it didnt work. That being said, the RRRP thing was idiotic and lost the game.
John – I think they will have to run the spread until they get a running back they can count on. At least in the spread, Thigpen can see who is coming before they are on him and it seemed like he could move around a little bit to get a better view of the field. He is short and I think he gets lost when he drops back from under center.
We can’t run the ball with the right side of our line. The worst part about the game was that if we hadn’t run 3 times for 9 yards, Kolby Smith would have had these stats:
8 rushes, 6 yards, 0.75 ypc
We need to run the spread for a little while. It’ll help us with the run game anyways because maybe they won’t put 8 men in the box…
If the only thing that Tyler can be successful in is the spread, he will never be a legit NFL QB. He needs an opportunity to become a complete QB.
Jay, you probably should try to move on. The blunder that is keeping you up at night was 3 days ago now. Most bloggers are interested in the next game. If players or coaches dwelled on the bad things for that long they wouldn’t be around long. And to answer what is bothering you. Was Herm’s last offensive series the wrong call? Of course it was IT DIDN’T WORK!
What about a trick play? With Herm as predictable as he is in his O, the Jets would have been left standing with their mouths wide open with a fake punt.
Personally, I’m really rooting for Matt Stafford. I know there are so many reasons to not draft a QB in the first round, but we’ve tried and tried at the free agent route with not much success. Personally, I’d rather take that shot and fail than wait til the 3rd, 4th, or 5th round and settle for mediocre, game management, “whatever you do, just don’t screw up and throw an INT” QB. Thats what Harm would love more than anything, but makes me vomit to think about.
Thanks Jeff. When Barry Switzer is the dunce that goes for it in that situation, I rest my case.
We play to win the game! 1 game. 1-15. New coach, GM,QB coach,QB ect…
jb,
As much as I detest Harm’s offensive, defensive, and all around football philosiphy (Run, run, run, punt, repeat and hope your defense can keep it close), what he’s doing really did need to happen. He probably wasn’t the right guy to do it for us, but what HAS to happen it to get Carl out of the GM position at the very least. And NOT let him pick his own loser succussor. We might as well pick a new team if he’s allowed to hand pick the next in line.
I still think we did the right thing in punting on 4th and 1. The problem is that we didn’t pass the ball on an obvious passing down…. especially when we couldn’t run all day even when we only had 4 guys rushing against us. If Jamaal Charles was in, I wouldn’t have complained. He’s the type of back that could break one. Kolby Smith is not. He’s the type of back that can run into stuff.
Amen to the new coaching staff though.
Curl has that cadaver-like snarl on his face during the game, like he has no earthly idea of what just happened, let alone what he should be doing. Gunther doesn’t fit Harm’s philosiphy, and Chan might be worse than even Paul “Can’t” Hackett!! All hand picked by Harm himself.
Do the Chiefs need to accept the reality that most of today’s good college quarterbacks prefer to run the spread or some variation of the spread? This may be reality, whether Herm and the traditionalists like it or not.
we need to win games. However we do it is not important.
Bob On the chiefs page your blog questioned the 2nd guessers . With all the reason not to (except) I feel & a lot of other fans feel that if you are competing for the championship you play one way when you are going no where 1&6 you play another way. The out come was set when you play not to lose instead of playing to win . Prevent defence not taking risk is all most always rewarded with losing. Just like in life those that take chances in business is almost always rewarded more than those that don’t.Middle of the road usually gets you only to the middle not to the finish line. What is another loss in a losing season did it change the outcome of the game or the season NO.
PS Bob if the NY Jets had used Herms & your thoughts they would have run the ball eat up the clock & kick a field goal to tie the game . They didn’t they took a chance & the outcome ? They won the difference between wining & losing taking a chance in life & on the field.
True Red & Gold says…..
And to answer what is bothering you. Was Herm’s last offensive series the wrong call? Of course it was IT DIDN’T WORK!
Nothing ever hardly works when Herm is involved 90% of what Herm does is wrong he is the cancer on this team and as long as he is coach the best we will be is a sub-par team.
jt -
If the Jets had used Herm’s thinking Favre wouldn’t have thrown the pick that put the Chiefs ahead.
That said, I still disagree with Bob. Good article, though.
What I was trying to say is What Do Losing Teams Have To Lose in trying for a win. None & just maybe you make it. If you don’t has it change your season NO. That That is what drives me crazy year after year losing teams play like they have something to lose if the try to go for a win. They don’t Nothing Nothing is going to change their season. Losing teams shouldn’t be aloud to punt if they are over the 50yrd line is there a difference between a 1point loss than by 20 ? they’re record at the in of the season only has there win loss record. Well maybe that is why Iam not a NFL coach …
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I look at the Chargers change at defensive coord. and wondering when are we going to make a change. To be fair Gunther didn’t have the personel to be competitive under the Vermeil regime. But I look at our defensive line and its made up of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks and they aren’t producing. We have two preety good outside linebackers and the secondary is the only spot where it looks pretty good. Most of the guys on defense are 2nd and 3rd yr players why aren’t they getting better. Why aren’t we using Derrick Johnson in every game the same way we used him against Denver.
