I’m not hardcore pro or con Edwards, but stuff like this and Pat Thomas at MLB, Alfonso Boone at DE,and moving Hali from one side to the other (and keeping him there too long), among many other moves, just make me scratch my head.

And when someone says, we knew it would be hard but not this hard (about rebuilding and playing a bunch of rookies), then you have to wonder. To put a college team on the field in the NFL, and then be suprised you win only 2 games? Maybe it is time for a new HC. If not, Edwards needs to be surrounded by new, top-notch GM, assistants and coordinators. Gailey could stay, maybe. Not so much the rest. And, as Whitlock said, whoever is responsible for playing Dorsey like that should be out the door yesterday.

However, I don’t buy this can’t run from the spread stuff. They haven’t really tried that much, and when we have, it’s been pretty effective (9 yards/carry last game). Even if you take away Johnson’s 33 yard run, he still averaged 6.8/carry on the other runs.

What exactly are they afraid is going to happen if you do it 5-8 more times a game?

AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!

I think with the coaches I’ve suggested, in either option, I think there would be a complete turnaround next year. Add a few FA’s and another good draft and we will see a major difference.

Here’s something I haven’t heard: Marty S. has a proven system to build a team. He did it in KC, Washington, and San Diego. Dick V. had a profile he used and our offense was proof of that profile. Neither of them took us to the big show granted but they implemented their plan and did what they always do with those plans.

Herm has never said he had a plan, only that we need to build through the draft. That is what all SCOUTS say and help teams do. Therefore, we will never have a team built or a profile show fruition with Herm. He is a SCOUT.

We need to get someone in here with a proven plan, profile, or system of building a winning franchise. That’s what Clark wants and everyone of us.

oops

Notice that the youngest player starting for the Packers is 24. Their obviously training this guys first and making them earn the spot. But there is absolutely no dispute that the lineup above is anything but young. They just don’t have the 22 year olds skewing the average. Their on the bench and learning in practice.

Excuses are what Herm is best for and the Herm supporters follow suit to a tee. They also don’t put any blame on Herm, just like Herm himself! I won’t go into the Herm argument too deeply anymore. We’ve all covered it from every conceivable angle. When he’s fired in the next few weeks it will all be a moot point anyway.

When Pioli, McDaniels, Capers, and Cassel come over here from New England, they’ll take this franchise in the right direction.

For those who say Herma has done a great job…can you really point to any progress since about the 5th game? That is all I have been looking for. Nobody (I would assume) should complain about the youth movement, but many of those players haven’t improved over the season. I would point to Albert, Carr, and Flowers, but that is about it for obvious improvement. Where is the teaching?

I alsow question many personnel moves. I was perplexed when we activated Robinson and Merritt. Two rookies who hadn’t even been in training camp, one of whom who only returns kicks and the other who is inactive each week. I really thought keeping Walden was a no brainer since he made a good portion of the tackles on special teams.

I dont’ question Herm’s ability to identify potential in players or to motivate them. He would be a great VP of player development. He just doesn’t seem to be able to get the x’s and o’s thing to work.

jennings 25
lee 28
clifton 32
colledge 26
wells 27
spitz 26
moll 25
driver 33
rodgers 25
Hall 25
grant 26
kapman 29
Pickett 29
jolly 25
montgomery 25
bishop 24
hawk 24
poppinga 29
woodson 32
rouse 24
collins 25
harris 34

This was taken from Dallas News.com

The Green Bay Packers tie the Chiefs for the youngest roster in 2008 with an average age of 25.57 years. The Chiefs, with the league’s youngest lineup, are playing their youth. The Green Bay starting lineup is tied for 18th in the NFL at 27.31 years of age.

