Foundation Update
The Chiefs 12 draft choices from the 2008 NFL Draft are the foundation of the franchise’s rebuilding effort. Ten of those 12 are on the active roster, joined by six other rookies.
The bye week seemed a good time to sit down with Herm Edwards and talk about his football babies.
-DT GLENN DORSEY (left) – Through five games, Dorsey has been credited with 19 tackles and one forced fumble. “He’s getting better each week,” said the coach. “He’s the most unselfish defensive lineman we have. He’s doing exactly what we are asking him to do. He’s beating up the guard and he’s taking on the double-team block so he doesn’t have the stats people look at. But he’s giving the linebackers the chance to go make plays. He has to improve on his pass rush, in using his hands. That takes time, especially when you are playing against the kind of guards he’s playing against.”
-LT BRANDEN ALBERT (below) – Over three games and one half, Albert has shown the Chiefs they were correct in moving him from guard, where he played most of his college career, to tackle. The only thing that’s held him 
back are injuries, a foot in the pre-season and now a dislocated right elbow which has cost him the last game and a half. “He’s doing very well,” Edwards said. “You draft a guy, you ask him to play left tackle, he misses the whole pre-season and then he comes in the first game and he plays every snap. And, it turns out he played those snaps really well. I’m not sure people realized how unusual that was. He continued to follow that up in the games after that.” When asked if he the Chiefs can consider the left tackle spot filled for the next decade, Edwards said: “I wouldn’t know why not. With his talent and his mentality, he’s going to be there a long time.”
-CB BRANDON FLOWERS (below) – In five games, Flowers has 26 tackles and a fumble recovery. “The game is not too big for him,” said Edwards. “He has great moxie and he’s tough. He’s learning how to play nickel back (the cornerback covering the slot receiver when the Chiefs go with five defensive backs.) It will take him a year. It took Ronde 
(Barber of Tampa Bay) about a year and five games to figure it out. I see Brandon on the same road.”
-RB JAMAAL CHARLES – So far in five games, Charles has run the ball 21 times for 98 yards and caught 12 passes for 68 yards. He’s also returned three kicks for 79 yards and has three tackles in special teams coverage. That’s not nearly the production the Chiefs envisioned for the fleet back out of Texas. “We don’t have enough plays,” said Edwards. “He’s been the guy that’s probably been hurt the most by that. If we can get eight or nine plays put together, then we can start using him and getting the ball in his hands, and let him go. I think the more he gets in there, the more he touches the ball, you know he can make a big play. If we can stay on the field, I think you will see more and more big plays from him.”
-TE BRAD COTTAM – Cottam has played all five games, but has yet to turn up in the statistics with a catch on offense or a tackle on defense. “Cottam has gotten a lot better,” said Edwards. “He’s becoming the blocker we thought he was and he’s starting to understand the passing game. If he can continue to stay healthy, he’s going to develop into a pretty good tight end.” The coaches like enough of what Cottam has shown them, that in the Denver game there were five or six offensive plays where Tony Gonzalez left the field and Cottam was the only tight end in the Chiefs offensive alignment. “We’ll continue to do that,” said Edwards. “It’s a chance to give Tony a rest. We are at a point right now with Cottam that we feel comfortable with him out there.”
-S DAJUAN MORGAN – Morgan has played in all five games, but most of his action has come in the kicking game, where he has one tackle in coverage. He also has seven tackles in limited defensive time, most of that coming last Sunday against Carolina, where he saw his biggest block of playing time. “He reminds me of Bernard (Pollard) in his rookie year,” said Edwards. “He’s kind of trying to figure it all out. He’s had some boo-boos, but then all the sudden you see him come up and support the run and you go ‘Wow, look at this guy.’ He’ll be better in the second half of the season because he’s getting some playing time now. If you don’t play a lot in real games, you don’t understand the speed of the game. For those guys at safety, it’s understanding that speed and taking the right angle. He’s still learning that.”
-WR WILL FRANKLIN – He’s caught just one pass for eight yards in the three games where he has been active. Franklin does not play on the special teams, so he hasn’t been able to make a contribution there. “He’s doing OK,” said Edwards. “We are going to try and get him more involved in the offense, especially in the slot receiver role. He’s very comfortable in that role. Brodie (Croyle) trusts him and he’ll throw him the ball and I think you’ll start seeing that happen pretty quickly.”
