Rookies Pay For Paranoia … Thursday Cup O’Chiefs

So the two men that were supposed to be working together to help return the Chiefs to prominence in the NFL didn’t get along. Stuff like that happens in all sorts of businesses. They parted ways and the Chiefs have moved on.

Oh, if it were only that easy.

The ramifications from the dysfunctional relationship that grew between GM Scott Pioli and former head coach Todd Haley can be seen in the autopsy of the 2011 Chiefs season. Pioli’s behind the scenes campaign against his head coach not only kept both men from being on the same page; at the end they weren’t even working off the same book.

Wonder why Tyler Palko was the starting quarterback after Matt Cassel was lost for the season? What choice did Haley have? Ricky Stanzi was even less prepared for the role than Palko, but in some situations a head coach would have put the rookie on the field. But Haley couldn’t afford to do that. He knew Pioli along with team chairman Clark Hunt were looking for any reason to fire him. He thought Palko presented a better opportunity to win than Stanzi.

When Kyle Orton arrived, the first week he was totally unprepared for stepping into the Chiefs offense. The second week, they planned to use Orton, but then he dislocated his finger on his first play on the field, knocking him out of the rest of that game and the next one after that.

Haley wasn’t trying to prove anything by using Palko other than win as many games as possible.

Another casualty of the poor relationship between GM and head coach was the amount of playing time the team’s rookies received over the season. A head coach comfortable in his situation and not worried about who might be trying to sabotage his position, would likely have gotten more playing time for his rookie players. As I wrote on Wednesday, the Chiefs got just 75 games and 14 starts from their rookies in 2011, less than the contribution in the previous two years.

The fact is the Chiefs had one of the smallest rookie contributions among the league’s 32 teams this past season. For a team that finished with a 7-9 record, with the injuries it suffered and with a starting lineup that could hardly be considered established, the rookies wearing red and gold should have played more.

In games played and games started by rookies, they ranked in the bottom fourth of the league:

Fewest Rookie Games Played     Fewest Rookie Starts

 #

 Team

Games Played

 

 #

 Team

Games Started

32.

Detroit

51

 

32.

Green Bay

5

31.

St. Louis

58

 

31.

San Francisco

8

30.

Atlanta

61

 

30.

Detroit

9

29.

Cincinnati

64

 

t-27.

St. Louis

12

28.

New Orleans

66

 

t-27.

Atlanta

12

27.

New England

70

 

t-27.

Chicago

12

t-25.

Chiefs

75

 

26.

N.Y. Giants

13

t-25.

New York Jets

75

 

25.

Chiefs

14

Look at the teams involved in the fewest games played and fewest starts from rookies and it’s filled with teams that made the playoffs. In all there are a dozen teams listed and eight are teams that made the playoffs. The four that did not were the Chiefs, St. Louis, Chicago and the New York Jets.

With the type of season the Chiefs went through in 2011, draft choices like Stanzi, C/G Rodney Hudson, DE Allen Bailey, CB Jalil Brown and especially sixth-round NT Jerrell Powe should all have had many more opportunities than they saw in 2011. Granted all were hampered by the absence of an off-season program due to the owners’ lockout. But by mid-season, the rookies should have been contributing more. OLB Justin Houston did, and in some fashions so did WR Jonathan Baldwin.

But Haley wasn’t thinking about 2012; he was just trying to survive professionally in an impossible situation. Most coaches only know one way to do that, and that’s win as many games possible.

The casualties become the younger players. Guys like Hudson, Stanzi and Powe are basically starting from scratch in 2012, and they are starting from scratch at three key positions – offensive line, quarterback and nose tackle. Whether any of the three are capable enough to fill those voids remains to be seen. But if they had chance to play in 2011, there would be far more information available on their prospects for the coming season.

So yes, there were ramifications to the Pioli-Haley chasm, and the development of rookie players was just one of those areas hurt by the toxic atmosphere in the football operations.

Here are the contributions from rookies to each league team in games played and games started during the 2011 season. The numbers are only for rookies; it does not include first-year players. Only three teams finished the season without a rookie starter: Green Bay, the New York Giants and San Francisco. In all 50 rookies started more than eight games, including 20 first-round draft choices:

