Chan Talks About the Offense
Remember the old Abbott & Costello routine about “Who’s on first, what’s on second and I don’t know is on third base.”
That’s the type of season it’s been for offensive coordinator Chan Gailey. It hasn’t been who is on first, but who is the starting quarterback, what are the Chiefs going to do and I don’t know who the running back is going to be.
“You have to be adaptable in this game,” Gailey said after the Chiefs finished their Thursday practice session. “What was it a couple years ago when the Falcons and the Broncos were both in the Super Bowl and they had not lost a player all year to injury. That’s pretty unusual on one end. This has been pretty unusual on the other.”
As the Chiefs get ready to start the second half of the 2008 season, Gailey took a few moments to talk about the team’s offense, where it’s been and where it is going.
Give us your evaluation of the offense over the first eight games.
“Certainly inconsistent is the term that’s been used most often and I think that’s right. From week to week we struggled to keep doing the things we were doing well and we struggled to improve what we weren’t doing well. Some weeks we looked good and some weeks we looked awful. If we can create a more consistent offense, that’s what I’m looking for. There are lots of reasons it’s happened and reasons become excuses if you let that happen. I don’t want to do that.”
Whether it’s a reason or an excuse, the situation at quarterback can’t be ignored. This weekend you will start the same quarterback for the third game in a row; that’s the first time that’s happen this year. That has to have been the major reason/excuse/problem that you’ve had to deal with.
“That will help, but remember we will be starting a new tailback, so it’s always something. That’s part of the game. In the NFL you are going to have injuries and it’s going to give somebody else opportunities. If you can create consistency it helps you and keeping your guys on the field and keeping them playing is the fastest way to make that happen and you have a much better chance for success.”
You said before this season started that there was no label for this offense, that whatever these players did best, you would do. I imagine under the circumstances you’ve had to dust off a few more pages from the playbook than you ever imagined you would have to do in this first year.
“That’s exactly right. What you would like to be is a more pound it out, ball control offense, but that’s not what we are right now. I’m learning about who we are every week as well. Like the players, I’m learning something every week as well.”
One of the things that always helps an offense gain consistency is when the offensive line is playing good football. It looks like in the last few weeks your line has made some progress. How much of a difference has that made?
“It’s helped a lot. We’ve had the same five guys for maybe four weeks in a row now. That helps. That’s the key crew, because without communication and a comfort level in that crew, you don’t have a chance for success.”
Something seems to have clicked with Tyler Thigpen. Tell us your view of his development and where he’s at right now. The hurried dynamo that was out there earlier seems to have really calmed down and he’s allowing things to happen, rather than trying to make them happen himself. Is that a fair assessment?
“That’s what has happened and I think you will see it more and more as time goes on. We see it because we have the sharper eye for it and we still see times when he reverts. But there’s no question there has been a major transformation from the guy we saw in Atlanta to the guy we saw last week. I think he learned something from the at Atlanta game. He went down there and thought he was going to do all these things and it didn’t happen and he threw picks and put us in bad situations; that was a great learning experience. It cost us a game, but maybe we wouldn’t have won it anyway. The point is, he learned a lot and you’ve got to give him credit, he took what he learned and applied it.
“He’s a lot calmer in the pocket than he was and much more willing to hang in there and allow the entire play to develop before cashing out and moving on to a scramble.”
What’s the next step for him?
“The next step is how far we can stake the stuff that he does well. That’s where we are now. He’s learning every week what he can do and we are learning every week what he can do. Where it goes from here, I’ll be honest with you, I don’t know. I’m as anxious as anybody to see where it takes us. But we are going to continue to develop these things that he does well. He’s good in the shotgun; he’s very comfortable with that. We’ve got to develop a running game out of that and we are working on that.”
It’s good for your sanity that you aren’t set your ways in the offensive scheme, because you’d be in the coach’s sanitarium right now based on this season.
“You can’t get in that rut. Now, I’m as bad as anybody. I keep trying sometimes to put the square pegs in the round holes. You do have to be flexible, you do have to adapt and I think our staff has done a pretty good job of adjusting as a group. It’s not just me, but our group.
And you already know you are going to have to adjust again next week when Larry Johnson comes back and adds another new dimension to what you are doing.
