Friday Morning Cup O’Chiefs

Go Chiefs!

Jason Peters against any of our Dlineman is going to be a huge mismatch.

Jason Peters—WEW !! . This is a life or death game from a team with high hopes .

Chiefs | Johnson may be moved to middle
Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:35 -0800

Adam Teicher, of The Kansas City Star, reports the Kansas City Chiefs may move LB Derrick Johnson to middle linebacker in the hopes of getting more from him and more production from that position.

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Now I remember suggesting this earlier in the season and was told that Gun said in training camp that DJ cant play MLB. So either gun is grasping for straws, or I was right.

To me this article is more reason we shouldn’t draft a quarterback next year. Maybe bring in a guy like Losman as a backup or hang on to Gray , but not draft a quarterback. Right now we have a guy outperforming guys that were taking ahead of him. Our problem has not been at the quarterback position the last 4 games. It has been at right tackle and guard (lack of running game in goal line situation), defensive end (lack of sacks this year league low), and middle linebacker (inability to stuff the run one of the worse run defenses last 5 to 7 years). These are issues needing to be addressed in the offseason and 2009 draft.

We better not move DJ to the middle. That would be a complete waste of his abilities. Why would we use him to fill gaps in the run game when he’s pretty good at coverage and has blazing speed. He should blitz and go into coverage, but he shouldn’t fill the run gaps in the middle! He’s already been hurt several times, so I don’t want to see him absorbing Marshawn Lynch’s hit. That little bugger is a beast!

I just found this video after I called Lynch a beast….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWKEJqkKLcs

DJ is an OUTSIDE LB, this would be a move (dumb) that would be outta pure desperation, w/little or no chance of success long term.

Moving DJ to the mike backer would be desperate and ill advised. Not to say that DJ couldn’t be a good mike backer. But that is not what this team needs right now (for DJ to move to the middle). This can be easily seen by answering one question. Since DJ has been out, what has been worse their ability to stop the run or their ability to put pressure on the QB?

Excellent point tr&g.

Move Johnson to the middle…an EXCELLENT MOVE!

Ed,

1. chiefs should draft the BPA when they pick, whomever that should be.

2. If the chiefs stick with the spread offense, I would like to see them pickup Alex Smith (former #1 overall) who will likely be cut from the 49ers. Smith would thrive in this offense.

3A. DJ essentially played a Mike roll at Texas and was at his best when he freelanced.

B. He is one of the biggest and heaviest LB on the chiefs roster…which is good for the middle.

C. MLB in a cover 2 needs to be able to cover the deep hole created in the middle of the field, and DJ is great in coverage. With Dorsey and tank in front of him, he shouldnt have blockers on him.

D. It provides ‘veteran’ leadership in the middle

E. Chiefs are happy with Boiman on the outside, who has good size and has showed great tackling ability. Donnie will be back, but doesnt have the health or the size to play MLB in a 4-3. Thomas is undersized, and is better suited for an OLB role…just like Demario Williams who likely will be cut after the season since he cant crack the depleted lineup. Basically the chiefs are trying to start their best linebackers, and right now I expect a starting lineup of Boiman (sOLB), DJ, and edwards (wOLB).

F. Eventually Pollard might be moved to linebacker if Morgan could ever get healthy and displace him.

here is what some other fans have said about the potential move:
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Putting him does several things that can help him excel and benefit our defense:

1) It shortens the field for him. He will be able to make plays quicker in the middle and to either side of the field quicker.

2) It allows him to do what he does best – attack the ball carrier and line of scrimage. Imo playing Johnson in coverage out in the flats is a waste of his talent. Putting at MLB will enable him to attack the LOS more AND enable him to drop back and use his wing span and athletic ability to cover the middle of the field on passing downs which has been a huge weakness for us.

3) Will force him into more of a vocal leadeship role as the MLB is usually the one calling out signals to the lineman and other LBs as well as making sure they are lined up right before the snap.

He has the instincts to play the position which is the biggest factor at whether or not he’ll succeed. He has the athletism and size. It remains to be seen if he has the discipline and physicality to play MLB. MLBs have to be the most disciplined LB on the field. Often he’ll have to sacrifice making the play to take out a blocker. May be hard for him to do.

The fact of the matter is as a MLB he would be able to run the field and make plays, not to mention the MLB see’s ALOT of action in the cover 2 pass defense.. DJ is our best player, might as well see what he can do at a VERY critical position on this team.. OLB’s are a dime a dozen in the draft, great MLB’s are very hard to come by.. Never hurts to see what you have in house!