OPENING DAY PROFILES
Here’s the average age of each team’s starting lineup on opening day, plus the number of players in the lineup 30 years of age or older:

Team Age 30s
Kansas City 25.18 3
Houston 25.77 2
Indianapolis 26.18 2
Buffalo 26.40 3
Oakland 26.59 4
Cleveland 26.72 4
Atlanta 26.77 5
Baltimore 26.86 5
Carolina 26.95 5
Philadelphia 27.0 5
Cincinnati 27.0 7
Minnesota 27.13 5
New Orleans 27.18 5
Arizona 27.27 4
NY Giants 27.27 5
Seattle 27.27 6
Miami 27.27 8
Green Bay 27.31 5
Chicago 27.31 6
Denver 27.36 7
San Diego 27.54 6
San Francisco 27.63 5
St. Louis 27.68 7
Tennessee 27.72 5
Detroit 27.90 8
NY Jets 27.90 8
Jacksonville 27.95 5
Tampa Bay 28.18 6
Pittsburgh 28.18 7
Dallas 28.22 6
New England 28.22 8
Washington 28.63 9

green bay has an advantage in age and experience playing, young teams get beat, but they learn and get better. Houston had the second youngest starting lineup and there not looking bad this year, next year they should be alot better along with the Chiefs…

Go back and watch weeks 1 2 3 or 4 take your pick, then watch the last three games, just watch the O-Line,if your not blind you can see some major improvement.
Granted Thigpen’s mobility has made the O-Lines job easier but, Smith has made a big difference, Jones had shown improvement too before his injury, and even McIntosh has made big strides.

But imo we still need to address the center position, (I love Niswanger, how could anyone not admire his effort) but he is not a center. We have to address that issue.
If that means moving Waters over to Center and plugging Jones into either L Guard or return him to R.Guard and move Smith to the left side.
Or if we should draft Oher or Smith and then move Albert to Guard for Waters or some combination of that.
Or sign a free agent at Guard, Center or R Tackle, any way you look at it, we have enough guys to improve the line even more by either drafting one O-lineman and signing one free agent.
IF we do some combination of this, the O-line could be set for quit some time.
Nieswanger figures in there somewhere, maybe backup Macintosh and eventually replace him or at Guard, but he has a place on this team.

You should really do your homework before spouting off. Yes, the Packers STARTERS are young too. They only have 4 starters 30 or older, which is less than the chiefs before injuries (Waters, McIntosh, Tony G., Surtain, D. Edwards)

And the rest of the roster’s age matters too. Where do you think most teams put their up and comers and developing players?

2004: 27.2 /game
2005: 20.3 /game
2006: 19.7 /game
2007: 20.9 /game
2008: 28.3 /game

So looking at those numbers you can actually say with a straight face that the defensive improvement came in 2006 and not 2005? What a lark. Points per game don’t tell the whole story, but yards per game do? You mean when we were blowing up the scoreboard on offense and playing prevent late in the game giving up 100 extra yards with no consequence? Yeah, that’s a much better “story”. Come on.

I agree that the QB instability hurt this team early in this season, but even now with an offense the best its been in 2 years we still only won one game. That’s why it’s hard to blame it all on the “3rd string QB” thing.

As for the 3rd string quarterback being used as an excuse. ITs the truth. I don’t care how good Tyler is playing good doesn’t negate the fact he was 3rd string guy that played awful in the preseason and the Atlanta game. You, I, and know one else knew he was going to play this well. So give HErm and Chan credit for getting the guy prepared and give Herm credit for scooping the guy away from the Vikings because he seen the potential, but no one like yourself is going to give Herm credit for anything because you to busy pointing out the flaws like you’re perfect.

He’s the only coach who would go young?! That’s a laugh too! How do you explain all the other young teams out there then? How do explain the Packers being the youngest team in the NFL last year WITH BRETT FARVE?! And they were highly competitive!

And to your question about have the improved this season? Well, the defense sure hasn’t. Special teams hasn’t. Offense did, but most of that was from a switch in scheme and QB, as evidenced by the “sudden” improvement. The only group of players I see significant improvement from is the offensive line, and some even argue some of that improvement is from the spread offense.

Lastly, the 2005 chiefs (starter or 53-man roster) wasn’t the oldest in the league. Look it up yourself, i have. But it doesn’t really matter, they were old. Just not the oldest.

So I think Herm has done a good job given the oldest starting team in the NFL when he got there… You can argue the team wasn’t the oldest, but in reality, the team had the oldest starting bunch out of all the NFL teams… He vetted the team last year and should get his last year of his contract to show the progress they have made.