Team

Games

Starts

Rookie starters (more than 8 starts)
Arizona

87

35

CB Patrick Peterson; OLB Sam Acho
Atlanta

61

12

WR Julio Jones
Baltimore

99

17

WR Torrey Smith
Buffalo

114

44

NT Marcell Dareus; MLB Kelvin Sheppard
Carolina

104

52

QB Cam Newton, DT Terrell McClain
Chicago

93

12

S Chris Scott
Cincinnati

64

37

QB Andy Dalton; WR A.J. Green
Cleveland

152

69

LG Jason Pinkston; WR Greg Little; DE Jabaal Sheard;    DT Phil Taylor
Dallas

109

27

RT Tyron Smith
Denver

116

46

RT Orlando Franklin; OLB Von Miller; FS Quinton Carter
Detroit

51

9

WR Titus Young
Green Bay

109

5

None
Houston

108

32

OLB Brooks Reed; DE J.J. Watt
Indianapolis

87

20

LT Anthony Castonzo
Jacksonville

93

35

QB Blaine Gabbert; LG Will Rackley
Kansas City

75

14

OLB Justin Houston
Miami

77

30

C Mike Pouncey; FB Charles Clay
Minnesota

93

26

QB Chris Ponder; TE Kyle Rudolph
New England

70

20

RT Nate Solder
New Orleans

66

21

DE Cameron Jordan
N.Y. Giants

117

13

None
N.Y. Jets

75

20

DE Muhammad Wilkerson
Oakland

102

32

LG Stefen Wisniewski; WR Denarius Moore
Philadelphia

127

46

RG Danny Watkins; OLB Brian Rolle; C Jason Kelce
Pittsburgh

84

19

RT Marcus Gilbert
San Diego

98

29

DE Corey Liuget
San Francisco

94

8

None
Seattle

89

23

OLB K.J. Wright; LCB Richard Sherman
St. Louis

58

12

TE Lance Kendricks
Tampa Bay

96

46

RDE Adrian Clayborn; TE Luke Stocker; MLB Mason Foster
Tennessee

81

38

OLB Akeem Ayers; NT Jurrell Casey
Washington

109

46

LOLB Ryan Kerrigan; LG Maurice Hart

48 Responses to “Rookies Pay For Paranoia … Thursday Cup O’Chiefs”

  • January 19, 2012  - iwriter says:

    Hey Bob… is not Haley partially to blame for this? He comes in and immediately attacks some of our leaders in the club house…. And reports from Bill Mass who interviewed players and Coaches from Arizona all said they would not work with him. Also Mike Vrabel also said the same… he would never coach under Haley. Hey I am not saying there is not some truth in what you say but also Haley played favorites and I am sure that irritated people on our team. WHen Crennel was declared the new coach our team went crazy. They were not at all sad that Haley was fired. When Our new Coach came in after Haley was fired.. at the first opportunity he showed that he was going to be fair and not play favorites by calling out some of the veterins who were Haley’s favorites. I do not believe this is all Piolis fault here and maybe Haley did lots to deserve what he got. Are you good friends with Haley? Or is that you do not like the fact that Pioli fired someof your friendsin the front office? Either way this may influence your objectivity here? I have a sneaking suspiscion Haley caused alot of this himself by his own Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde personality. I enjoy this column and realize that much of this is also Pioli’s fault but Haley supposedly turned in his resignation and it was refused (or did I hear that wrong) There is not any doubt that our team went backwards at the beginning of this season and Haley really screwed us over with his decision to focus on conditioning to prevent injuries. First of all the injuries still came and second of all we were not prepared for the season and also Cassel went backword in his development. SO this season was a wipe out and and if they were really trying to sabatoge the season why did they bring in Orton who basically salvaged our season. SO your theory is not as tight as you would like..I like your attacks on Pioli but this one does not hold water… unless you know something we do not…


  • January 19, 2012  - Nathan says:

    This Pioli vs. Haley stuff is getting old. We’ve seen at least two other coaches in recent Chiefs history who didn’t like to play rookies: Vermeil and Schottenheimer.
    So what if Haley was paranoid. He’s gone. The point is moot.
    The most surprising thing to me is how it only took two, maybe two and a half seasons for the fans to forget that they’re getting exactly what they asked for when they were screaming for Carl Peterson’s head.
    I remember many fans saying Peterson was too soft on the coaching staff and that he didn’t hold anyone accountable for the mediocrity of the team. Now someone is holding people’s feet to the fire and everyone is whining about toxic environments and meanie GM’s.
    What a bunch of wimps we’ve become.


  • January 19, 2012  - Chuck says:

    One would have to ask himself WHY would Pioli hire Haley in the FIRST PLACE and one would have to ask himself WHY would Haley want to work for Pioli in the FIRST PLACE. Seems like a match made in hell. Even I asked myself WHY was a 28 year old well traveled unproven guy like Palko the only viable backup???? You know Stanzi would be like a deer in the headlights. That decision on the QB’s never did make any sense to alot of us.


  • January 19, 2012  - Petey says:

    Nathan, respectfully, I don’t think the point is moot….that was the whole point of the article in that rookies didn’t get played in large part because of the disfunction between Pioli and Haley.