I look at our offense and in one yr I already see signs of life after Gailey took over behind Solari. And he’s doing it with a third string quarterback.
Now to give credit the defense is creating turnovers, but they’re not physical upfront and is having some of the worse tackling i’ve ever seen which was a problem we experienced during the Vermeil era. The only common denominator is we have the same Defensive coord. If this defensive doesn’t start to play alot better this season we might need to follow the same path the Chargers did and get a knew guy in here to run this defense.
I didn’t agree with Bob’s article at all, although it was interesting. He put the blame on the defense and special teams which is definitely true, BUT by the last possession, we KNEW both of those areas were playing terrible. If they evaluated ALL of what they knew, running 3 straight plays and hoping the special teams and defense would hold was the least reasonable choice. As far as second guessing…that really only is valid if the coaches are breaking from what has been proven to work. If they had had success running during the game and fans were upset that they didn’t start winging it, then I’m with you Bob. It was just the opposite. Fans were upset that they DIDN’T stick with the only thing that had worked. They had nothing they could point to that said it was the right decision.
Anyway, glad to see Herm’s comments that the new wrinkles in the offense would no longer be a surprise and they would have to make adjustments for TB. Very true. Monte Kiffin is always aggressive and will have something for them. Thigpen will need some help from coaches and teammates.
Yeah i kind of agree B in SC. but at somepoint the o-line has to suck it up and hit somebody in the mouth for 3 yards. And its a team game the special teams has to do their part and make a freaking tackle. You can always blame the coach for a lost every lost should did this or should have did that. At the end of the day players are getting play millions of dollars to do their job and they just have to get it done. Plain and simple.
You couldn’t tell Coughlin not to throw the ball because Eli had been so inaccurate all season and in the past. But just because they had 3 good running backs they needed to just run run run. At some point Eli had to step up and make some big throws which he did and they won a Super Bowl.
My thing is this its 3yards I had no problem with the play call its not like the Jets put 8 people in the box. The line has to show some heart and start punching people in the mouth to get that.
“You have to keep them honest,”Âť Edwards said. “I don’t think you can live in (the spread). It’s like anything else: When people get a bead on what you’re doing, the first thing they do is attack you.”Âť
Hopefully Herm realizes this is true not only of the spread, but of running LJ/Kolby right up Adrian Jones butt 9 first downs out of 10. Funny how the spread worked once and he’s already skeptical of it but the running on first down has not worked well all season and that’s what he wants to get back to. I know you’ve got to run well in order to win, but this guy is so stubborn. He is convinced his way is the only way.
I hope they continue to be agressive with the spread this week. Let’s give it the same chance we gave the ineffective ground game this season.
Would of- should have & could have , Lets put it on party boy , cant stay home and out of trouble — gets Paid for doing nothing . Herm cant bring it up to realitly that this is NOT a busniess that goes on all year and your —- do it man , is not present when you need him ! theres another business that does not fire you ,when you dont show when needed,————— sorry, Im blank , cant remember . Need help on this one ? Guess I Ive had to much to drink . Where were we? someone ,,,— forgot whos on first.
“…at somepoint the o-line has to suck it up and hit somebody in the mouth for 3 yards.” Agreed! But, this line can not do it yet(I wonder why Herm doesn’t try the left side behind his 1st rnd pick more). Besides, there wasn’t 8 guys in the box on that 3rd and one, there was 9. The first look was spread out, but they shifted in. With 9 guys standing on the other side of the line between the tackles knowing that Herm Edwards is going to run it there, is it fair to expect any 5 offensive linemen in the league to get 3 yards? ANY FIVE FROM ANY TEAM! 5 men can’t block 9. Remember the game in Arizona with Bono playing for Marty? KC needed 1 yard for a 1st down on the KC 29…Bono, Mr. Eight Flat Forty, ran a naked bootleg after a run fake for 71 yards and a score(the longest run by a KC QB I think). He even slowed down to slide at the first down marker but the extra tackle that ran a pattern, the only pattern, into the flat waved him on. It was comical. The point is, if the defense is 100% positive of what play is about to be run, 99.9999999% of the time they win. Very few offenses are so dominating they can give away every advantage and still come out on top. DOES HERM EDWARDS REALLY HAVE THE NERVE TO SAY “You have to keep them honest” WHEN TALKING ABOUT THE SPREAD OFFENSE. The spread (which I don’t care for either) is the only thing all year long that Herm has done to keep any defense honest. What’s the definition of stupidity, trying the same thing over and over expecting different results? That’s KC’s head coach to a “T”. How many QBs have gotten hurt playing for Herm in KC and NY? Is that “just bad luck”? I don’t think so. It’s his inability to keep any defense honest with his totally predictable style of play calling that makes his QBs sitting ducks. Thigpen will be lucky to survive the TB game. Sorry to all for the length of the post, but I’m tired of people defending a head coach whose only apparent ability is picking CBs(the one positive thing I can say about him).
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