-CB BRANDON CARR – In five games, Carr has 26 tackles, one interception and two fumble recoveries. In this past Sunday’s game against Carolina, the Chiefs defensive coaches assigned Carr to veteran WR Steve Smith and he had him 80 percent of the game in man-to-man coverage. “We wanted to put him on Smith because he’s fast and he’s big and he could run with him (Smith),” said Edwards. “For the most part, he did a pretty good job on that guy. Steve came up to me at one point in the game and said ‘Herm, I like your corners. They are good players.’ What you can never lose sight of is this: until we get back in our division, they’ve never seen these receivers before. Ever game is a new learning experience for both of these guys (Flowers and Carr.) What they are learning right now and holding their own is huge for their future.”
-WR-KR KEVIN ROBINSON – Robinson’s knee surgery back in June kept him off the practice field for the entire training camp and now the first five weeks of the season. He’s on the PUP list and he can start practicing after the sixth regular-season game. Edwards said they plan is for Robinson to begin practicing and that would give the Chiefs a three-week window to decide on whether they’ll move Robinson to the active roster, keep him on the PUP list or release him.
- OT BARRY RICHARDSON – He was active for his first NFL game on Sunday in Carolina and played on special teams. “He’s right where we thought he would be,” Edwards said. “He needs work and time.”
-DE BRIAN JOHNSTON – The seventh-round pick has been active for all five games and has two tackles. “He’s getting better. He’s getting a lot better for a guy who is as raw as raw gets,” said Edwards. “He’s played a lot of football all the sudden. He’s learning and he’s gaining confidence. He’s got to get stronger.”
-TE MICHAEL MERRITT – The leg injury he suffered at the end of his college career has kept Merritt from practicing at any point with the team. His status on the Non-Football Injury list is the same as a player on the PUP list. He can begin practicing after the sixth game and the team then has three weeks to make a decision. Edwards said he hopes they’ll have Merritt working next week.
-FB MIKE COX – The undrafted free agent has been the starting fullback, catching four passes for 10 yards, returning one kick for eight yards and contributing two tackles on special teams. “He’s doing OK,” Edwards said. “He’s getting better. He’s a good football player. He kind of grows on you.”
-CB MAURICE LEGGETT – Another undrafted free agent who made the final roster, Leggett has two tackles in the kicking game and one kickoff return for 30 yards. He’s gotten a handful of plays as the Chiefs dime cornerback. “He’s playing better on special teams,” said Edwards. “He just doesn’t have t he confidence that Flowers and Carr have right now.”
-LB WES DACUS – Since being added to the active roster before the Denver game, Dacus has contributed two tackles in the kicking game. “He’s really come in and done a good job on special teams,” Edwards said of the undrafted free agent.
-LB ERIK WALDEN – Claimed off waivers from Dallas before the first game of the season, Walden is leading the Chiefs special teams with 10 tackles. “He can run and hit,” said Edwards. “He’s done a real good job on special teams. He’s an interesting guy for us and what he might be able to do on defense as well.”
-RB DANTRELL SAVAGE – Over the first five games, Savage has returned three punts for minus-one yard, eight kickoffs for a 27.3-yard average and he’s contributed a pair o f tackles in the kicking game. His only mistake so far came in the Carolina game when he took a punt return sideways and ended up losing 10 yards. “Just a rookie mistake,” said Edwards. “He really hasn’t had too many of those. I love that kid.”
-G BRIAN DE LA PUENTE – Claimed off waivers before the opener, after he was released by San Francisco, De La Puente has been inactive for every game. “We’re probably going to move him to center,” said Edwards. “We think he might be able to play that position and play it well.”
Hummmmmmmmmm, it’s all good and makes me wonder whats up Herm’s sleave with his thoughts of moving De La Puente (G) to center? Rudy done alright there but is to tall per what some say, maybe they put Rudy in as RG ?
Any thoughts?
Bob, a very good article, this is what I, and I’m sure others, do enjoy hearing about. It’s good to hear about positive things that are going on. I for one though, am still wondering what happens if Brodie goes down again, is Martin working out and is he a possible starter, just curious, but would like to know his status, I personally feel, that the team would be playing much better if we just had a reliable QB.