    For everyone saying ‘let’s move on, let’s move on’, what else is there to really talk right now? We just turned over our HC, hired a new HC, are still looking for an OC…this stuff is all relevant. Look, whether or not Pioli was the main character in the problems or just an accomplice, it’s important to recogonize that if he doesn’t grow from this, our team will be in the same position in three years (a team just on the fringe of the playoffs every year with no legitimate chance of ever making the super bowl). I fully expect that once free agency starts AND the Chiefs actually start addressing some of the glaring holes then we can start putting some of the crap from 2011 behind us. However, if we roll thru free agency again and sign a couple of bit players that really have no impact, well then we know what Pioli truly is all about.


  • January 19, 2012  - Petey says:

    I would like to apologize for the post above…I don’t actually have season tickets, so I don’t know if I am allowed to comment on the team.

    With your permission, txchief, I hope it was okay and not too critical in your eyes.


  • January 19, 2012  - ED J says:

    I mean really we’re still talking about this. Seriously want be back to this site when 2012 season start. I mean come on. What proof do you have Bob that STanzi wasn’t prepared? I mean you can’t even find out who are canidates for OC let alone get info like that. If you put as much time into finding out things that’s really gone on behind Chiefs as you do making up articles to bash Pioli we would have a real inside reporter.

    Anyway rookies claims you make are just false. Their contribution had more to do with their position they played than like of talent. Hudson played behind Wiegman he wasnt going touch the field. Stanzi played behind Cassel and Palko. Lets not forget Palko was a guy Haley pushed for on this roster and trust me if he wanted another backup QB on team Pioli would have got him. Their’s a reason we took receiver in 1st round. We signed Breaston in offseason and we picked up Palko. Those were bones Pioli through Haley because he’s head coach. Stop making it sound like Haley time here was being sabbotoge by Pioli and he had no say so on some personel matter. Furthermore most people reported Orton didn’t play because that was Haley throwing middle finger Pioli to say you may bring in all players you want I decide who plays.

    Haley went crazy talking about playing 2 QB in the NFL. I mean this aint college. Then he throws Orton out there for a flea flicker which got the man hurt. I mean really we’re going to spend rest of summer bashing Pioli. Where you spent 20yrs defending Peterson when he not one but 1 playoff game in 14yr span. At end of the day Pioli/Crennel will prove he was better GM than Peterson and Crennel has already prove Gunther can’t tie his shoes. Gunther defense looks horrible in Detroit despite all good talent he has they couldn’t stop anyone down stretch despite stupid article you wrote about him. I for one hope ya boy Carl becomes apart of Dolphins so he can once again prove his incompetence there. The whole bash Pioi crap is getting old


  • January 19, 2012  - Doug says:

    Iwriter and Nathan;

    I think the point of the story is that when everyone in the organization isn’t in the same boat rowing the same direction, team development and especially rookies suffer, stunting the team’s growth and development. Instead of playing rookies more, Haley stuck with veterans and tried to save his job. Haley sacrificed rookie development to win short term, and Pioli (presumably with Hunt’s approval) sacrified the team’s short term and long term propects in the offseason by failing to address depth issues and jettisoning experienced talent either because of money or a failure to accurately assess the talent level of the team, and then compounded that error by undermining his hand-picked coach during the season. As Bob accurately points out, and statistically verifies, the net effect of the GM/Coach war is that team development suffered at the hands of the two guys most responsible to make sure that didn’t happen.


  • January 19, 2012  - Tim says:

    Good article Bob regarding the effect on player development from the internal strife. In my mind, this is on Haley mostly. When you have a coach that begins to compromise too much on the objectives of building, it leads to setbacks. I understand it, but it doesn’t make it any more right. These excuses they weren’t prepared (rookies) is bs as your analysis of other teams willing to play their guys demonstrates. Tell me Houston wasn’t VERY nervous when Yates had to take over – but he did.


  • January 19, 2012  - Tenand6 says:

    Another good column that makes Chiefs fans uncomfortable. The easy narrative— “Haley’s a crazed nut!”— doesn’t hold up when facts are presented.

    Frankly, I want to know as much as possible about Pioli and Hunt. Like others here, I invest a decent part of my life following the Chiefs– reading, attending summer camp, watching on TV or going to the games. I don’t want to be lied to. If Hunt is cheap, don’t tell me Pioli is waiting for someone to fit the “right 53.” If Orton doesn’t play due to a dislocated finger, don’t tell me “Haley went rogue on Pioli.” Some of this I can figure out on my own, much requires people who do this for a living and have the courage to deliver uncomfortable news.

    Bring on the info, Bob. Good or bad. The more the better. Ignorance isn’t bliss.


  • January 19, 2012  - brainsmasher says:

    At first I disliked Pioli and Haley with their Patriot’s Way and I can win more than 2 games with 22 guys off the street BS.

