:eyes: :bug: :flush: :\ :’ :. :` :~ :] :} :* :-* :- :_ :+ :O :C :Q

:cryl: :spin: :puke: [:]

:ta:

a poster on another site said that he broke down how pathetic our D-line is. Basically pointed out that they are all lacking a second move. Pointed it out as a sign that the defensive coaches really don’t know what they are doing at all in developing D-linemen, which helps explain why we burn through so many 1st round picks.

Explains why Dorsey is taking on blockers when he should be playing 3 technique.

Talk is cheap, action is better. I love the chiefs, and hate anything that makes it worse. Right now, Herm is making it worse.

A lot of good posts as well, even if some got off the focus of the article.

The play of many of our newest guys is encouraging for the future.

The coaching staff will continue to tweak, that is what good coaches do!

You guys will have to excuse findthedr. You can not question his knowledge or his willingness to invest many hours digging up stats, posts, and articles. The only question is: Is that fire fueled by his passion for the Chiefs or his HATRED FOR THE COACH!

“BRIAN DE LA PUENTE at C and Rudy Niswanger at RG makes perfect sense…next year. Remember when Free Agency opened and Squerm whined about Tampa tampering with C Jeff Faine? I think the plan then was for Faine at C and Rudy at RG. Getting shut out of FA and losing Wigmann forced Squerm’s hand at C and RG.”

you, Justinfoote, and others are more than welcome to question my knowledge, but I think it is a little disingenuine to use obvious typos to dismiss my point and question my chiefs knowledge (which should be clearly evident from all my posts and the links that i provide).

So far some here think I use aliases because once i put ‘findthed’ instead of ‘findthedr’…others queston my knowledge based on typos….only thing left is the spelling police. lol.

you are completely wrong on Niswanger. He played Guard a little last year due to injuries and incompetence. Casey (although struggling) was still holding down the fort at Center.

From the moment he was a chief, Niswanger was groomed to be the replacement at center.

Here are the links to the chiefs 2006 and 2007 wiki pages which list him as a center on the final roster. If someone has access to previous years depth charts, it will also show him as the backup at center.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season#Roster

So when Niswanger was only playing guard last year, they were grooming him for center?

Niswanger at center only came up pre-draft, b/c noone knew who was going to play where, we didn’t have any players to play anything from center all the way over to the right tackle. Herm had to come with an answer after letting Wiegmann walk.

Also, Nate Harris’s stats looked nothing like that last year. Napoleon Harris’s did. You have me questioning your Chiefs knowledge.

Attributing my Dorsey opinion to “most scouts” was overstatement on my part, but I did see several scouting reports at the time caution against comparing him to Sapp.

On the other hand, guys like Mike Mayock were talking like he was Moses.

Here is what an article said:
The conclusion: Pray like hell that your team drafts Glenn Dorsey, the LSU defensive tackle who won the Bronko Nagurski (defensive player), Outland Trophy (interior lineman) and Rotary Lombardi Award (lineman or linebacker) this year. As the chart below shows, award-winners on the defensive side of the ball do better in the pros than any other honorees, and linemen who win college hardware may be the safest bet of all.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=3177659

Based on those stats, history shows that Dorsey will likely be a pro bowler one day.

I expect Dorsey to continue to get better, but ‘hit a wall’ around the 10th week. That goes for most of the rookies.

All I’m saying is that, considering the pitfalls of judging NFL talent, I’ll be content if he’s Dan Saleaumua for the next 10 years and not Warren Sapp. Yes, in most people’s opinion a #5 is too high a price to pay for that kind of player, but every year players are drafted in the first round who don’t even become consistent starters.

Here’s what the link you posted says about Dorsey:

“Compares To: WARREN SAPP-Oakland…While both have made a nice living off their explosive initial step, Dorsey does not have the same game-changing ability Sapp displayed during the prime of his career. Let’s face it, Dorsey is a good sanitation man (takes out the trash by handling multiple blockers, thus freeing a teammate up to make the play), but if statistics tell the true story, he had just 13 sacks, 27 stops for losses and seven quarterback pressures in 51 collegiate games. While we will follow the party line that he could develop into another Sapp, he also could be a clone of a former LSU Tiger, Anthony McFarland.”

That sounds more like my description than yours.

There has been some good, and in the future I think will be great draft picks, But to stand your ground on one or two guys when the whole world can see that they are not going to work out is not only unfair to the team but to the fans.