Bob,
I was listening to a local sports talk show here in Wichita this morning. At the end of the show the producer said he had just got a text from a buddy of his in Pittsburg. Apparently the rumor mill there has kicked out that the Steelers have inquired about trading for LJ. I know this is out of left-field , but, just wondered if you have heard anything about this?
I am curious about Martin as well. He was a Florida QB before transfering to Furman and he also played some WR for Florida as a freshman so you know he’s athletic. I like that he can be a punter in an emergency too, although Colquitt is our MVP right now.
Erik Walden defines the term “special teams demon.” Props to the scouting department on this one. When Dallas drafted him I hadn’t even heard his name before. When they cut him I wasn’t surprised and wasn’t all that excited when we picked him up. Color me wrong on that one. Walden has been the best free agent pickup of the year. Even if he doesn’t develop into a good defensive player he’s still as good as any special teamer in the league. He’s kinda like Greg Manusky was for us back in the 90s and I have no problem with that.
Mike Cox is a favorite of mine. His upside is limited but he knows this offense and it’s just nice to see us using a FB more. I’d hoped we’d bring in Tashard Choice and Cox (Georgia Tech’s starting backfield last year under Gailey) Choice went to Dallas but I think it’s safe to say we need a FB more.
De La Puente to center. Very interesting. I think Niswanger is out of position. If De La Puente can take the center job and Rudy can slide into that RG spot that would be outstanding. Get Herb Taylor over at RT with B Richardson behind him and McIntosh behind Albert and Jones behind both guard spots and I will feel comfortable with the line for these final 11 games.
In the off season.. like many positions.. the line will still need attention. A guard and center somewhere over the course of the 09 draft. Like Petro says often.. keep throwing bodies at it. Build depth. The Chiefs offensive woes begin right there in the trenches and a failure to have the future in mind despite knowing Shields and Roaf were getting close.
Throughout his career, De La puente has never played center. He has always been a guard. http://calbears.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/delapuente_brian00.html
Niswanger, on the otherhand, was the starting center for his senior season at LSU, and has played all 5 positions at one point or another during his college career. http://www.kcchiefs.com/player/rudy_niswanger/
For at least the last 2 seasons, the chiefs had been grooming Niswanger to be the starting center. At that point, they never thought his 6′5” height would be an issue, even though it has been brought up numerous times.
So either the orginization really F’d up in the evaluation of Niswanger, or they think De La puente isnt good enough to be a starting guard for them even though he was mauling Tommy Harris in the preseason while playing for the 9ers.
“He’s the most unselfish defensive lineman we have. He’s doing exactly what we are asking him to do. He’s beating up the guard and he’s taking on the double-team block”
This is the most insane statement I have read today. Dorsey was not brought in to ‘take on double teams’…that is what you get a BFF to do. He was brought in to play the 3 technique position (shoot gaps and collapse the pocket).
Since the draft, training camp, and preseason we have been told that Dorsey was asked to ‘take on double teams’ …and now he is asked to ‘rush the passer.’
Finally, it seems like all I read is that our lineman are getting double teamed. Tank seems to be getting double teamed, Dorsey is double teamed, and Hali and Turk are invisible. Well their are 5 offensive lineman going up against our 4 defensive lineman and our dline is unble to put ANY pressure.
Nice update, Bob and thanks for it. This Walden guy is compellingly interesting as he appears to be someone that could emerge and get more PT on the LB rotation.
“But he’s giving the linebackers the chance to go make plays.”
So Dorsey and Tank taking on double teams are freeing up our linebackers to make plays. Only problem with that is that they are not making plays and have regressed this year under our new linebackers coach Gunther Cunningham compared to last year.
Finally, Mr. Bob Gretz, what in the world is going on with Nate Harris?
Dont tell me he has some injury that has kept him inactive for the entire season. The guy had 116 TKl, 1.5sacks, and 1INT last year and he lost his job to Pat freaking Harris and now cant even make the gameday roster when we are extremely thin at LB and worse off this year?! That is a freaking joke! Either play the guy to help out our defense and TEAM, or cut him and move on. If nothing else, that would free up a roster spot.
The chiefs afterall are 30th/31st in total and run defense so a change cant hurt, unless Herm is calling the shots.