    I started to like Haley’s out of the box thinking; but thought that he needed to reign it in a little. I liked that Pioli was locking up the proven veterans to hometown friendly long term deals.

    The hiring of Haley may have come as a result of Clark hiring Pioli late and Pioli allowing Herm to dangle on the vine instead of firing him right away thereby wasting valuable time in the search for a new coach.

    I blame Pioli for hiring Haley–a guy who never played the game AT ANY LEVEL. Haley was supposed to be this offensive guru then he fired Chan Gailey–a proven offensive guru. There’s your sign.

    Pioli recognized the problem and brought in Charlie Weiss. The offense took off. Haley ran Weiss off. We all saw the results this season.

    Scott and Clark recognized their mistake and did whatever it took to correct the mistake. It is the mark of good leadership to admit you made a mistake and to correct your mistake as soon as possible.

    If what Bill Maas says is true about Haley changing game plans on Friday after the team has practiced another game plan all week is true then Haley should have been given his pink slip 4 or 5 games before it actually happened.

    What we know now is that by replacing Haley and allowing the coaches to do their job that the talent level–Tyler Palko notwithstanding–of the Chiefs was not as bad as we thought.

    Maybe Bill Muir is a competent offensive coordinator without a meddling dipwad sticking his finger in the soup.

    Bottom line: Haley was in over his head and he may be the first and last person to ever ascend to the level of head coach of any major league team who never played the sport at any level.

    The jury is still out on Pioli as a GM and Clark Hunt as an owner.


  • January 19, 2012  - johnfromfairfax says:

    Good post Bob and Doug,
    Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. It was obvious there was a lot going on behind the scenes that led to a season that could have been different and that cost Haley his job. He no doubt had a large role in the soap opera that led to his dismissal. The other central characters had a role in it and they’re still here. A post mortem is in order moving forward. If you just want to read fluff pieces this is probably not the place to get your sugar fix. Who’s at fault and the veracity of reports about anything are disputable but the article, whether you like the drum or not, is a good take on the dysfunction within our team between the people tasked with managing and developing the product and the results of that on the team this past season. If the point of this story weren’t the case we might be still playing this year instead of complaining about last year. Sometimes a contrarian like Rufus Dawes is necessary to point out the nuances of the obvious.


  • January 19, 2012  - el cid says:

    Nice posts, although I do not understand the new mode of attack everything Bob, but if it makes you feel important.

    But what if Haley wanted to save his job by winning….doubt it, he seemed to lose his mind as the last season went down the tubes.

    So what if….Pioli runs the draft with little imput from coaching (support what coaches would want 3 years of staying away from veteran free agents?). And the ’11 draft had some kids who were not close to being able to support the team for at least 2-3 years of developement?

    What if …..Pioli decided Haley was “not the right guy” and restricted his coaching style (I know nuts is not a style).

    What if…..Haley was the sane one and Pioli is so ego driven or had such low self esteem, he had to be in charge of every phase of everything (candy wrappers?).

    It is lots of fun to speculate but the Chiefs seem to suffer from it. One of you said we should wait to see what Pioli does this off season, I agree. With Crennel in place, Pioli needs to make a move that we can see is moving the team to success, well that will tell the tale, won’t it?


  • January 19, 2012  - Niblick says:

    Brainsmasher-Great post. I hadn’t heard what Bill Maas said about changing game plans on Friday. That is absolutely absurd, and if true, he should have been fired earlier. By the same token, Pioli hired him and he has to take the heat for hiring him. You are right on. The jury is still out on Pioli and Hunt.


  • January 19, 2012  - Petey says:

    EdJ….when was Orton supposed to play? Do you think it was day one, week one? Personally, I probably would have started him week two for the Chicago game and not waited until the second quarter, but Orton was on the VERGE of becoming our starter when he got hurt, nothing Haley could have done about that.


  • January 19, 2012  - Petey says:

    PS…Ed, you know what’s getting old? The constant bitching about the articles that you are CLICKING ON to read. You have a choice…I would hope you would exercise it if you constantly don’t like what’s being written.

    What’s the definition of insanity…….?


  • January 19, 2012  - Niblick says:

    Petey-I think EdJ has a perfect right to disagree with what’s written. It’s obviously a minority view, but he certainly has a right to his opinion, just as you do. Perhaps his tone is what irritates you more. I don’t know.


  • January 19, 2012  - el cid says:

    Every one has an opinion, some crazier than others, fine by me. That said, three EDJ, cy, and tx seem to only have an interest in attacking the writer, Bob. OK by me, but beggs the question of why? Think they will get Bob to retract something or say how brilliant the Chiefs were regarding an article? What is their agenda? Continued employment? Get their 15 sec of importance?

    But this is not the point of this site, is it?