And yes I know no ownership cares about the fans so that is not unique to the Chiefs.

ILChiefsFan says:
[quote]Dorsey’s quick, but I don’t think he was perceived by most scouts as that kind of gap-penetrating DT. That’s certainly not how he played in college.

Most draft experts seemed to think that, despite his relatively small size, he would continue to be a lane-clogger, a guy who would draw the double-team, and a guy who could pursue from the back side of a play. If he can do that successfully I’ll be satisfied even he doesn’t become Warren Sapp.[/quote]

Dorsey was percieved as a once in a decade penetrating Dlineman.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/glenn-dorsey?id=218#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis

Lane clogging tackles are found in the 2nd day of the draft. A #5 overall DT should be a pass rushing force.

Justin Foote says:
[quote]“For someone that likes to quote stats all of the time, you really need to study the roster a little more. First of all, the starting middle linebacker last year was Napoleon Harris, not Nate Harris. And, the guy that replaced him is Pat Thomas, not Pat Harris. The Chiefs have realized that Napo isn’t adapting to the system and they can’t cut him due to his inflated contract.”[/quote]

thanks for catching my mistake, born out of fast typing without proof reading. Obviously you understood what I meant, and I think most others posting here did too.

Nap isnt adapting to our system?! What system?! We are getting run over!! The chiefs have $31 million in cap room..they can afford to cut him.

Dude is not hurt. He participated in practice last week.

TimInKC:
1. IMO, the most amazing thing about the Nap harris situation is the fact that the media isnt asking any questions, or reporting anything about the situation to clear up what is going on.
2. I too have high hopes for this draft class, but I think that the chiefs are not using all of them optimally.
3. I do want to run the coaching staff out of town, not because of a 1-4 season, but because of a lack of leadership and showing complete incompetence since being here.
4. Clark Hunt is a buisness man. The only thing which will force him to make changes is if it affects the bottom line. If fans stop buying tickers, if blackouts occur, and future tax proposals are rejected, he will listen.
5. I too want to see Brodie play, and hopefully win a game.

completely possible. That shouldnt excuse the BS though. The chiefs moved their best DT and perfect 3 technique guy in Boone to LDE which was a disaster. They handed Dorsey the starting job and he hasnt lived up to the 3technique position. I fully expect him to make a turnaround in his 2nd year similar to what Tank did this year, but that doesnt excuse moving Boone.

I dont want to here “spin” I can go on and on how Herm contradicts himself even within the same press confrence (heck, even within th 10/8 press conference). It seems that those in charge at 1 Arrowhead drive are convinced fans are stupid and will believe anything they say. That is far from the truth.

October 9, 2008 – Tim says:
[quote]“Sounds like Gunther is losing it a little. He’s marginalizing a superior athlete in favor of freeing up lesser ones. The results of REAL GAMES obviously screams for scheme adjustements.”[/quote]

completely, but Herm has stated that there wont be any changes made. At this point what I would do is move Hali back to LDE and have him be a situational pass rusher (at least till he is healthy) and leave Turk for run defense. Hali is horrible at rush defense unless he is tackling from the backside. I would move Boone (the 1 guy on our line with a sack) back to technique to rotate with Dorsey. TJ Jackson becomes the starting RDE on run downs till Brian Johnston the pass rush specialist (at least until he shows he can become an everydown lineman).

Why move TJ Jackson to RDE? If nothing else he can stop the run, he aldready has experience on the right side (footwork/hand technique), and it is easier making a young guy learn new tricks than an old guy. It cant be any worse than it is right now, and it doesnt hurt to at least try.

Vincent says:
[quote]“Thanks for the breakdown. I’m curious to know how you view the rookies as opposed to Herm. I have thought that the second half of the season is when the 3-4 round boys should come through. Jamal, Dujon, Brad and William should be showing up on the stat sheet. If this is to be a great draft the 3-4th rounds must prove worthwilde.”[/quote]

I pretty much agree with the rest of the assesment. The cbs look good, specially since we have no pass rush. For whatever crazy reason, Herm’s buddy John McGraw is stealing playing time from Dujuan Morgan. The offensive players arent getting a chance because the offensive line is a disaster. Kevin robbinson is another bobby sippio and will/should be cut. He should have never been drafted in the 1st place. The chiefs are in a vicious cycle: They dont have a #2 WR, and they cant protect the QB. The chiefs should have been using the 2TE set as their base package. It is heavy for the run, and affords big targets in the pass game. Although we saw alot of it in preseason and training camp, they abandoned it during the season. Cottam is 6’7” and has 4.6 speed. The chiefs are stupid by not using him. Finally, the chiefs think Barry Richardson is not ready for the RT job since McIntosh is doing splendidly (roll eyes). He should be starting at RG if nothing else. Yes he is tall, but he has long arms and is a mauler in the run game.