A 3-technique tackle lines up between the offensive guard and tackle. A 3-technique tackle is supposed to run through his gap immediately while being alert for different schemes such as trap and sweep and things of the like. He is a B-Gap player. He also has to be able to think very quickly and react to anything as if it is instinct. His job is not to block or get tied up in a block, but rather to be athletic and get himself into the offensive backfield and disrupt their plans. Because of this a 3-technique tackle is a lighter, more athletic guy than a nose tackle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_tackle
Here is what Herm said after the draft:
“they would ask him to do was a little bit different in the fact that he was two-gaping a lot; he never actually got to penetrate. That’s why when you look at sacks he only had seven. But he was a two-gap kind of guy where we’re going to let him go. We’re actually going to let him play the three technique and he can just go up field and that’s what he does.”
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/04/26/qa_with_petersonedwardskuharich_on_1st_round/
so now instead of penetrating and busting through gaps, they have him taking on blockers…which is something they could have gotten a 7th round 350lb BFF to do.
this is why I keep saying:
Clean House!
Fire ‘em all!
I too recognize the role of Dorsey seems to have changed. Originally, all we heard about was to have him penetrate, collapse the pocket, etc. Now, we hear about gap control, etc. Glen also mentioned being “turned loose” more. This hardly sounds like it.
Sounds like Gunther is losing it a little. He’s marginalizing a superior athlete in favor of freeing up lesser ones. The results of REAL GAMES obviously screams for scheme adjustements.
findthedr -
Is it possible that Dorsey hasn’t yet adjusted successfully to 3-technique and Herm is just putting a positive spin on his performance so far?
Thanks for the breakdown. I’m curious to know how you view the rookies as opposed to Herm. I have thought that the second half of the season is when the 3-4 round boys should come through. Jamal, Dujon, Brad and William should be showing up on the stat sheet. If this is to be a great draft the 3-4th rounds must prove worthwilde.
So far Brandon Carr has looked like a dead steal as a 5th-rounder. He’s covered some pretty tough receivers pretty well for a rookie. His tackling so far has been impressive, too.
Remember when Muhammad was running away from our defense for a TD last Sunday? Carr was the only guy gaining ground on him, and he was gaining it pretty fast, too. Morgan was less than impressive on that play, though.
Findthedr
I agree that Dorsey hasn’t yet showed us that he was worthy of being the 5th pick overall, but he does get double teamed most of the time so he is contrbuting positively. DL is the toughest position outside of QB to make a big impact on as a rookie. Mario Williams rookie year wasn’t all that great either but he’s developed and is now a stud. I’m of the opinion that Dorsey will hold his own this year and be a stud next year. Herm is an idiot who contradicts himself more than a politician though, and I love that you brought up those post draft quotes he made. I think that the real culprit here is Tamba Hali. This guy benefited greatly from Jared Allen’s pass rushing for his first two seasons and now that he is playing opposite a lesser rusher in McBride, he’s producing NOTHING! Hali is a former first rounder in his third year. There’s no excuse for him getting shut down by Mario Henderson of the Raiders who made his first NFL start against us at Arrowhead. Nor is there an excuse for Hali doing nothing against Carolina’s injury riddled line. Once Hali starts providing the pressure he’s supposed to, it should open up more opportunities for Dorsey.
Also, our LBs are a disaster. Vermeil drafts servicable guys in Fujita (who we traded) and Kawika Mitchell (who signed a 1 year 1.5 mil deal with NYG) and Herm replaces them with Napolean Harris (big money) Donnie Edwards (big money) and Pat Thomas (nobody). Not to mention Carl vomitted away millions more Hunt dollars over the years on Kendrell Bell, Glenn Cadrez, and Shawn Barber. LB should be a strength on this team but our head honchos have managed to wreck it.
Dorsey’s quick, but I don’t think he was perceived by most scouts as that kind of gap-penetrating DT. That’s certainly not how he played in college.
Most draft experts seemed to think that, despite his relatively small size, he would continue to be a lane-clogger, a guy who would draw the double-team, and a guy who could pursue from the back side of a play. If he can do that successfully I’ll be satisfied even he doesn’t become Warren Sapp.
And, as Colby says, it’s still too early to tell.
As for Hali - as much as I like him he seems like the odd man out on the current D-line. People talk about moving him back to left DE, but I’m not sure I’d replace Turk with him at this point.