  • January 19, 2012  - txchief says:

    I’m not sure why most seem to automatically assume that Pioli and Hunt have launched some type of conspiracy to spy on their employees and demoralize them. How do we know that it wasn’t Haley himself who was paranoid and imagined his office being bugged and his cellphone wiretapped? People love drama and paranoia can be contagious.

    I certainly hope that all the spying is not true. I would expect that Pioli and Hunt understand that a businesses are made stronger by comraderie, not intimidation. In many ways, I suspect that all of the cloak and dagger articles might arise because the Chiefs organization releases very little information to the public. Reports for the KC Star have to find something to write about. Conspiracies, disgruntled former employees and sources that have to remain anonymous makes for good newsprint.

    I did not mean to belittle anyone who wants to criticize the Chiefs but is not a season ticket holder. I meant to stress to others that if they make it known that they are a dissatisfied, paying customer, the Chiefs organization might be more likely to take notice.


  • January 19, 2012  - Justin says:

    I really like how the truth is painted in the direction of personal opinion:

    iwriter:

    “He comes in and immediately attacks some of our leaders in the club house…. And reports from Bill Mass who interviewed players and Coaches from Arizona all said they would not work with him. Also Mike Vrabel also said the same… he would never coach under Haley.”

    Guess the fact that many players (Warner, Fitzgerald, Breaston, Keyshawn) and coaches (Sparano and Whisenhunt) speak well of Haley and would play for him or even invited him back to coach in AZ is discounted.

    HMMM.

    or Brainsmasher:

    “I blame Pioli for hiring Haley–a guy who never played the game AT ANY LEVEL. Haley was supposed to be this offensive guru then he fired Chan Gailey–a proven offensive guru.”

    Wow, I recall a struggling offense in AZ and then an explosion of points during his tenure. How did they do once he left? Also, Gailey’s longevity makes him a guru? His tenure with the Cryboys was short and not quite successful. Also how is Buffalo?

    HMMM 28-36 record in 4 years as HC and 0-2 in playoffs with the Cryboys.

    In the immortal words of Billy Madison:

    It takes 2 to tango.

    A word of advice from SGT. Hulka (the big toe):

    Lighten up Francis.


  • January 19, 2012  - Justin says:

    Here we go again:

    txchief:

    “I’m not sure why most seem to automatically assume that Pioli and Hunt have launched some type of conspiracy to spy on their employees and demoralize them. How do we know that it wasn’t Haley himself who was paranoid and imagined his office being bugged and his cellphone wiretapped? People love drama and paranoia can be contagious.”

    Really? People who STILL work there were interviewed for the article and said so. I guess Haley played the ‘ol Jedi mind trick on’em.

    Too much supposition on both sides and too little facts. Then again many use facts in a vacuum to prove their points. Seems an awful lot like the GOP debates.


  • January 19, 2012  - Johnfromwichita says:

    There was a disaster movie called “2011 Kansas City Chiefs”. It was not pretty. Many bad and rotten things happened. That movie is gone and I’m from this point sooo looking for the 2012 version to come out. Previews are looking better. Go Chiefs. Please.


  • January 19, 2012  - traumaman says:

    My hat is off to you Bob for continuing to point out to the fans of this site and Chief diehards facts that underscore the incompetence of Pioli. W/o this sort of forum, there is no avenue to hold the clowns @ 1 Arrowhead publicly accountable since we can’t fire them. Enough from those that want to blame Haley for the Chiefs ills. Clearly, all that Pioli and that cheapskate, carpet bagger owner care more about are their profits i.e. “coffee budgets” and the “league” than bringing Championships to the fans of KC.

    What credible GM in his right mind would have ever made an unproven and unimpressive OC that lacked any track record of consistent accomplishments, from of all places, the Cardinals to be his first HC hire. Clark and Scott got exactly what they paid little for and deserve to live with the ridicule until they finally demonstrate competence; Cowher or, Gruden.

    This GM has demonstrated that w/o Belichick to counter his megalomaniac tendencies, he and this franchise will continue to self destruct just as his body of work reflects; Tyson Jackson, Jonathan Baldwin and Todd Haley. Giving Clark some degeree of credit, at least he gambled. Clearly Pioli was not the brains behind the Patriots dynasty. Until Pioli is gone, no credible HC with a proven record will ever come to KC.


  • January 19, 2012  - Jimbo says:

    Wow.. This is interesting stuff. Bob lights the fire and runs away, leaving us with the duty of figuring out the best way to put it out. The fire is quickly spreading while we decifer fact from fiction and grading each others points of view.

    Bob has dumped on us what appears to be heresay, gossip and endless presumptions of what goes on behind enemy lines. Stirring the pot of public opinion is indeed interesting but lacks any facts or truths. I’m not interested in giving away my first born child or bringing gasoline to a bon fire…. Shame on you MR. Gretz.
    Go Chiefs.