“You’ve got to put guys in position to do what they do best. If we are continuing to expand what we’ve done the last few weeks, then really Larry is going to have to learn to adjust to this stuff too. It’s for the good of the team.”
too bad know one asked:
1. The level of Herm’s influence in the offense over the last 2 games compared to earlier in the season
2. How many offensive plays Herm ’suggests’, ‘over-rules’, or calls per game and the result of those.
Hope the creativity and success in the offensive playcalling continues.
yes, I know my spelling is horrible and that I should have put ‘no’ instead of ‘know.’
This is the first wrinkle in the new Chiefs -LJ is going to have to adjust to a new offensive “shotgun” system… Cool.
ill be at the game on Sunday hope we make it to in a row beating the SD at home. I will be right behind the Chiefs sideline giving Herm an ear full if i dont like what i see and maybe shout out a play or two :).
Im sorry, but if you think Herm is calling all the plays over an EX NFL Head Coach, cmon…please…Chan is in charge of the offense. period. Did Vermeil get the credit or did Martz in St Louis? Because it was really Vermeil and Saunders that year with Gansz Sr.
Chan Gailey says:
“What you would like to be is a more pound it out, ball control offense, but that’s not what we are right now. I’m learning about who we are every week as well. Like the players, I’m learning something every week as well.”
This is the absolute best attitude a coach can have. Put the players you’ve got in the best position to succeed even if it conflicts a bit with your own philosophy. Don’t bang your head against a wall all season and hope that they eventually “get it” but design plays that they are comfortable and capable of running and never be afraid to try something new.
Best of all, never be afraid to learn. Too many coaches at this level (Herm) seem to think that they already know everything there is to know about the game. Chan is a class act who isn’t afraid to admit that he is still learning things every week.
When Herm hired Solari, he responded to a question about whether Solari would have freedom to call the plays he wants, Herm responded (roughly), “He’ll call in the plays, but he knows what I expect.” To me, that says it all about Herm’s heavy-handed involvement. He sets the overall scheme of the gameplan, he lets the OC know what he wants called in what situations. So basically we had someone guessing what Herm would want, which is almost as bad as Herm calling them himself.
The question is, did Chan start ignoring him, or did Herm actually give up?
Well, first off always good to hear from the coordinators.
Secondly, always funny to hear some of the same out of the same ole folks.
If Chan has figured out a way to move this offense (witch he has) why should we question were the final “call” comes from. (personally I think, or like to think, that it is a meeting of the minds type of conversation when a call is made, (that is how we did it when I coached pop warner - 05′ Lee Summit Eagles represent!)
I guess what I am trying to say is that Chan has, basically, summed it up in the interview that, this season so far has been a learning one for him (and I imagine the entire staff).
I think the question isn’t how many plays Herm is calling himself or overruling(Jay A and findthedr), but rather it should be, Can the Chiefs coaching STAFF continue to call plays that “move the offense” and score points? Or will this get caught onto and figured out before it really begins?
All in all, lets not try to figure out who to place blame on until this cart has reached the end of the season, then we can figure out witch horses need to go.
JB
Jay A.
I think you nailed it. Herm expects to pound that square peg in the round hole so that the team can learn to win in those close games, but he doesn’t have that type of team yet. I don’t think Chan has said “screw Herm” (Harm) yet, but maybe they finally decided that with what they have to work with, they should expand the game plan from run, run, pass, punt.
I’ll bet Herm squeals quietly to himself every time they run a trick play.
Colby, I think you are dead on. Before you can fix a problem you must be able to see, identify, and admit the problem and that you don’t know how to fix it. Then and only then can you start to fix the problem. I am so glad that we are not going to be LJ for 2 LJ for 2, pass for one or no yards, and punt anymore
findthedr,
It wouldn’t matter if anyone asked. No one would believe the answer anyway.
Many people have made up their minds that Herm is personally calling the plays when things are going bad and that Herm must be taking a bathroom break when things are going well.
The facts are that we have had a different QB nearly every week and lately, different RBs. That hurts the Offensive Coordinator (especially one in his first year still getting familiar with his players) in figuring out what each player or combination of players does well and working with that.
Thigpen has been able to be around long enough that they have learned what he does well and are taking advantage of that.
Blaming unpopular playcalls on the head coach is too easy and almost always unfair. Especially when so many other much more obvious problems exist.
