Tuesday Morning Cup O’Chiefs
Fans love to talk about teams losing games at the end of a disasterous season to improve their draft positions.
In over 30 years of hanging around the National Football League, I’ve never met a coach, player or administrator who ever felt that way. The NFL is a high-performance business in the world of sports and winning is the only salve that cures any ills. No matter the record, no matter the week of the season, victory was the goal.
Why else would a team like the Raiders rise up on a November Sunday, go on the road dominate a team like the Denver Broncos? Maybe it mattered to Al Davis that he could stick one in Mike Shanahan, but the guys on the field and the coaches just wanted to win. They wanted to beat a division rival and if that knocked their own franchise down on the selection list a few pegs, then so be it.
But I know fans need to entertain themselves, especially when a season is as bad as the one they are watching with the Chiefs. It’s hard to find much redeeming value in 1-19 over the last 20 games other than helping draft position and hopefully bringing in more talented players.
Right now, the Chiefs sit at No. 2 on the draft board, just behind the winless Detroit Lions. Just behind the Chiefs is Cincinnati, by virtue of their tie with Philadelphia. Both St. Louis and Seattle are 2-9, while San Francisco and the Raiders are now 3-8.
Only once in the franchise’s history have the Texans-Chiefs had the first selection in the draft. That came in the 1963 AFL Draft, thanks to a trade with Oakland that brought the Raiders first-round choice for QB Cotton Davidson. That turned out to be the No. 1 pick when the Raiders finished 1-13. At the time of the draft in late 1962, the team was still in Dallas and selected Grambling DT Buck Buchanan (above).
Four times the Chiefs owned the second pick in the draft. In the 1964 AFL Draft, they selected QB Pete Beathard at No. 2. The other three times, the team grabbed a defensive end: 1978 Art Still, 1979 Mike Bell and 1988 Neil Smith.
Notice a trend there? Five times the Chiefs have had pick No. 1 or No. 2 and four times they have selected a defensive lineman, and only once did they take a quarterback. That’s just some food for thought for those already lining up behind QBs and pass rushers for that early selection.
So what are the Chiefs chances of staying in the second, or even advancing to the first spot? There’s only one way to judge at this point and that’s the schedule ahead. Here’s who the seven contending teams play over the last five weeks and the combined record of those remaining opponents:
0-11/Detroit - Tennessee, Minnesota, at Indianapolis, New Orleans and at Green Bay. 34-21.
1-10/Chiefs - at Oakland, at Denver, San Diego, Miami and at Cincinnati. 20-34-1.
1-9-1/Cincinnati - Baltimore, at Indianapolis, Washington, at Cleveland and Kansas City. 26-29.
2-9/St. Louis – Miami, at Arizona, Seattle, San Francisco and at Atlanta. 25-30.
2-9/Seattle – at Dallas, New England, at St. Louis, New York Jets and at Arizona. 31-24.
3-8/San Francisco – at Buffalo, New York Jets, at Miami, at St. Louis and Washington. 29-26.
3-8/Oakland – Kansas City, at San Diego, New England, Houston and at Tampa Bay. 24-31.
It’s tough to see how the Lions are going to win a game with five opponents that are still fighting for spots in the playoffs. The Chiefs have two games against teams out of contention (Oakland and Cincinnati) and another with one that is barely hanging on (San Diego).
FROM THE PAGES OF CHIEFS HISTORY
On November 25, 1973 the Chiefs lost to the Denver Broncos 14-10 at Mile High Stadium. Despite a strong defensive effort, the Chiefs had trouble making anything go on offense in losing to Denver. The Chiefs only score came on a late fourth quarter pass from QB Mike Livingston to WR Otis Taylor of seven yards. Defensively, the Chiefs had problems handling Denver WR Haven Moses, who caught five passes for 108 yards and two touchdowns. S Mike Sensibaugh had an interception for the Kansas City defense, but they had just one sack. Denver meanwhile sacked Livingston five times, including two each from DT Pete Duranko and DE Paul Smith.
On November 25, 1990, the Chiefs beat the Raiders 27-24 at the Los Angeles Coliseum. The Chiefs defense struggled in this game, but they had great pass rush pressure on Los Angeles QBs Jay Schroeder and Vince Evans, taking them down five times as LBs Louis Cooper, Dino Hackett, Percy Snow and Chris Martin and DT Dan Saleaumua each had a sack. QB Steve DeBerg was especially efficient, hitting 12 of 21 passes for just 149 yards, but three TDs: 19 yards to WR Emile Harry and a pair of 11-yard scores to FB Bill Jones.
SAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO …
Donovan McNabb will be celebrating something on Tuesday, birthday No. 32 for the Eagles quarterback.
It’s also the birthday shared by QB Bernie Kosar who is 45 years old today and WR Cris Carter, who is celebrating 43 years on this mortal ground.
It was on this day in 1933 that Hall of Fame RB Lenny Moore was born in Reading, Pennsylvania.
OPPONENT NEXT/OAKLAND RAIDERS
It was raining game balls – fourteen in all – with the Raiders on Monday, the result of a 31-10 win over the Denver Broncos to snap a four-game losing streak.
AROUND THE LEAGUE
Andy Reid is sticking with Donovan McNabb as his starting quarterback when the Eagles host Arizona on Thanksgiving night.
The Cowboys say they’ve sold 85 percent of the available seats at their new JerryWorld Dome in Arlington that will come on line next season.
AROUND THE REST OF THE AFC WEST
The Broncos might be 6-5 and wildly inconsistent, but thanks to a free fall by the San Diego Chargers, it hardly matters.
The timeout was still being talked about Monday, as clock management was added to the list of gripes about Chargers coach Norv Turner.
Anyone looking at the Chief’s first day (Counting rounds 1-3 in spite of the new system)choices during the Carl Peterson regime, or going from 1990-2005,(Jury is still out on 2006-08), you’ll find far more misses than hits. Everyone, every team has a few clunkers. I get that.
As we know, the Chiefs have never drafted and developed a competent NFL QB in that time. Lately, their drafting acumen for defensive players is highly suspect as well.
If something isn’t working, wouldn’t you look at your strategy and methodology? Wouldn’t you change the way you evaluate your draft choices? Most people would unless they had this enormous ego that wouldn’t allow these questions to surface because surely, Carl Peterson is the omnipotent, all-knowing one who cannot be questioned?
Bottom line: It’s WAY past time to clean out the barn and infuse the organization with new blood, energy and competence. Putting it off or failing to do it and what is left?
The KC Lions.
The top picks (1-5) in the draft rarely seam to turnout better than the next 10 guys (6-15). The difference is that a team gets stuck with a huge salary for 1-5 players.
I would much prefer that the Chiefs finish 6-10 and draft #6-10. That’s where the problem arises. Herm Edwards isn’t capable of leading a team to 5 consecutive victories. Never done it. Never will.
Just our luck to be in the top 2-3 picks and not see a can’t miss prospect coming out that is worthy of the salary slot. Makes it hard to trade down as well. Lot of time between now and the draft so the needs and availability of players will change a lot during that time. Should be interesting though. Never thought we would be battling the Lions for a draft slot. Not much fun.
what I would like to see is this…
See what the free agent pool for Linebackers and Defensive Ends are…
Which ever has the best talent…sign the top one. So, say we can sign Julius Peppers…then we draft a middle linebacker at the top of the draft. Or vice versa if we sign a top linebacker, maybe we draft Michael Johnson…
But those 2 areas are by far the weakest…
I am not too worried about the offense anymore…I like our QB, RB, WR,TE and our offensive line is getting better as well. Albert is the future LT for this team…so, no need to draft an offensive lineman in the first round at all…
I think Tyler and Dorsey will develop…
I don’t like Derrick Johnson…it is time he shows up…
My game plan for the offseason would be this…
Key Free Agents (Still Young too)
LB-Jonathan Vilma (26)
DE-Julius Peppers (28)
DT-Albert Haynesworth (27)
Assuming they don’t get franchised… Here would be my top 2 plans…
Plan 1: I figured Peppers and Haynesworth will get franchised and/or be way too expensive…so here is my realistic way of fixing the chiefs…
Sign: Jonathan Vilma MLB
Sign: Karlos Dansby OLB
Draft: Brian Orakpo or Michael Johnson (whoever grades out better)
I personally like Johnson better. Better size and looks more like a DE…Orakpo kind of looks better suited for a 3-4….We HAVE to sign some linebackers of value. Vilma is a MLB and Dansby is an OLB…These 2 would make Derrick Johnson better…. After the first round Draft the best available…
OL, LB, Safety, DE, DT, QB
If Thigpen falls apart things change, but he looks like Romo did when he took over for Bledsoe…so, I think he’s our guy.