Just like most local media with the exception of my man Jason Whitlock, Gretz, just like Herm and the entire Chiefs organization will put a positive “I have seen some things that make me think he will be a good football player”, spin on every facet of the Chiefs as a whole. As a lifelong fan and local Kansas Citian, I have seen and heard enough “Spin” from the organization from the bottom up!! Oh wait, not quite the top, Mr Clark Hunt seems to be very hands off as he sits in a dark room in Texas counting his revenue shares on $4 hot dogs and $7 dollar beers compounded by $22 parking passes. Where is our real leader? The owner Clark Hunt has been too passive for my taste and until he gives his “State of the Chiefs” Address, I am not sold on the Chiefs prosperity as a successful/winning franchise in the short or long term future!! Come out and Play Claerk……we’reanxiously awaiting your thoughts……if you even have any.
Sorry, SFC B, but if you mean that Gretz won’t pull stuff out of his a** like your man Jason Whitlock, well, I guess everyone has his failings.
Also, if you think Gretz has put a positive spin on “every aspect of the Chiefs as a whole”, you haven’t read much of this blog.
I think findthedr is finally losing it.
findthedr said: “Finally, Mr. Bob Gretz, what in the world is going on with Nate Harris?
Dont tell me he has some injury that has kept him inactive for the entire season. The guy had 116 TKl, 1.5sacks, and 1INT last year and he lost his job to Pat freaking Harris and now cant even make the gameday roster when we are extremely thin at LB and worse off this year?! That is a freaking joke! Either play the guy to help out our defense and TEAM, or cut him and move on. If nothing else, that would free up a roster spot.”
For someone that likes to quote stats all of the time, you really need to study the roster a little more. First of all, the starting middle linebacker last year was Napoleon Harris, not Nate Harris. And, the guy that replaced him is Pat Thomas, not Pat Harris. The Chiefs have realized that Napo isn’t adapting to the system and they can’t cut him due to his inflated contract.
Justin,
I’d still agree with findthedr that it wouldn’t hurt to give Harris a some PT in light of our overall poor LB play.
I cant believe they used a 1st on Hali and a 2nd on Turk when they are the same kind of player.. Neither one of them is a rushing left end. I’m not to sure either one of them will ever be anything more than average.. Good Drafting most everywhere else but the two ends are big???s.. To think they could have had Miathias Manuka or however u spell it, he went after Hali and has had way more production for the Giants!
Why give him time on the field when he can’t stay healthy and can’t do anything in practice?
You might as well call him Ryan Sims or Junior Siavi
I don’t know what Harris is or isn’t doing in practice; I do know that our linebackers are getting run over on a weekly basis.
I’m just wondering if Carr is going to surpass Flowers? The team keeps matching him up with the better reciever.
Our whole team is getting run over on a weekly basis.
To “Dustin”: We could go through every team’s draft in every round for every year and find players they “should have drafted” instead of the guys they got. It’s not a “Chiefs” problem. It’s not a “Carl Peterson” problem. It’s the nature of the NFL draft. Teams hit, and teams miss. The Chiefs’ fortunes aren’t radically different from the rest of the league, despite what some may try to say.
In regards to Napoleon Harris: I have wondered the same thing, in light of seeing Pat Thomas struggle at times so far this season. However, I guess I’m just dumb or naive, because I’m going to defer to the judgement of professional football people who have been involved in the sport for nearly their entire adult lives to make the decision on whether Harris should be on the field or not. Apparently Harris is either too hurt to provide any help, or he just doesn’t fit with what the Chiefs are doing, either on the field, or in terms of his attitude.
Regarding the Draft Class: I think the draft class still looks promising thus far, despite the downpour of negativity following the poor start of the season. Perhaps I’m just a blind, stupidly positive person, but I’m not ready to fire every employee and trade every player following a 1-4 start to a season in which nearly everyone was expecting the team to struggle.
Check back with me later in the season, and I may very well have a different take on the situation. The direction of this team (and therefore, the fate of it’s coaches and front office people) will be best decided by the second half of this season.