Amazing that an but 8-10 TD pass to INT ratio (BUFF’s Edwards) trumps an 10-5 ratio same (KCs Thigpen) in overall passing rating.

Further evidence the NFL’s passer rating system is ‘whack’ as in out of (that it does not factor in W’s & L’s is arguably apropos, but that said likewise rewards 8-10 o’er 10-5 is odd.) Stat superiority in the most important aspect-points- coming in second in the final anlysis.

Len Dawson was once the NFL’s top rated passer of all time, then slipped to second, and eventually on down the line. Yet, I have seen no one/no QB since who was a better all around QB- ‘overhype’ the modern QBs be damned.

The rules changes geared toward offense/WRs etc. that began after Lenny retired have made much of the ’stats’ non sequitur. I’ll still take Lenny The Cool, Bart Starr and Johnny Unitas & several other yesteryear QBs over any post 1975 guys.

Much the same as some extoll a Bonds in baseball as being the ‘better’ hr hitter than Ruth, when the fact is ‘more’ does not equate to better in and of itself – perhaps only in this way can say a Thigpen/Edwards be placed on different levels, the difference being that arbitrary measure (NFL passer rating) is not as crisp & concise as mano y mano measure ‘weighted’ with common sense.

As such the roll call the all time passers today as listed by the NFL is a population of frauds. Other sports have no ’system’ per se but they too rest on the weak crutch of ‘more’ is better..it is not necessarily, sans equitable measure.

Opportunity to opportunity, a Babe Ruth dominates a Barry Bonds almost across the board on an equal playing field nee tit for tat/when both had a similar number of opportunities. When each had a similar # of at bats, Bonds had hit only 619 hrs to Ruth’s 714- it took Bonds an EXTRA 837 at bats BEYOND what Ruth had for the Steroid King to even but TIE Ruth at 714.

Thats why when the cry of Bonds is the best ever or Dan Marino is or Emmitt Smith is because they have ‘more’ than the next guy it’s too simplistic a purview. By such a tack, a Don Sutton who had more MLB opportunities (years), more wins, more strikeouts, more shutouts, ‘more more more’ than a Sandy Koufax, must be the better.

Ridiculous, for with ‘more’ opportunities- any – augmented as they be by the modern $ driven games/rules, such players SHOULD have ‘more’ by way of stat. Doesn’t make them better, just forunate.

Bonds merely continued farther past the finish line in a race that Ruth won years before. No different than the obsolete NFL passer ratings, in its own lack.

findthedr you didn’t answer my earlier question.

I don’t disagree about DJ’s ability to play in the middle. I just question the timing. Earlier in the season you hated it that the coaches were experimenting with players positions.

The Chiefs need a win and I am not sure now is the time to change DJ’s position as it seems to take a few weeks (sometimes longer) to adjust to a new position. So would switching him help get a win this week against the Bills? Or are you saying that DJ is such an exceptional athlete that he will automatically feel comfortable in the middle?

I agree findthedr. we need to do something different in that department. I don’t think we have been maximizing Johnson potential since his arrival in KC. And to add to that we’re facing a preety good running back Lynch and the other kid they got thats preety explosive. So it maybe time to see how he does at that position it may save us the trouble of getting a middle linebacker in the draft and focus more on the offensive and defensive line.

TRG, dont know which player changes you are referring to that I ‘hated.’

If you are speaking of Hali, we knew since training camp that he wasnt cutting mustard at RDE, but the chiefs had to try. At least they didnt keep him there for the entire season.

As for DJ, he has the phyisical and mental skills to be able to play any of the linebacker positions. Everyone wants a MLB to be the leader of the D, and might as well see if he can. Physically, he fits the brian Urlacher mold of MLB that is required for a great cover 2 MLB.

According to Bob, DJ wont be playing MLB against the bills. Due to injuries Boiman will be in the middle, while DJ and demario will be on the outside (since Edwards is always hurt).

findthedr,
Why are you searching so hard to find a replacement for Thigpen?

What, exactly, would you hope he would do? Throw 8 TDs to 1 INT, have about 7 yds/att, and close to a 60% completion rate?

Well, that’s what Thigpen is already doing since the light went on for him. So why take the chance?

If you don’t intend Alex Smith to start, why bother wasting time/energy thinking about who our 2nd string QB will be?