Hard to get a guy on the field when he’s in the training room and not on the practice field.

—Tim

You are truly a voice of reason, no sarcasm intended.

In regards to Napoleon Harris: I have wondered the same thing, in light of seeing Pat Thomas struggle at times so far this season. However, I guess I’m just dumb or naive, because I’m going to defer to the judgement of professional football people who have been involved in the sport for nearly their entire adult lives to make the decision on whether Harris should be on the field or not. Apparently Harris is either too hurt to provide any help, or he just doesn’t fit with what the Chiefs are doing, either on the field, or in terms of his attitude.

Regarding the Draft Class: I think the draft class still looks promising thus far, despite the downpour of negativity following the poor start of the season. Perhaps I’m just a blind, stupidly positive person, but I’m not ready to fire every employee and trade every player following a 1-4 start to a season in which nearly everyone was expecting the team to struggle.

Check back with me later in the season, and I may very well have a different take on the situation. The direction of this team (and therefore, the fate of it’s coaches and front office people) will be best decided by the second half of this season.

Regarding Clark Hunt: For anyone who insists on complaining about Clark Hunt’s ownership of the Chiefs, I would consider that about as worthwhile as complaining about water being wet. You don’t like Clark Hunt, or the way he is operating as owner of the team? Sorry, but you’ll probably just have to get used to it. He’s not going to sell the team. It belongs to him, and he can run it as he sees fit. If it bothers you that much, my best suggestion would be to become a fan of a different team. I’m sure you will be able to pick out plenty of things to complain about with your new favorite team, so you should feel right at home.

Brodie Croyle is back next week, and even though most of you hate him and are ready to run him out of town, I’m excited to have him back, because I want to see him play.

—Tim

I’d still agree with findthedr that it wouldn’t hurt to give Harris a some PT in light of our overall poor LB play.

findthedr said: “Finally, Mr. Bob Gretz, what in the world is going on with Nate Harris?

Dont tell me he has some injury that has kept him inactive for the entire season. The guy had 116 TKl, 1.5sacks, and 1INT last year and he lost his job to Pat freaking Harris and now cant even make the gameday roster when we are extremely thin at LB and worse off this year?! That is a freaking joke! Either play the guy to help out our defense and TEAM, or cut him and move on. If nothing else, that would free up a roster spot.”

For someone that likes to quote stats all of the time, you really need to study the roster a little more. First of all, the starting middle linebacker last year was Napoleon Harris, not Nate Harris. And, the guy that replaced him is Pat Thomas, not Pat Harris. The Chiefs have realized that Napo isn’t adapting to the system and they can’t cut him due to his inflated contract.

Also, if you think Gretz has put a positive spin on “every aspect of the Chiefs as a whole”, you haven’t read much of this blog.

Most draft experts seemed to think that, despite his relatively small size, he would continue to be a lane-clogger, a guy who would draw the double-team, and a guy who could pursue from the back side of a play. If he can do that successfully I’ll be satisfied even he doesn’t become Warren Sapp.

And, as Colby says, it’s still too early to tell.

I agree that Dorsey hasn’t yet showed us that he was worthy of being the 5th pick overall, but he does get double teamed most of the time so he is contrbuting positively. DL is the toughest position outside of QB to make a big impact on as a rookie. Mario Williams rookie year wasn’t all that great either but he’s developed and is now a stud. I’m of the opinion that Dorsey will hold his own this year and be a stud next year. Herm is an idiot who contradicts himself more than a politician though, and I love that you brought up those post draft quotes he made. I think that the real culprit here is Tamba Hali. This guy benefited greatly from Jared Allen’s pass rushing for his first two seasons and now that he is playing opposite a lesser rusher in McBride, he’s producing NOTHING! Hali is a former first rounder in his third year. There’s no excuse for him getting shut down by Mario Henderson of the Raiders who made his first NFL start against us at Arrowhead. Nor is there an excuse for Hali doing nothing against Carolina’s injury riddled line. Once Hali starts providing the pressure he’s supposed to, it should open up more opportunities for Dorsey.