  • January 19, 2012  - Petey says:

    I concur Niblick, everyone does have the right to their opinion, but I believe it should be done without belittling or the need to call names. The people that don’t like what Bob is writing keep beating the drum that he has an ax to grind and if that’s the case, why keep coming back and reading the same things over and over.

    I have a picture in my head of Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House trying to stop the stampede by waiving his arms yelling “All is Well, All is Well.” All is not well at One Arrowhead and the silence coming from there is speaking loud and clear.


  • January 19, 2012  - Niblick says:

    Petey – Fair enough. You answered my post. You dislike his tone more than his dissenting view. I sometimes feel the same way about those who agree with Bob’s view.

    Jimbo- It’s good to see you back. You posted yesterday prasing Bob’s view and now are criiticizing some of his views . I think that’s a very fair approach.


  • January 19, 2012  - Blake says:

    Hey Bob how about a real news! Lets hear about possible offensive coordinators, free agents, draft picks, our free agents, things that Romeo is going to do different! This day by day attack is getting old, attack the Chiefs, attack Scott Pioli, attack Clark Hunt, are you really trying to divide Chiefs fans? Because that is what you are doing, and it is pretty easy to see in the comments.

    I want to move on from this issue, Haley could be a great coach and Pioli could be a great GM but they didnt get along! Not everyone can work with everyone! There is no proof of the phone tapping, just some mad former employees who were lazy and not good enough at their jobs. Read War Room it list specific examples of them not doing their jobs good enough.

    Now for this story, Powe never would have started for the Chiefs, if Amon Gordon wasn’t so versatile Powe could have played but Gordon could play DE and NT so it would be dumb for Powe to play and only get a couple snaps, should he have played in atleast three games? Yes but I am guessing the Romeo had some voice in when he played too. Stanzi should have played but I don’t think he should have started, he wasn’t ready the Chiefs didn’t want to throw him into the fire, Palko who cares if they throw him into the fire lol. Hudson only could have played LG and maybe he should have but he is going to be the starter next year and they did the same thing with Asamoah last year so its no big deal. Bailey got plenty of playing time, but he wasn’t going to start. Brown got plenty of playing time when he stopped getting penalties he did a good job, he did good as a gunner on the outside too. He was never going to start for us and I dont think he was ready for playing time at CB-the play that keeps flashing back in my memory is from the preseason and him going in for press coverage and his man getting by him for an easy long TD pass.


  • January 19, 2012  - napahank says:

    Bob,
    Although I agree with the outcome of the 2011 season (rookies will go into 2012 with less experience than could have been possible), I don’t see where the blame can be positively laid at the Pioli/Haley relationship.

    To be fair, the 2011 season was an anomaly for the the entire league with the lockout. The established teams with established rosters had a huge advantage.

    As for the Chiefs in particular you lost the first half of the season for our first round draft pick getting on the field (not Pioli/Haley fault). Our second round pick played some but you are not going to sit our iron man center the last half of his final season. Our third round pick saw a lot of action, and became a starter. Rounds 4-7 picks usually have a hard time making it out of training camps, maybe the practice squad (where they practice and develop). There are exceptions but what volumn of 4th-7th round players saw appreciable amount of snaps their rookie season in this lockout year?

    You play players who you think best help you to win games…unless it is pre-season or you are out of the playoffs for sure. The only game that qualified for this criteria other than the preseason games was the finale. I personally believe it is very important to end the season on a winning note…not a practice scrimmage with your unknowns against a division rival who is not treating this as a scrimmage for their rookies and practice squad elevates.

    Finally, with the lockout (no pre-camp conditioning),1st round pick out before we started, 3 KEY starters lost out of the gate to season ending injuries and then yes…conflict between GM & HC, the 2011 Chiefs were not just handicapped-they were doomed for the 2011 season.

    The 2012 season…well that is another story!


  • January 19, 2012  - Flyboy26 says:

    Also glad to see you back, Jimbo. I think your assessment of Bob’s writing is absolutely correct. I find it disturbing in the world today that so many people say what another person thinks or says without actually knowing what that person thinks or having actually heard what that
    person said.

    To those who find fault with those of us who criticize or dislike what Bob or others say and yet continue to read the articles and posts, I say, a wise person reads from every source he can so he can better determine the truth. An individual can write a bad article or opinion one day and the reverse, the next day.


  • January 19, 2012  - Blake says:

    Well said Flyboy26! I agree


  • January 19, 2012  - Petey says:

    A wise person may continue to read the information, but a wise person does not continue to bitch and moan about the opinions of one man when they have a general idea as to what the tone of the writing is going to be. It’s plain foolish to continue do something freely that causes one such consternation.