It’s funny you don’t give defensive improvement credit until 2006, when in reality it happened in 2005 when we jumped up to 16th in the league in points against. We hovered around 15th in 2006 and 2007 and took a big step backward when Herm put his stamp on the defensive line this year. Congrats Herm on the worst Chiefs defense this decade!

Defense is what Herm was supposed to help on this team, but it’s now the worst. On one hand you want to say “this is Herm’s first real year”, but then when it comes to the defense, you say “Herm helped it in 2006 and 2007, but then in 2008 it’s Gunther’s fault”.

Which is it?

As for the defense Gunther has got to go. The only shining moment he’s had as defensive coord. was in 2006 and 2007 when Herm was hired the defense ranked in the top 15. Now it looks like the Herm effect is wearing off. And we’re right back to how it was when Vermeil was here. Gunther just doesn’t get the Tampa 2 and he definately doesn’t understand how to develop talent. Derrick hasn’t developed and neither has our defensive line. Get rid of him and Krummie. And hire a real def

It’s like we’re trying to argue if cherries are red or blue and you guys just keep saying, “they’re tasty”

GM: Scott Pioli
Head Coach: Josh McDaniels (Patriots Off. Coord./Quarterbacks)
Off. Coord: Al Saunders (Rams/Redskins/Chiefs)
Quarterbacks: Eric Price (Current WR coach)
Wide Receivers: Bob Saunders (Rams/Redskins/Chiefs)
Off. Line: Frank Verducci (Browns/Buffalo/Dallas/Bengals)
Running Backs: Anthony Lynn (Browns/Dallas/Jaguars/Denver)
Tight Ends: John Embree (Current TE coach)
Def. Coord: Romeo Crennel (Browns/Patriots)
Linebackers: Mike Haluchak (Browns LB coach)
Def. Line: Randy Melvin (Browns/Patriots)
Def. Backs: Cory Undlin (Browns/Patriots)

As you can see there are a lot of connections to the Browns because of Romeo Crennel. Also some of the coaches have connections to the Patriots. Since Pioli and McDaniels will come from that organization it only makes sense and since Romeo came from the Patriots as well he will have some influence as to his coaching staff.

Al and Bob Saunders come back simply because they will help Josh put together an AWESOME offense that will lead the league in passing as well as rushing which we had when Vermeil was here. This will compliment the defense that Romeo will put together. 3 Superbowl rings have some clout.
Comments??

http://www.chiefswarpath.com/news/2008/10/24/not-a-titan-model/

Oh you have an article for me? Is it by any chance by that fool Kent Babb who is the worst sports writer I’ve ever read and never has any references? I’d love to see a credible article that isn’t just spreading this common but unfounded rumor. The fact is, Herm denies it himself.

An even better fact is there is little more we could have done to rebuild more than we already were. We’ve been letting go of veterans from the onset (e.g. T-Rich), keeping all our draft picks, and bringing in a lot of college free agents. What more could we have done?

And please please please stop confusing Herms player acquisition with his head coaching. I’m not arguing about some of the players we’ve brought in, I’m saying we’ll be much better with a different coach leading them!!

It gets old reading the we hate Herm stuff…no one is to blame for the chiefs being bad…

I’ll take 2-14 and rebuilding any day over 8-8 each year trying to just make the playoffs…

they blew up their team a few years ago, and have drafted really well…

Have you seen them sign any big name guys? Nope! they had a few 4-12 teams and now look at them

the elite teams do what the chiefs are now doing…and you DO have to give herm credit for this as NO other coach has done this in the Carl Peterson era…

It totally IS accurate about Herm wanting to rebuild and Carl resisting…I have the article for you if you like?

I don’t think it is a coincidence that the Chiefs always signed 30 somethings year in and year out, and then Herm comes in and they do this…

In my opinion, it would be a TRAVESTY to fire Herm and then another coach comes in and takes these players that Herm has groomed to the playoffs…

Herm needs one more year to see what HIS team can do!

It wouldn’t be right to fire him, just 1 year into the rebuilding that the Owner says he wants…

Its like, lets hire a coach that will play nothing but young kids for a year. And they will suck because they are so young…but lets fire the coach before those players get better? We told him to play them, knowing we would struggle, but now we are going to fire him? And let another coach reep the rewards of all these rookies learning on the fly?