Jay A
“I think you nailed it. Herm expects to pound that square peg in the round hole so that the team can learn to win in those close games, but he doesn’t have that type of team yet. I don’t think Chan has said “screw Herm” (Harm) yet, but maybe they finally decided that with what they have to work with, they should expand the game plan from run, run, pass, punt.
I’ll bet Herm squeals quietly to himself every time they run a trick play.”
Herm has a philosophy that he believes is what is necessary to win championships. He didn’t come up with this out of the blue, the philosophy of playing good defense, running the ball and not turning the ball over is accepted by nearly everybody as the path you must take to go all the way.
So while yes, we don’t have the personnel at this moment to do it the way we need to, it doesn’t mean you just abandon the development of that altogether because eventually you WILL have the personnel and when you do those guys need to know how to play that way.
The RRPP is a myth and always has been. But the plays you call have to be based on the personnel you have. If your offensive line is incapable of holding guys long enough for the QB to do a 5 step drop (which it has been the entire time Herm has been here), you are setting your guys up for failure trying to throw deep when they simply cant do it.
The fact that they are able to do it now proves that they are growing together and developing.
Some of you guys think that you know Herm, and you don’t know squat about him. Ultimately the blame falls on him so hell yes he has the final say, on everything that happens which is how it should be. I could list many of you who’s hate for Herm is disgusting and more discouraging than the Chiefs record right now. findthedr’s problem is that he isn’t creative enough to think of anything but to blame the coach! It is sickening really!
I’m not sure I understand when people say we’re waiting to see if this offense gets caught onto and stopped. The Chiefs have not reinvented the wheel here. Spread offense, shotgun, roll-outs, mixed in with your standard stuff? I don’t think it’s a matter of anyone catching up to it. I think they can figure out what you’re doing, sure, but stopping it is another thing. To me, you just keep adding new wrinkles to it; finding more and more ways to run out of it, and calling unexpected plays at unexpected times, thus creating more and more mismatches and keeping the opposition off balance. More key is having the right type of players for it, first and foremost, the quarterback. Thigpen’s athleticism and ability to run and pass creates a mismatch from the get-go, and moving him around creates those all over the field; and that in turn creates opportunities and mismatches for everyone else on offense, from the RB’s to WR’s and TE’s, even the OL. You start think’n…what can we do with a guy like Charles out of this; with a power runner like LJ; with TE’s like Gonzo and Cottam, with a WR like Bradley who can pass…If left to it, I think Gailey can make this offense into a beast; both dynamic and balanced. I want to see how far he can go with it.
i wish the chiefs faithful would stop the negative and watch this team grow why negative talk every week about herm .does any one but a few of you know how many rookies are starting every week probaly not or just havent figured out how to complain and blame herm for rebuilding a team that hasnt brought a championship to the chiefs since when i read the bob sight to be able to relate to real chiefs fans not fans that are habitual complainers about the chiefs instead of loyalists of the red and gold WITH PATIENCE COME THE REWARD we are building and ive waited so long that i can be realistic and see the progress a very young team has acheived GO CHIEFS
ChiefDJ,
I agreed with a lot of what you said until you said,”The RRPP is a myth and always has been.”
That, along with his struggles with clock-management and game-day decisions has been well documented since his days coaching the Jets.
Part of the reason our pass protection is “suddenly” better is because of the more balanced and unpredictable play-calling of late.
When is it easier to rush the passer, when you’re 99% sure they’re going to pass or when you’re only 50% sure and have to simultaneously protect your gap in case of run?
Sure, you can win with a reluctant offense if you have a great defense like the bucs of old or the 2000 Ravens, but most other teams (Colts, Rams, Patriots, etc) needed a good offense and balance to go all the way.
Herm’s philosophy is tired and old fashioned. He just wants to tell people what they’re going to do and beat them physically. That’s cool if you can do it, but why not use your head too? There’s nothing wrong with trying to outsmart the opponent a little. When Herm rips on the use of diversions, motion, etc, it just reminds me how close-minded and one dimensional his philosophy is.
There are some people who have to take every bit of news and jam it into one of several paradigms:
1) Herm sucks and should be fired
2) CP sucks and should be fired
3) Glenn Dorsey sucks and is a bust
4) Herm doesn’t want to score points
5) Gunther Cunningham sucks and should be fired
Any or all of them might actually be true, but I am not persuaded all that much when someone uses logic like the fact that we have opened up the offense as proof that Herm refuses to allow us to open up the offense.