Regarding Clark Hunt: For anyone who insists on complaining about Clark Hunt’s ownership of the Chiefs, I would consider that about as worthwhile as complaining about water being wet. You don’t like Clark Hunt, or the way he is operating as owner of the team? Sorry, but you’ll probably just have to get used to it. He’s not going to sell the team. It belongs to him, and he can run it as he sees fit. If it bothers you that much, my best suggestion would be to become a fan of a different team. I’m sure you will be able to pick out plenty of things to complain about with your new favorite team, so you should feel right at home.
Brodie Croyle is back next week, and even though most of you hate him and are ready to run him out of town, I’m excited to have him back, because I want to see him play.
—Tim
Yes, our whole team is getting run over on a weekly basis, and I’ve seen just about every defensive player we have on the field this year except Nap Harris. How many minutes has he played?
Tim
You are truly a voice of reason, no sarcasm intended.
To “ILChiefsFan”: Well, considering the fact that Napoleon Harris has been injured and unable to practice consistently for most of training camp, preseason, and the first 5 weeks of the regular season, I’d say his minutes of playing time are somewhere in the “Zero” range.
Hard to get a guy on the field when he’s in the training room and not on the practice field.
—Tim
I knew Harris was on the injury report the first couple weeks of the season; I didn’t seem him there after that. If that’s the case I’ll shut up and go to my room now.
ILChiefsFan says:
[quote]“Is it possible that Dorsey hasn’t yet adjusted successfully to 3-technique and Herm is just putting a positive spin on his performance so far?”[/quote]
completely possible. That shouldnt excuse the BS though. The chiefs moved their best DT and perfect 3 technique guy in Boone to LDE which was a disaster. They handed Dorsey the starting job and he hasnt lived up to the 3technique position. I fully expect him to make a turnaround in his 2nd year similar to what Tank did this year, but that doesnt excuse moving Boone.
I dont want to here “spin” I can go on and on how Herm contradicts himself even within the same press confrence (heck, even within th 10/8 press conference). It seems that those in charge at 1 Arrowhead drive are convinced fans are stupid and will believe anything they say. That is far from the truth.
October 9, 2008 - Tim says:
[quote]“Sounds like Gunther is losing it a little. He’s marginalizing a superior athlete in favor of freeing up lesser ones. The results of REAL GAMES obviously screams for scheme adjustements.”[/quote]
completely, but Herm has stated that there wont be any changes made. At this point what I would do is move Hali back to LDE and have him be a situational pass rusher (at least till he is healthy) and leave Turk for run defense. Hali is horrible at rush defense unless he is tackling from the backside. I would move Boone (the 1 guy on our line with a sack) back to technique to rotate with Dorsey. TJ Jackson becomes the starting RDE on run downs till Brian Johnston the pass rush specialist (at least until he shows he can become an everydown lineman).
Why move TJ Jackson to RDE? If nothing else he can stop the run, he aldready has experience on the right side (footwork/hand technique), and it is easier making a young guy learn new tricks than an old guy. It cant be any worse than it is right now, and it doesnt hurt to at least try.
Vincent says:
[quote]“Thanks for the breakdown. I’m curious to know how you view the rookies as opposed to Herm. I have thought that the second half of the season is when the 3-4 round boys should come through. Jamal, Dujon, Brad and William should be showing up on the stat sheet. If this is to be a great draft the 3-4th rounds must prove worthwilde.”[/quote]
I pretty much agree with the rest of the assesment. The cbs look good, specially since we have no pass rush. For whatever crazy reason, Herm’s buddy John McGraw is stealing playing time from Dujuan Morgan. The offensive players arent getting a chance because the offensive line is a disaster. Kevin robbinson is another bobby sippio and will/should be cut. He should have never been drafted in the 1st place. The chiefs are in a vicious cycle: They dont have a #2 WR, and they cant protect the QB. The chiefs should have been using the 2TE set as their base package. It is heavy for the run, and affords big targets in the pass game. Although we saw alot of it in preseason and training camp, they abandoned it during the season. Cottam is 6′7” and has 4.6 speed. The chiefs are stupid by not using him. Finally, the chiefs think Barry Richardson is not ready for the RT job since McIntosh is doing splendidly (roll eyes). He should be starting at RG if nothing else. Yes he is tall, but he has long arms and is a mauler in the run game.
Colby,
completely agree with everything you said.