That is totally wrong and I GUARANTEE you that Herm is back for 2009…

It sounds like you would have fit in just perfectly in 1939 Nazi Germany. “They must know what their doing more than me. After all, it’s their job.”

But, are you forgetting the first 6 weeks of the season???? this team couldn’t score 10 points all game?! Have you forgotten that?? The new offense has pumped life into this team, and have been competitive from day one…You have to give credit for that…he has allowed Gailey to go against his mantra…and to me, that is good coaching instead of forcing a square peg into a round hole…

you have to be kiddin about being a buddy. I didn’t say a buddy, I said they like playin for him…that goes a long way. Herm is a players coach…and how you think that can be a bad thing is beyond me.

My point is not to argue with minor things about why you think he is so awful…here is my point.

Why don’t the whiners and complainers go over to an Oakland Raiders or Denver Broncos board to do all of your complaining? I am sure you will fit in there…I feel like I am reading a raiders board sometimes with all this bashing of the Chiefs…I mean, I thought we were Chiefs fans? What makes you think you know more about the NFL than GM’s and VP’s that have been in the industry for 30 years? I mean, I am the type of fan that thinks, “well, they work on improving this team 40 to 80 hours a week 52 weeks out of the year. They have scouts all over the U.S. and so I think they have a better idea about what they are doing than you do, who watches them for 3 hours and reads blogs.

With that being said…support your team and look at the bright spots. These guys wanna WIN the game too and they are working for it. Their jobs are at stake, not yours.

Have a little faith in our team, our coaches and our personel…and if you don’t go bash the chiefs with the raiders and broncos…I just get tired of hearing it

1) no one is arguing against getting younger, so quit trying to equate that to Herms head coaching ability

2) Vermeil’s playoff record just as goood as Herm’s??? AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahaha.. . hahahahahaa.ahjahahhahahahahahahha. Vermeil had a .545 winning percentage in the playoffs, 2 SB appearances, 1 victory. Herm is 2-4 in the playoffs and never even made it past the divisional round… good chuckle

3)Vermeil’s team was old, but it’s just an urban legend that they we’re the oldest in the NFL. Look it up yourself.

4) I love this lie that “Poor Herm wanted to rebuild but Peterson wouldn’t let him”. Just not true and Herm even denies it himself. By the way, how could we have been rebuilding more since 2006? We didn’t trade away any draft picks. How could we of magically created more draft picks?

5) What do expect to change about herm in “one more year” after 8 years of data to go on already?

Year 1 of rebuilding and everybody is freaking out.

Its a process. Yah its year 1. Herms first year everybody was worried about dismantling the offense, he kept it, we got our ass handed to us in Indy. Last year wanted to blow the whole thing up, GM wanted to rebuild but remain competitive, arguably the worse season I have ever witnessed as a chiefs fan.

Which brings us to Year 1 of the plan he wanted from the get go.

just to address the defensive concerns, IMO:

Herms 1st & 2nd year our defenses were in the top 15. This defense is totally new compared to those 2 defenses. New players at every level, 1 year starters at every position except RDE, Linebacker are a joke (we are playing with guys off the street) secondary is solid. We are going to be okay.

I’m patient, I’m frustrated. I just want to see the guy in year 2, to me year 2 of this project will give us a full clear view of this teams direction. All these guys with 1 year of playing behind I think will really be flying around next year. I think B. Carr is overated, Leggett will surpass him next year. Horrible tackler and always letting guys catch the ball in front of him.

Tyler’s play has hit a plateau. Still locking on to 1st read, and throwing into double coverage way to often. His footwork sucks as well, all his throw are all arm, he hardly ever uses his wholed body when throwing down field, drives me crazy.

How about D-Mac stepping up, I for one couldn’t stand this guy. But the second half of the year he has not been visible (which is good)did anybody see him blow 2 guys up on the charles screen? and blocking J.Porter when he went to his side. He has improved.