Also, our LBs are a disaster. Vermeil drafts servicable guys in Fujita (who we traded) and Kawika Mitchell (who signed a 1 year 1.5 mil deal with NYG) and Herm replaces them with Napolean Harris (big money) Donnie Edwards (big money) and Pat Thomas (nobody). Not to mention Carl vomitted away millions more Hunt dollars over the years on Kendrell Bell, Glenn Cadrez, and Shawn Barber. LB should be a strength on this team but our head honchos have managed to wreck it.

Remember when Muhammad was running away from our defense for a TD last Sunday? Carr was the only guy gaining ground on him, and he was gaining it pretty fast, too. Morgan was less than impressive on that play, though.

Is it possible that Dorsey hasn’t yet adjusted successfully to 3-technique and Herm is just putting a positive spin on his performance so far?

Sounds like Gunther is losing it a little. He’s marginalizing a superior athlete in favor of freeing up lesser ones. The results of REAL GAMES obviously screams for scheme adjustements.

this is why I keep saying:

Clean House!
Fire ‘em all!

Here is what Herm said after the draft:
“they would ask him to do was a little bit different in the fact that he was two-gaping a lot; he never actually got to penetrate. That’s why when you look at sacks he only had seven. But he was a two-gap kind of guy where we’re going to let him go. We’re actually going to let him play the three technique and he can just go up field and that’s what he does.”
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/04/26/qa_with_petersonedwardskuharich_on_1st_round/

So Dorsey and Tank taking on double teams are freeing up our linebackers to make plays. Only problem with that is that they are not making plays and have regressed this year under our new linebackers coach Gunther Cunningham compared to last year.

Finally, Mr. Bob Gretz, what in the world is going on with Nate Harris?

Dont tell me he has some injury that has kept him inactive for the entire season. The guy had 116 TKl, 1.5sacks, and 1INT last year and he lost his job to Pat freaking Harris and now cant even make the gameday roster when we are extremely thin at LB and worse off this year?! That is a freaking joke! Either play the guy to help out our defense and TEAM, or cut him and move on. If nothing else, that would free up a roster spot.

The chiefs afterall are 30th/31st in total and run defense so a change cant hurt, unless Herm is calling the shots.

This is the most insane statement I have read today. Dorsey was not brought in to ‘take on double teams’…that is what you get a BFF to do. He was brought in to play the 3 technique position (shoot gaps and collapse the pocket).

Since the draft, training camp, and preseason we have been told that Dorsey was asked to ‘take on double teams’ …and now he is asked to ‘rush the passer.’

Finally, it seems like all I read is that our lineman are getting double teamed. Tank seems to be getting double teamed, Dorsey is double teamed, and Hali and Turk are invisible. Well their are 5 offensive lineman going up against our 4 defensive lineman and our dline is unble to put ANY pressure.

Niswanger, on the otherhand, was the starting center for his senior season at LSU, and has played all 5 positions at one point or another during his college career. http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/rudy_niswanger/

For at least the last 2 seasons, the chiefs had been grooming Niswanger to be the starting center. At that point, they never thought his 6’5” height would be an issue, even though it has been brought up numerous times.

So either the orginization really F’d up in the evaluation of Niswanger, or they think De La puente isnt good enough to be a starting guard for them even though he was mauling Tommy Harris in the preseason while playing for the 9ers.

In the off season.. like many positions.. the line will still need attention. A guard and center somewhere over the course of the 09 draft. Like Petro says often.. keep throwing bodies at it. Build depth. The Chiefs offensive woes begin right there in the trenches and a failure to have the future in mind despite knowing Shields and Roaf were getting close.

Erik Walden defines the term “special teams demon.” Props to the scouting department on this one. When Dallas drafted him I hadn’t even heard his name before. When they cut him I wasn’t surprised and wasn’t all that excited when we picked him up. Color me wrong on that one. Walden has been the best free agent pickup of the year. Even if he doesn’t develop into a good defensive player he’s still as good as any special teamer in the league. He’s kinda like Greg Manusky was for us back in the 90s and I have no problem with that.

Mike Cox is a favorite of mine. His upside is limited but he knows this offense and it’s just nice to see us using a FB more. I’d hoped we’d bring in Tashard Choice and Cox (Georgia Tech’s starting backfield last year under Gailey) Choice went to Dallas but I think it’s safe to say we need a FB more.