I think that Gailey is the Chiefs best chance of improving as a team and becoming what we all expect them to be in the next couple of years. Gailey is not only putting the team in better positions to win but he is showing that to succeed in the NFL you have to change and you have to adapt to every situation that comes your way.
Herm’s philosophy is tired and old fashioned. He just wants to tell people what they’re going to do and beat them physically. That’s cool if you can do it, but why not use your head too? There’s nothing wrong with trying to outsmart the opponent a little. When Herm rips on the use of diversions, motion, etc, it just reminds me how close-minded and one dimensional his philosophy is.
Jay A.
I shed a tear when I read that!! That was a perfect analogy for Herm!! PERFECT!
Big ups to Chan. He’s doing a great job with what he has. Dealing with 3 different quarterbacks and 3 different guys at running back, but still finding a way to get it done on offense. Great job. Keep up the good work. Big ups to Herm as well he brought this guy in here. Alot of people question the hire but big ups to Herm in bring in a guy that would adapt his system to the players versus the players having to adapt to the system.
NOw i will say if this defense doesn’t start playing better football. Herm just might need to start looking at a new defensive coord.
And Nathan of brainfertilizer fame take all of that foolishiness to the KC Star blogs i’m going to tell u like i’ve been telling all those people. No one is making u a Chiefs fan if you don’t like the direction of the team then go be Broncos, Chargers, Raiders,or whoever fan. I don’t care. Just stay off of here with foolish comments that has no logic to them jus a bunch of pent up emotion. So you ain’t got to be a Chiefs fan jus go cheer for some other team.
Now as for Herm go. Herm just shares the same philosphy as Marty and Bill Cowher does. Which is a tough hard nose defense and running the football to control the clock. Alot of non football fans like to credit those guys for that but dis credit Herm for that. But i give my head coach Herm his due he’s learning like Marty learned in his career in San Diego that its ok to be a litte versatile. Keep the defense off guard by mixing it up a little bit. Fans have to realize Herm doesn’t call the play Chan does. Its his offense he decides how things are going to go. Thats why he hired a guy like that some older guy that he knew thats been around awhile that he can trust to put the offense in the best situation to score points.
I’m not going to do like most people and bash Herm. The guy is just maturing as a head coach. Like any of you on your job. You not going to do everything right all the time. The point is though as you continue on a job for awhile you start to learn from your mistakes. Thats what our head coach has done. He’s learning its ok to open up the offense and throw the football a little bit. But also people have to remember during last yr the o-line was so bad that our quarterback literally didn’t have time to throw the football either. But like I said give the guy time to put his players and his coaches in place and within the next yr or two we will be competing for an AFC West title.
I see the rah rah guys have returned in mass, welcome back.
1. LJ may return to the team or not. Either way he does not block to protect the QB. That is a statement of fact.
2. Herm lovers - should he be a head coach to learn his trade, I say no when it is the NFL and my season tickets. He coackes like Marty, do not care, the NFL and me are about scoring and winning games, lots of scoring. He, according to carl and whoever, is supposedly a defensive minded coach, ok, but he only seems to know about CB play. HIS DEF LINE HIGH DRAFT PICKS are NOT IMPROVING as the season progresses. This may correct itself in a year or two. Then I look at Atlanta and Miami and sort of wish we had a real head coach or GM.
http://www.chiefswarpath.com/news/2008/11/06/game-reaction-hermcuffs-exposed/
The true correlation to the sudden offensive success lies with the complete change of offensive philosophy. More to the point, we completely abandoned Herm’s offensive philosophy, or the so-called “Hermcuffs” for the most part of the last two games. Almost everything this team did represented the antithesis of Herm’s offensive philosophy. Passing when you don’t “have” to, trick plays, passing on first down, keeping the opponent’s defense guessing, running diversions, aggressive play calling, actively trying to win, option plays, etc. All of these things are not in the book of Herm.