ILChiefsFan says:
[quote]Dorsey’s quick, but I don’t think he was perceived by most scouts as that kind of gap-penetrating DT. That’s certainly not how he played in college.
Most draft experts seemed to think that, despite his relatively small size, he would continue to be a lane-clogger, a guy who would draw the double-team, and a guy who could pursue from the back side of a play. If he can do that successfully I’ll be satisfied even he doesn’t become Warren Sapp.[/quote]
Dorsey was percieved as a once in a decade penetrating Dlineman.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/glenn-dorsey?id=218#player-profile-tab-set-1:player-profile-tab-analysis
Lane clogging tackles are found in the 2nd day of the draft. A #5 overall DT should be a pass rushing force.
Justin Foote says:
[quote]“For someone that likes to quote stats all of the time, you really need to study the roster a little more. First of all, the starting middle linebacker last year was Napoleon Harris, not Nate Harris. And, the guy that replaced him is Pat Thomas, not Pat Harris. The Chiefs have realized that Napo isn’t adapting to the system and they can’t cut him due to his inflated contract.”[/quote]
thanks for catching my mistake, born out of fast typing without proof reading. Obviously you understood what I meant, and I think most others posting here did too.
Nap isnt adapting to our system?! What system?! We are getting run over!! The chiefs have $31 million in cap room..they can afford to cut him.
Dude is not hurt. He participated in practice last week.
TimInKC:
1. IMO, the most amazing thing about the Nap harris situation is the fact that the media isnt asking any questions, or reporting anything about the situation to clear up what is going on.
2. I too have high hopes for this draft class, but I think that the chiefs are not using all of them optimally.
3. I do want to run the coaching staff out of town, not because of a 1-4 season, but because of a lack of leadership and showing complete incompetence since being here.
4. Clark Hunt is a buisness man. The only thing which will force him to make changes is if it affects the bottom line. If fans stop buying tickers, if blackouts occur, and future tax proposals are rejected, he will listen.
5. I too want to see Brodie play, and hopefully win a game.
TimInKC, You have be came one of my favorite comm enters on Bob’s blog, you are (as ILChiefsFan said) you use common sense and fair reason.
But I have to disagree with you on Harris, he played in the pre season game against Miami, remember him and D.Edwards arguing on the field? (No mention from any reporting source of him being injured in that game, including Bob) So I too don’t buy the injury excuse.
I asked this before and it wasn’t a rhetorical question, who is making the personal decisions on Defense?
Also why are we sitting pat w/ McT and Jones? One could go to a virtual World Atlas of roads that may have been taken in the drafting and signing of free agents, but the real telling of a Coach in my opinion is putting guys that are on the roster in the best possible position to excel at any particular position.
And That is Not being done! IMO.
There has been some good, and in the future I think will be great draft picks, But to stand your ground on one or two guys when the whole world can see that they are not going to work out is not only unfair to the team but to the fans.
And yes I know no ownership cares about the fans so that is not unique to the Chiefs.
findthedr -
Here’s what the link you posted says about Dorsey:
“Compares To: WARREN SAPP-Oakland…While both have made a nice living off their explosive initial step, Dorsey does not have the same game-changing ability Sapp displayed during the prime of his career. Let’s face it, Dorsey is a good sanitation man (takes out the trash by handling multiple blockers, thus freeing a teammate up to make the play), but if statistics tell the true story, he had just 13 sacks, 27 stops for losses and seven quarterback pressures in 51 collegiate games. While we will follow the party line that he could develop into another Sapp, he also could be a clone of a former LSU Tiger, Anthony McFarland.”
That sounds more like my description than yours.
Nice call on that one ILChiefsFan.
I think we all have learned to take what some people quote with a grain of salt, one can not take them at there word when supposedly quoting.
BRIAN DE LA PUENTE at C and Rudy Niswanger at RG makes perfect sense…next year. Remember when Free Agency opened and Squerm whined about Tampa tampering with C Jeff Faine? I think the plan then was for Faine at C and Rudy at RG. Getting shut out of FA and losing Wigmann forced Squerm’s hand at C and RG.
For the record, I’m not down on Dorsey, I agree with findthedr that he will develop into a fine player.
All I’m saying is that, considering the pitfalls of judging NFL talent, I’ll be content if he’s Dan Saleaumua for the next 10 years and not Warren Sapp. Yes, in most people’s opinion a #5 is too high a price to pay for that kind of player, but every year players are drafted in the first round who don’t even become consistent starters.