This rebuilding is going to take awhile, so get used to it… No matter who the coach is…

I would much rather have a young team that we created from scratch and can get behind. Then have another Vermeil special, where we sacrifice the future of the team for a one time chance to make something happen…

Guess what? Vermeil’s playoff record is just as good as Herm’s. Except he left a team that was the oldest in the NFL and hanging on by a thread. If Peterson would have let Herm start this rebuilding process when he first got here, we would be in the playoffs THIS YEAR!!!

Herm needs at least one more year before we can actually evaluate his success here in KC. We need some Patience…

Go to kcchiefs.com to watch the whole postgame comments. Herm gets asked why they didn’t run more and he gets frustrated and goes on a tirade about how “you can’t run in the spread” and “we’re a passing team now” in a VERY MOCKING way.

Have you ever heard Herm talk before? All he ever talks about is running the ball. He obviously hates this offense because he feel like they can’t run enough.

He only allowed the change in offensive philosophy out of desperation to show improvement and save his job. The funny part is everything about this offense flies in the face in every press conference he ever gave in the 7 years before that. Shifts, diversions, pulling linemen, throwing when you have to.. these are all things Herm said REPEATEDLY were the wrong thing to do. Now we’re doing it successfully and it’s killing him

Not saying I agree with all his decisions, b/c I don’t, but if your going to list things I want some specific things, and not just 1 or two. Anyone can just list stuff that maybe has happened a handful of times. And say how bad something is.

Herm & his staff hand picked Tyler off the Minnesota Practice squad. They started him and he looked like a freshmen in college against Atlanta. There were injuries, when that happened they gave him a second chance, and set him up for success by changing the offense. Everybody who watched Thiggy play against at Atlanta saw that he struggled mightly. They made adjustments & he played better give credit when credit is due. Herm looked for an OC in the off season, that didn’t have a specific offense, but rather could build an offense to his players strengths. Give him credit for that kind of hire.

I not saying to fire or keep Herm, but be specific if you feel a certain way be specific.

Tired of people just saying stuff to say stuff.

Oh, and I heard a football player tell me one time (Mike Jones, up here in st. Louis on 590 The Fan AM) say this about halftime…

He said, that it is close to impossible to make big enough adjustments during halftime. You have your game plan and most adjustments are made during the game…like Blitz or not. Pass or run… They have 20 minutes at the half. By the time the team gets into the locker, they have about 17 minutes.

So, in 17 minutes how much are you going to change? It’s not like you can scrap your entire scheme and start over? So, what would you tell the team to do for the second half? What would you change?

The reason this offense struggles in the second half is because they are young and they don’t know how to close out games…The dolphins ran the wildcat, did play action passes and played the same game they did in the first half.

I am not saying Herm doesn’t make mistakes. He does, but Coaches are a HUGE part of personell and acquiring players…

Herm was defending the spread today after the game. Go to arrowheadpride.com to see that…

He adapts and the players like him. The team respects him. Go to nfl.com and watch mic’d up for the chiefs. You get to see Herm interact with his players during the week, and they all love him…

He is a players coach…so was Dick Vermeil…players want to play for coaches like these guys…plain and simple…

Herm is HIGHLY respected around the league…us dumb fans think we know, but we really don’t.

The microscope argument might make sense for someone who’s never followed another team or the Chiefs before Herm, but then again, that sure doesn’t describe me. Again, it only speaks for yourself.

Do you know this for a fact? Or are you jumping on the rumor wagon?

Clark Hunt has RE-RE-affirmed Herm…and so does Rin! Keep up the great work Coach!

Herm was forced to go to Thigpen. Herm was forced to use this new offense. Herm absolutely HATES this new offense (listen to his postgame comments today, he talks down on the whole spread offense) because it proves his ideas were what was holding the offense back the 2.5 years before Chan was given power.

Herm is going for it on 4th now that they have nothing to lose. He sure didn’t do it the 7.5 years before that.

Its funny, the only things you are giving him credit for are things that are against his philosophies and that he’s only done out of desperation the last 5-6 games! In essence, you’ve just agreed with me.

Oh, and also as a horrible coach:
-worst clock and time out management of all time
-horrible half time adjutments
-all decisions predicated on fear rather than sound judgment and probability
-no self accountability
-Blames “luck” and “circumstance” instead of identifying problem and coming up with a solution
- and on and on and on and fig newton and on