Sure, there is undoubtedly some improvement being had by some of our young players and our newly formed offensive line. And yes, the +6 turnover ratio in the last two games sure helps an offense and we can’t count on that to happen every game. But these last two weeks have proven with little doubt that it was Herm’s failed philosophy, above all else, that was holding this offense back. It has proven that when you keep your opponent guessing, all aspects of your offense instantly get better as the defense has to be prepared for anything. Herm’s history shows that the more his teams struggled the more conservative he got, which in turn made the team perform even worse due to predictability. After eight years of failed philosophy, did Herm finally learn something? I doubt it. And even if he did, I think eight years is far too slow of a learning curve for a head coach.
So what caused Herm to suddenly open up the offense (or allow Chan to do so)? Most likely, it’s out of desperation. He really had no other options. Nothing else was working. This is a last ditch effort to save his job. However, it may actually provide the opposite: by proving his own philosophy is fundamentally flawed, outdated, and holds the team back, he is showing that he must be replaced. Throw in the uncontested fact that he’s a terrible game-day coach who can’t manage the clock or make proper in-game adjustments, and his firing is a slam-dunk. But then again, I’m not the owner.
Good interview Bob. I have always thought Chan was a good coordinator and his answers show that he is not a guy who tries to make his “system” work. Good for him since he has had a revolving door of players on offense.
Herm calling plays (or vetoing)? I doubt it, but have no real idea (like everyone else). Somebody compared his control to the time with Solari, but that is apples and oranges. Solari had never been a coordinator before. I would expect a heavy hand with him. Chan is a proven coordinator and I suspect Herm doesn’t get that involved with the offense. I don’t think Gailey would be here if he did.
I vote Gailey for Head Coach 09 and on!!! He was a head coach at Georgia Tech so he knows how to work with young guys which would be perfect for the Chiefs right now. They are going young, he has experience with young guys, is already part of the Chiefs organization so the transition would be relatively easy, and he also has a philosophy that goes along with the way that the NFL is today. It is no longer the physical game that it was in herm’s days but a finesse league that requires creativity and smarts.
i agree with most of u guys on what you all are saying about Herm opening up the offense. But lets not go crazy here Herm can coach. The have the 3rd most active playoff appearances in the league. So the guy knows how to coach. Now I may also have to say about herm’s clock management adn in game adjustment that will come with maturity as a head coach. Guys you all have to remember no one’s perfect the guy is still a fairly young head coach he’ll get better as a head coach like his players will continue to get better.
But give the guy credit he’s made it to the playoffs 4 out 8yrs as a head coach so for him to be a young head coach thats not bad at all. I see most people don’t mine listing Herm weakness, but don’t like to bring up his strengths. The guy knows the game, he great evaluator of talent, a great leader, and obviously with talented players and a solid team he knows how to win. I think his reputation has took a hit because he’s the one catching the blame for how bad this team really was.
Lets bag up a minute here. He wasn’t the head coach that built this bad defense it was in place when he got here. The aging offense was in place when he got here. Fact is thats why Vermeil left. He knew this team needed major overhauling and he wasn’t going to go through the bad seasons of developing young players so he hit the door. This team was a mess when Herm got here. And everyone around the league from Bellichick to Dungy commended Herm for taking on such a touch challenge.
The reality Vermeil and Peterson did a horrible job at drafting players, signing free agents that could actually contribute, and building a good defense. They should get more of the blame than Herm. You all keep acting like this team was so full of talent when he got here. This team was garbage. The offense was old and the defense was the worst in the league. Now Herm did an ok job patching it up with veterans like Law and Surtain but it needed major overhauling as well.
And as for Herm philosphy. I like to run the ball that is what win championships. If the old Vermeil style of offense was so great then why didn’t the Patriots beat the Giants last year. That is the kind offense that wins in the playoffs. ITs the reason the Steelers won with Cowher, and its the reason Giants won last yr. When you can physically wear a team out by running the football it chews up clock and keeps an explosive offense off the field. I’m not saying u don’t have to have balance, but you just can’t throw it every play and you can’t run it every play either. My thing is I think Herm has learned u need a balance attack. You need to be able to pass the ball some to establish a strong lead and pound it late in games to put a team away.
So don’t think passing all the time is a good thing. Because it only works when u have balance running the football. I always say that is what hurt the Rams in the second Super Bowl against the Patriots. They passed way to much with Mike Martz and took Faulk out of the offense when he was having such a good game. The key is you have to have balance. And that is what Herm and Gailey are striving for on offense and they did a good job of that Sunday. Damn defense just couldn’t get off the field on third downs.
holy crap Ed! You start with,”i agree with most of u guys on what you all are saying about Herm”, and then go and disagree about everything!