Look at this defense…
DE-Johnson
DT-Tyler
DT-Dorsey
DE-Hali
OLB-Johnson
MLB-Vilma
OLB-Dansby
CB-Flowers
CB-Carr
FS-Morgan
SS-Page
I don’t think the Cardinals or Saints will franchise Vilma or dansby…so they could really be had. They are both still very young and the chiefs have plenty of money.
The offense has been scoring about an average of 26 points a week the past 5 games, and they are all VERY young…so we are set there…
throw some money at a nice group of linebackers…draft some DE’s and OL and I think we are on our way.
That is my plan..
At least you have a plan. I truly doubt the chiefs have developed as good as your.
A constant worry is the chiefs had the best draft in their immediate history, yet they are short as many as 10 QUALITY starters. How many years will this take. On your free agent signings there are 31 other teams who might have an interest in those players and would those guys want to play for one of the worst teams or want a ring. Lastly the chiefs chose to ignor free agents last year and saved 30+ million which they will probably use to pay their portion of the remodelling. 30 million in 2009 will help clarks bottom line
Now let’s look at this through a positive spin – when the Chiefs had the overall #1 pick in 1963 they picked a DT and he became a HOF’r and they Champions in 1966 and 1969.
When they had the #2 pick and chose a QB in 1964 he busted or journeymaned his way through career, at best. They became Champions (as with example 1 above) in 1966 & 1969, but in the first case the QB rode pine and in the second he was long gone.
In 1978 and 1979 the Chiefs chose DE’s twice, and twice they went nowhere – the ‘79 player having a bit more of an impact his career than the former, but both retiring with bumps/bruises but no more. They’re still waiting with the rest us ‘gluttons’ for punishment.
Conclusion(s)? A few.
- The Chiefs should NOT draft a DE any, for that obviously leads nowhere fast…and we’ve already been there nee here, and having taken squat said find that ‘it is not’ so good.
- The Chiefs – ‘if’ they draft a QB will win a Championship and e’en two within the next five years thereaft – but the QB we draft will have nothing to do with the first, nor e’en be here atall for the second.
- Chiefs draft a DT? They’ll assure themselves of not one but two Championships within the next six years (it’d also be a good idea to pass on anyone named Ryan, just to be safe. Too – you can never invest in enough DTs as it were, for one of them might become another #58.)
So, Chiefs should draft a DT to play or a QB to sit. Bull? Sitting? HOW! Perhaps, and yet those who do not understand history are but doomed to repeat it…which would not be such a bad thing as such, this case…if only it was once again 1963…or 1964, e’en.
this offense looks pretty set….
QB-Thigpen
RB-Johnson/Charles/Smith
FB-Cox
WR-Bowe
WR-Bradley
WR-Franklin
TE-Gonzales/Cottam/Merritt
LT-Albert
LG-Waters
C -Niswanger
RG-Jones
RT-Mcintosh
So, what do we need to replace? Mcintosh, Jones and what else? We have Herb Taylor and Barry Richardson, so they may be able to replace them…Having Thigpen and Bradley emerge fixes A TON for us…
I don’t know, I guess my point is this…the only major weakness I see is at right tackle and right guard…and we have young guys that could emerge there in Richardson and Taylor….
So, this offseason needs to be ALL about drafting MORE defense and signing some young defensvie players…
if we don’t take a DE, then what do we spend that high of a pick on with that much money?
The highest paid positions are QB,DE and LT…
We are in a place to have to pay a lot for a position that is the top 5 picks, right? We have Albert and Thigpen, right? We traded Allen…
If you say no to a DE…then what do we draft? ANOTHER DT? Who sits, then? A QB? What about Thigpen if he keeps up his 30 td pace over a 16 season? You don’t want to draft an Offensive guard that high, or a safety. The linebackers out there in the draft are not top 5 material…
So, if not DE, then what do we draft? This is assuming Thigpen keeps playing well…if he blows up and sucks it up, then it is a no brainer, we take a QB…but he looks legit to me…
So…tell me Chief fans…Lets say Thigpen and Albert continue to impress the rest of the year…what position AND who do you draft?