I understood your point ILChiefsFan, and I happen to agree. Saleaumua was exactly who I was thinking of.
But do you remember how his production dropped off when the Chiefs hired Dave Adolph?
Not only him but the whole D line suffered, Including the D-Ends!
^yeah, I read that about Dorsey beore posting that, but posted anyway because that was the most complete profile out there. I would rather show a complete analysis than show a link to prove my point.
Here is what an article said:
The conclusion: Pray like hell that your team drafts Glenn Dorsey, the LSU defensive tackle who won the Bronko Nagurski (defensive player), Outland Trophy (interior lineman) and Rotary Lombardi Award (lineman or linebacker) this year. As the chart below shows, award-winners on the defensive side of the ball do better in the pros than any other honorees, and linemen who win college hardware may be the safest bet of all.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=3177659
Based on those stats, history shows that Dorsey will likely be a pro bowler one day.
I expect Dorsey to continue to get better, but ‘hit a wall’ around the 10th week. That goes for most of the rookies.
findthedr -
Attributing my Dorsey opinion to “most scouts” was overstatement on my part, but I did see several scouting reports at the time caution against comparing him to Sapp.
On the other hand, guys like Mike Mayock were talking like he was Moses.
“Findthedr.
For at least the last 2 seasons, the chiefs had been grooming Niswanger to be the starting center. At that point, they never thought his 6′5” height would be an issue, even though it has been brought up numerous times.”
So when Niswanger was only playing guard last year, they were grooming him for center?
Niswanger at center only came up pre-draft, b/c noone knew who was going to play where, we didn’t have any players to play anything from center all the way over to the right tackle. Herm had to come with an answer after letting Wiegmann walk.
Also, Nate Harris’s stats looked nothing like that last year. Napoleon Harris’s did. You have me questioning your Chiefs knowledge.
Adam,
you are completely wrong on Niswanger. He played Guard a little last year due to injuries and incompetence. Casey (although struggling) was still holding down the fort at Center.
From the moment he was a chief, Niswanger was groomed to be the replacement at center.
Here are the links to the chiefs 2006 and 2007 wiki pages which list him as a center on the final roster. If someone has access to previous years depth charts, it will also show him as the backup at center.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season#Roster
for whatever reason i am having a hard time being able to post the 2006 link
————–
my typo Nate Harris and Napolean harris goofe was aldready addressed. When i was talking about the MLB position and rattled off a bunch of stats, were you really that confused about ‘Nate Harris’?!
you, Justinfoote, and others are more than welcome to question my knowledge, but I think it is a little disingenuine to use obvious typos to dismiss my point and question my chiefs knowledge (which should be clearly evident from all my posts and the links that i provide).
So far some here think I use aliases because once i put ‘findthed’ instead of ‘findthedr’…others queston my knowledge based on typos….only thing left is the spelling police. lol.
I think yr right aPauled:
“BRIAN DE LA PUENTE at C and Rudy Niswanger at RG makes perfect sense…next year. Remember when Free Agency opened and Squerm whined about Tampa tampering with C Jeff Faine? I think the plan then was for Faine at C and Rudy at RG. Getting shut out of FA and losing Wigmann forced Squerm’s hand at C and RG.”
Thanks for the article Bob.
A lot of good posts as well, even if some got off the focus of the article.
The play of many of our newest guys is encouraging for the future.
The coaching staff will continue to tweak, that is what good coaches do!
You guys will have to excuse findthedr. You can not question his knowledge or his willingness to invest many hours digging up stats, posts, and articles. The only question is: Is that fire fueled by his passion for the Chiefs or his HATRED FOR THE COACH!
^ answer is both.
Talk is cheap, action is better. I love the chiefs, and hate anything that makes it worse. Right now, Herm is making it worse.
Anyone here Grunhard on the radio this week on the Petro show?
a poster on another site said that he broke down how pathetic our D-line is. Basically pointed out that they are all lacking a second move. Pointed it out as a sign that the defensive coaches really don’t know what they are doing at all in developing D-linemen, which helps explain why we burn through so many 1st round picks.
Explains why Dorsey is taking on blockers when he should be playing 3 technique.