  • January 19, 2012  - Blake says:

    I paid the same amount of money that everyone else did, and if I don’t agree with what Bob says I can’t speak my opinion? That’s bull Petey!


  • January 19, 2012  - Blake says:

    I paid the same amount of money that everyone else did, and if I don’t agree with what Bob says I can’t speak my opinion? That’s bs Petey!


  • January 19, 2012  - Petey says:

    Absolutley right Blake, I agree with you giving your opinion 100% just like I can. What I don’t agree with is the 3rd grade name calling (which has taken place…I believe someone called Bob a Fat A@@ at one point), the belittling of others opinions and what Bob sees fit to write(his right by the way) which has what’s been happening and the constant threats to leave the site if Bob didn’t start writing what THEY wanted him to.

    If you think that is BS, then that is your right and respect that, but you notice not one time in my response did I try to bully you or talk down to you to get my point across.


  • January 19, 2012  - Blake says:

    I guess I missed the name calling part, I haven’t seen that? Bob does have his opinion, as do we all. I don’t think people are threatening to leave Bob’s site if he doesn’t start writing what they want him to they are just tired of the same story over and over again. I agree that it is wrong to try and talk down to someone to get your point across Petey, but the sad thing is it has been going on a lot more these days especially with the KC Star story coming out.


  • January 19, 2012  - cjed says:

    Remember when Bob wrote for KCchiefs.com and Whitlock would criticize Peterson for anything that was wrong with the Chiefs and Bob would rail on Whitlock. Now that Bob has been canned by the Chiefs, he sounds like Whitlock.


  • January 19, 2012  - iwriter says:

    Doug… Great point… Mentioning that the main point of BObs article was that they were not on the same side.. and I completely agree about that…. I was just saying that there is 2 sides to this story and I am sure the blame is not only on Pioli..for sure Pioli has a part in it..

    Justin… I was quoting from Bill MOss about arizona players and coaches…. granted we heard from a few that liked him… but again our team was exstatic when Crennel took over.. why would they be so happy and want to win for him if they were so happy with Haley.. Haley approach did not win him so many converts when all was said and done…. but the true test will be next year and to see if we can sign some other free agents… otherwise Pioli can not use Haley as an excuse anymore. He has a coach that players love. I never said what Bob said was not true only that I think there should be balance… I think that Doug point that we were not all going in the same direction was a brilliant one… and maybe is the main reason why we fell apart so much last season..


  • January 19, 2012  - Petey says:

    writer, you bring up a good point and it will be an interesting one to see play out regarding the players thoughts on Crennels hiring. Haley was a task master, bordering on a bully (believe it or not, I’m not a Haley fan) so I think it’s natural for the players to think the tyrant is out of the building. If Romeo allows it to get back to like it was with Herm, where it felt like HE was a fan, then I think it’s a bad thing. I don’t think it was an accident that Bowe and DJ became pro bowlers under Haley. Romeo just can’t let the inmates run the asylem.


  • January 19, 2012  - johnfromfairfax says:

    Good points all and the purpose of a blog. It is an interactive social forum after all. I agree everybody has a right to their opinion and we should respect everybody’s (including Bob’s) and not name call or personally attack one another. We will get to the coaching hires, combine, free agency and the draft soon. If you don’t see the breadth and scope of Bob’s background and reporting on all of those you are missing an important component of the package. The season is still going on for the elite teams and we just finished the season after firing our coach, not making the playoffs and having the local paper write an expose on a lot of contributing issues that have been alluded to for quite some time. To say okay let’s just talk about field related matters and positive cheering isn’t going to happen for a while. We all post and follow one another’s opinions because we bleed red and gold. We all love our team and bled a lot more than we wished this past season. I have stated on a number of occasions I hope Hunt and Pioli and Romeo are successful and we have a tremendous team next year and going forward. Nothing would make me and I’m sure the rest of us happier. But I’m still pissed about how this season turned out and trying to figure out what went wrong. I’m still pissed about how it all played out and that we missed an opportunity that maybe we could have seized. I’m also not willing to give the owner and GM a pass on the loss we all experienced. Haley is gone and paid the price for his part in it. They’re still here and should examine their role in the experience and not just pass the blame. The only way we can give our input is to express ourselves. Which brings me back to the purpose of the blog. There’s a lot of collective knowledge on this site. I learn a lot reading all of your posts, even those I may not agree with. I would lose interest pretty quickly if Bob and all those who respond to his posts merely matched my sentiments. There are also times when I don’t agree with a post or it doesn’t strike my interest and I choose to not respond and that’s okay too.