Drew I see it a bit different, not necessarily correctly. WR is a ?, one of the three may be dominate but not all three. C is a definite need Nus is to tall and is not a long term solution. Tony G may well be gone next year, if not, then he will be gone shortly from age or injury. RG and RT, the backup are not any good. TE Merrit, what has he done to even get on a list.
Just commenting on your list, sorry
Drew
We feel your excitement nee sense of costiveness come over this fandom ours. Now, Rin is sure the Chiefs will pull something amazing and unforseen out of their…hat, come draft time.
(Cue Andy Williams: “It’s the most wonderful time of the year!”)
Yeah…I think we could use another wideout…but gaining Bradley seems to have fixed a major whole…
I agree with a new Center, sure…I’m just not noticing any major wholes in the offense that would need to be adressed in the top 2 rounds…
I guess you could take Crabtree, but Bradley is playing so well…
It just seems like the offense has really come together and by the end of the year, it looks like if we can fix the defense…then you have to think this team could make a Giants type of turn around…
At least at the beginning of the year, we had a horrific offense and bad defense…
now we just have a horrific defense…you give this current team the ravens Defense and we win this division hands down and win 10 games…
okay people, you want ANOTHER DE drafted by herm? Are you guys forgetting that we used a first and a second for the two DE’s we have right now? Obviously drafting defensive linemen isn’t a strong suit for this team. I personally don’t want them to draft a DE in the first three rounds. I have no desire to see another bust on the defensive line.
If we have a top 2 pick (trade if possible) if not then I would suggest taking Crabtree.
Center is a sure NEED.
Wouldn’t want to choose a HB in first 3 rds but would look at that position, given LJ’s history/age/Wear&Tear, Tight End is a question, Doubt Tony G will be here (Lord Please make me wrong)
One way or the other we have to get a pass rusher and a Rock solid MLB and another OSLB.
Unless some one of real great talent comes out, trading down in the first round is not going to be an option, no one will want the pick. I think we need to draft the best plyer available, if it happens to be a WR, then play him in a rotation with Bowe and Bradley. More three WR sets in the spread offense! I would like to see us sign Vilma at MLB and then sign or trade for a good proven OLB and DE. I also think we need help on the OL at RT and RG. These should be later round picks, as the first round is too high for those two positions.
Herman’s Sermon just over. He says the defense may take 3 or more years to come together. Ask about SDST job said he is already coaching a college job. Folks, who would put up with a NFL coach who is willing and endorsed to lose games for over 4 years in a row. If he is coaching a college team it is because he put this bunch of “college kids” on the field in the NFL.
He also said clark endorses what the team is doing and talk together regularily. If clark is willing to play without fans it is ok with me.
Today, not yet having touched e’en face December, the ‘drafting’ of a new Head Coach the KC Chiefs is reaching (greater) ridiculous proportion(s).
The ringleader, nee clown? (No, not Rin… I’m a Herm believer: tall, dark, handsome & too always quite certain the corners have been addressed.)
Just now venue radio, heard a knave- sorry, some Kev named Kietzman who, with much hope his heart & fingers crossed too, pleading for Herm Edwards to take the Head Coaching position at San Diego State. (Paraphrasing)- “Herm needs to do this – he’d be perfect.”
Yes? For whom?
Kev – “Herm’s answer to the reporter’s question of whether he was interested was rehearsed- too rehearsed” (Coach Herm Edwards having said ‘I’m already coaching a college team.’) Translation: No, sorry Kev et al, Herm’s staying in KC.
The sound of calculated tantrum impinged upon the airwaves, Kev’s denial the status quo maintaining also being ably massaged by/echoed by that second his command some clinker, Clinkscale is it?
Gesundheit. Those dogs ain’t gonna hunt.
Like a man clinging to shipwreck, do some imagine rescue when the life preserver is ballast already being inplemented- eyes theirs not wanting to see.
Alas, there are no need boogeymen, plots not made privy to, nor assassins any lying in wait ’round every corner, no grassy knoll too…only patience in short supply.
It’s but year one Herm’s rebuild: wait till you see Act II! And III! And . . .
What fun!