1. Herm has taken ‘other coaches teams’ to the playoffs, but has never gotten far. He took a Vermiel offense to the playoffs in 2006 with his horrible RRPP, and 400+ carries of LJ.
2. Statistically, the defense on the field now (in 2008) is worse than the defense of 2003, and by far worse than the defense Herm inherited in 2006…we just hope with the youth it will get better.
3. The 1-16 Chiefs found a new record-setting way to lose, again. You would think that there would come a point when “rebuilding” doesn’t matter. Any other team would fire a coach who goes 1-16 in his 3rd year with the team. Cam Cameron was fired after going 1-15 in his “first” first year. I don’t know what is going on behind the doors at Bizarrohead Stadium, but the team is playing better in spite of Herm, not because of him.
4. Among all the ‘records’ Herm has set as a Chief, here is the most recent: The largest comeback in Tampa Bay Buccaneers history, and the biggest blown lead in Kansas City Chiefs history, 21 points.
5. Having a legitimate passing game is what has recently made our running game succesful.
I do agree with the opening up of the offense i just think u need to have balance. That is what all the good teams in this league have. BALANCE. The ability to run or past. And lets not forget in 2006 it was Herm who brought in veterans on defense to improve the defense not Vermeil. The fact is this the team he took over in 2006 was an old washed up team on its last leg that he squeezed blood out of a turnip and got to the playoffs. And lets not forget with a second string quarterback. And remember the only reason Larry ran 400 plus times cause the line passing blocking became so bad it almost got Trent Green killed out there. Concussion
I will say this about head coaches. Before u can judge how well a coach is allow him time to get some talent. Truth is no coach and i mean no coach could have won with that 2007 roster. Keep in mind Peterson wasnt ready to rebuild in 2007. HE didn’t even want Herm using the word rebuild. U do a lot of research findthedr so i know u know that. It wasnt until after such a horrible 4 and 12 season that Peterson conceded to rebuilding this team and going younger.
Now as for my point about head coach. I see coaches like i see quarterbacks. I’m not going to judge Herm fairly until he gets more talent and experience talent on the field thats why i say lets give him to at least 2010 to judge him fairly as a head coach. The guy has proven when he has a little talent that not only can he get a team to the playoffs he can win in the playoffs.
Same with quarterbacks. I hate to see fans bash quarterbacks when they have garbage receivers, bad o-line, and no running game. I always say put some talent around the guy and then lets see how he does. Thats all i’m asking my fellow Chiefs fans to do. Allow Herm to fill in the wholes he has on defense and offense. Then make a fair judgment on him as a head coach. Don’t allow him to take over a garbage roster and then say he’s suck as a head coach. How about the players on the field suck as player. Because i truly believe if this was anybody else coaching this team you all would be giving them the benefit of the doubt.
And that goes back to my opinions about fans litsening to much to the media. Allowing the media to dictate how they feel or think about a coach, a quarterback or even a team. Look at the situation for yourself not what u read in the paper or see on ESPN. Fact is Herm took over a bad situation, but it was clouded by the team past success and fans just couldn’t see it coming. I could. I knew when i looked at the Chiefs 2006 2007 roster I said to myself” man we old team and we haven’t drafted enough young guys in the past 2005,2004, etc season to be competitive in the future.” And boy was I right. This team headed for one of the worse times I’ve seen in years.
And i don’t blame Herm for that. He’s just the guy trying to clean up the mess Peterson and Vermeil left this team in. Which was a quick fix it roster that aged so fast it could make your head spin. Now Herm is building something that could last and sustain over time and all I’m asking fellow Chiefs fans to do is judge him then once that task is completed by the start of the 2010 season.
Ok, its called adaptation. We have the last ranked rushing defense. That is NeveR acceptable. No fire in players? I would be benching trading and cutting players, and if that didn”t work I would step down. FAILURE 1 and 7 is not an option, sorry.
Ed,
you make it seem as if KC is Herm’s first head coaching stint. He did coach the Jets and had the same oppurtunities there that he had here. He left the Jets a team in disaray and devoid of talent. Just like with KC, he took another coaches team to the playoffs and quickly lost.