  • January 19, 2012  - iwriter says:

    Amen JohnfromFairfax… In case I have not said this I also love Bobs blogg and happy to support him and I do believe that he sees more than we do and I am glad he is here giving his opinion based on his vast experience…. I do love the opinions based on our views as this adds to this blogg. I think for the most part most of us are very appreciative of what Bob is doing.. it is fun to speculate and give out other opinions so this Blogg is a fun way to pass the time… I have some hope if as bob says they bring in someone to challenge Cassel…. I hope they do….otherwise we are sunk….


  • January 19, 2012  - Johnfromwichita says:

    JohnFF, I think it’s probably the name but you nailed it. Fun, isn’t it. iwriter, we have enough of a team to compete in AFC West. Just need to get better to compete with the rest. Could be worse; could have John Elway as president. Ghost of Derrick Thomas: go sack his ass. Again.


  • January 20, 2012  - cychief24 says:

    IMO, Bob is being very effective at driving hits and comments to his site.

    As far as the roster, I was angry most of the year at Pioli until the Gaither debacle. Pioli clearly got Haley a replacement for the pitiful Richardson, but Haley wouldn’t play him. Then look at well McClain did when Romeo and Muir played him.
    I have a feeling Haley only wanted players that went through his boot camp.
    Maybe Pioli decided not to waste any money on players Haley would play anyway.
    Just a thought….


  • January 20, 2012  - Petey says:

    My only comment would be on the handling of Gaither. There was a reason that Haley didn’t play him that we will never know and it may have been as petty as has been described above. However, Pioli was the one that released him, so his is just as much at fault as Haley and I would add that maybe he is more to blame. I don’t remember which week Gaither was released, but it couldn’t have been much sooner than Haley was fired. If Pioli had any idea that he was getting rid of Haley, then I think he probably would have kept Gaither and let the interim coach take a look. I think Pioli wanted JG gone just as much as Haley did. Obviously, nothing but speculation since we will never find out.


  • January 20, 2012  - Blake says:

    What is really sad is that Bill Muir said he isn’t as good as he use to be and his doesn’t play with the intensity that he use to….

    Well it looks like Muir got that wrong…


  • January 20, 2012  - leonard says:

    Once again. the whiners are howling. I love it. You chased out Marty, carl , now Haley and you Piss and moan about the ramifications. Ed J your are a totally devoid of any logic in your rambling. Jwriter really? Haley was a scapegoat for Pioli’s bad decisions. Stanzi was as ready as the kid in Chicago that got humiliated by the opposing teams. If Haley had thrown Stanzi to the wolves you same whiners would be crying about that. Fact, the lockout hurt this team, the lack of any depth on the O line, and the horrible QB situation is all Pioli’s doing. Firing Haley will not fix a thing if Pioli does the same thing in 2012.


  • January 20, 2012  - leonard says:

    brainsmasher: WTF are you talking about? Haley did not run off Weis. That is a lie propagated by the talking heads in KC. Weis went to Florida for his kids. He could hav had any OC job in the NFL.


  • January 20, 2012  - txchief says:

    It would seem that the stats provided in this article would support the contention that many of the MOST SUCCESSFUL 2011 NFL teams hade very little rookie play. Hmmm…


  • January 21, 2012  - Bill Leifer says:

    I agree with Nathan. I loved the Chiefs for 35 years, when, rightfully or wrongfully, the fan’s perception was of an enlightened, egalitarian family against the dark forces of teams like the Raiders. The working man’s team. Open, honest, frank, a big loving, democratic organization that wore the white hats. Well, sorry. It was never that. It was a business with a model that made money and didn’t get to the big show. Pioli was brought in to change the culture, tighten the ship, “loose lips sink ships”. He needs more time to change the culture and a chance to find a staff that makes it all work. A championship will quiet the critics. This is a business, and one of the very toughest ones at that. If you are not a tough-minded organization, you will lose the game of NFL football to teams that are. And yes, opposing teams find out as much info on each other as they can and use it against their rivals in games. It is time to grow up, Chiefs fans. The BBQ will still waft throughout the parking lot. I promise.


  • January 22, 2012  - cychief24 says:

    Thanks for sharing Muir’s quote, Blake.
    Muir needs to retire.
    How feeble Weigmann played over Hudson (who blocked like a road grader in Pre-Season) was unbelievable. I wonder when the bruises on Weigmann’s butt will heal from landing on it all year every play.
    Also, if Richardson was playing with intensity then he really stinks.

    I’m really getting anxious on Romeo announcing the hiring of new Sp. Teams and Off. Coordinators from outside the Chiefs staff. Plus new o-line and QB coaches.




Get the Flash Player to see the slideshow.


Categories

Game Coverage 2013
NFL Almanac 2014
NFL Combine 2014
NFL Draft 2014
NFL Free Agency 2014
Other News

Archives


RSS


Pages

Home