I guess I’m alone, but, I would like to see a great middle LB in red. If a good DE could be picked up as a FA, and, the Chiefs end up with picks #3-6, I would be happy with Laurenitis or Magula(I’m sure I misspelled both names, sorry). If they end up with picks #1 or #2 this would probably be considered a reach, but, A run-stuffer that would also free up DJ sounds good to me. From there I would go best available right down the line with an eye for speed.
does that rin tin tin guy think he’s writing some artsy sports column or something in the comments section? Bob is NOT going to hire you, just stop, it’s lame. Especially the christmas crap.
Another hopeful imagines himself Rin’s Manager…
the line forms to the right.
Oh STM thy lovely green eyes thine, quit tuggin on my cape, release mine ankle & be on your *** way.
Here, allow Rin present you this Christmas gift yours:
“The Serenity Prayer” (the short version because… well, you came up said, per the usual.)
‘God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.’
There be exits from this blog leaving 24 hours a day…feel free to avail self said if you but cannot control your malice nee ‘invidia’.
Amen.
Rin…dying for Herm’s sins as it were
heh heh heh
I just don’t read his posts…I see rin, and I just skip to the next post…haha
Gump I like the idea of a LB but the DL is so bad any LB would be road kill until the DL is fixed.
That said I do not know how many draft picks can be wasted on the DL.
tm,
While I agree with you about the DL, my hope is that a FA DE would supply some much needed pressure while one more year has to help Tank and Dorsey live up some of thier potentiall.
Damnit…There I go again with that “Hope” thing. Guess I’ll never learn.
Rin is ‘almost’ unspeakably wounded…alas, as this post attests, not sufficiently, the arrow Rin having deflected, as the errant archer too who lobbed it…ad nauseam shall ad infinitum whilst!
heh heh heh
“my hope is that a FA DE would supply some much needed pressure”
- YES! The Chiefs have NOT been throwing enough fade patterns, agreed!
“There I go again with that “Hope”Âť thing.”
- HOPE: ‘highly o pined (for) extrication’ (nee emancipation) from this defense ours…
lol rin, you have twisted sense of humor. mayhap thou dropst acid thrice times too many in the ’60s?
Well Rin we are waitng with breathless antici……pation for your answer! If we pick in the first 3-4 it will be hard to trade down. Which happens to be my preference. RDE or MLB may be the pick there, BUT, do any of the MLB’s or RDE’s warrant that high a pick? OL help another DT and possibly a WR or CB should also be addressed. QB is still a thin position also.
How about the chiefs draft a “can’t miss” at any position except for RB, P, K, or S? Do not really care who because herm expects several more years to rebuild and get the players on the same level.
Larry (a known accomplice of Moe & Curly Joe)
Any ‘acid’ Rin dropped back in the 60’s NEVER made it to the floor…it never had a chance
dklogue1
- yeah, easy for you to say…
“Well”
- well…
“Rin”
- yes, what is it now?
“we are waitng with breathless antici……pation for your answer!”
- and the question, my faithful devotee?
“If we pick”
- you may get a nosebleed…
“in the first 3-4″
- perhaps, maybe sooner – e’en within half a minute…
“it will be hard”
- or squishy, depending…
“to”
- yes…
“trade down.’
- no, in this economy there is really no great market for the stuff at the moment…
“Which happens to be my preference.”
- whatever your picker- er, broker suggests…
“RDE or MLB may be the pick there, BUT, do any of the MLB’s or RDE’s warrant that high a pick?”
- you think I have any idea? (Cue Tony Bennett: “If I (Rin) ruled the world…”
If Rin had to guess now some five months afore the draft, would say the likelihood would be an offensive lineman, whether the Chiefs trade down or not (I think they ‘might’.) OT or even a C/not an OG. I don’t see them drafting another young Defensive lineman, DE or DT, but rather signing a free agent or even trading for a DE; they’ll likely draft one or more d-lineman too. MLB is a possibility but not at pick #5…if KC trades down, a LB in the 10-15 range is a possibility.
“OL help”
- they cannot help you…canst not help e’en themselves – why we must draft one or more.
“another DT and possibly a WR or CB should also be addressed. QB is still a thin position also.”
- no, Thigpen is in the 215-220 lb. range, Gray in the 250+ arena nee area; only Brodie’s 62206 zip code is errant (yup, Brodie is 6′2 & weighs 206 alright…just like Jorge Orta was safe at 1st base back in 1985.)