Well we do need a quality backup. I don’t know who but hey we could use one. This is the NFL and anything can happen look at Brodie and Damon this year. The Patriots with Brady. And I don’t want another losing season because God forbid Tyler gets hurt next year. So investing in a quality backup quarterback is a good thing. But I agree Tyler needs to be the starter if he’s playing like this with only 6 games of experience imagine how good he can be with all of training camp and a whole season. And some better players on the offensive line and an improved defense.

He does need to remain the starter. The offense hasn’t had this much life since Vermeil and Al Saunders was here.

Sure, we need a backup QB. Even if you completely write off Brodie Croyle (which seems a little extreme), then *IF* Quinn Gray or Ingle Martin or some 6th-round draft choice can’t do it, maybe we can see if there’s someone available in the FA market. But I don’t see why we need to start targeting anyone at this point.

findthedr isn’t the only one doing it, and I’m slightly puzzled. Bringing in someone like Smith would just cause trouble, because:
1) Smith would most likely demand a larger contract than a waiver-wire pickup of a 7th round pick
2) Smith would not want to come to KC unless given a chance to start
3) It would just give people something else to complain about by inspiring unrealistic expectations of …”if a 7th round pick could do this well, than a former 1st round pick should do even better!” and would result in complaints like, “Herm’s an idiot for not giving Smith a chance” the very first time Thigpen has a 2-INT game.

Nathan,
I never said I was trying to find a replacement to Thigpen.

Bringing in Alex Smith would just be competition. He would anyway require time to settle into the offense and get his head straight after leaving the 9ers.

All I am saying is that I would be comfortable taking Thigpen, Croyle, Quinn, Martin, and Smith to camp and allowing them to compete for 3 spots.

Under this scenario drafting another QB isnt immediately neccessary. That being said, if a tremendous talent is available when the chiefs pick (whichever round) than the chiefs shouldnt pass on him. YOu can never have too many good qbs (specially with a Herm edwards offense and a Herm edwards offensive line).

Rin Rin Rin, Tin Tin Tin, Rin Tin Rin Rin Rin Tin Tin…Tin Tin Tin, Rin Rin Rin, Rin Rin Rin Tin Rin Rin Tin!

findthedr,
Sure, and the Dolphins should have brought in a FA to compete with Dan Marino every year.
And they should have traded up to pick up every can’t-miss QB in the draft, too.

Maybe that way they would have won a Super Bowl sometime in the last 3 decades.

And we need to start bringing in competition for Flowers and Carr, too. You don’t pass up top CBs. And competition never hurts.

Let’s just ignore the right side of the O-line, forget about finding starters or depth for the LB corps, don’t worry about trying to improve our pash rush: the only thing that is going to help this team is to improve our QB position by rewarding Tyler Thigpen’s excellent recent starts by refusing to let him ever win the starting job outright.

Honestly: name a QB other than Manning or Brady who you would expect better than the last 4 games from, please. Just one. Because I can show that any QB you care to name has at least 1 bad game out of every 4 starts.
Name another QB that has shown this much upside in just 5 starts and in just his 2nd year after coming out of a small college, please.
Every QB with success this quick played at a big-time football factory. Even Steve McNair needed more time to adjust to the NFL than Thigpen.

At some point, the team should prioritize, and QB is so far off the charts of what this team needs to be successful, I don’t know why anyone would want to mess with that by threatening Thigpen’s starting position with a former first round pick that has 3x the experience.

Sure, what we say makes zero difference anyway. But I really cannot wrap my head around that sort of thinking. It makes no football sense, and makes no sense in any sort of leadership context.

Let me put it this way:
No one on the team is playing better than Tyler Thigpen right now. Not TonyG, not D.Bowe, not Colquitt or Flowers or LJ. No one.

Our scoring output has expanded because of the skills of Tyler Thigpen.

So to have people talk about bringing in other people to threaten our best player’s starting position just stuns me. I’m not trying to put anyone down, I am just trying to figure out what possible reason for that.

Would you fire Bellichick right after his first Super Bowl win just for the sake of giving the team a challenge? Would bench Peyton Manning because Sorgi might be better?

No. The one thing you don’t do is mess with the best part of your team in any way.

I’m inclined to think a quality back up will come from Croyle, Gray or Martin. In fact, Croyle may have ended up having a very good year this year if the Chiefs had been running the current offense from the beginning of the year.

Still, if one is available in free agency or in the draft (after frist round, my choice) then take him.

I agree nathen, we have more serious needs (C, DE,RT if not Niswanger,possibly another G, LB’s x2, and RB) Gray Croyle and Martin will provide all the competition required at QB.

As a far-away (Europe) Bears fan, I am always looking for new sites with Chicago information.