Podcasting: Football with Goose 12/26

Bob, Great work keep it up,you got a nice show going.

Well, there you have it NFL draft fans as it relates to the Chiefs and their picks over the past 10 years or so. Goose: The evaluator (GM or head of personnel)and the coaching staff needs to be on the same page.

Then too, the coaches should only have a say but not the final decision making in those players taken. So, again, highly subjective but let’s look back over our shoulder to past drafts:

CP with Marty: On the same page? Not often. CP having final say regardless? Not always.

CP with DV: On the same page? Usually
CP having final say regardless? Not always.

CP with Herm: On the same page? Not often.
CP having final say regardless? Not always.

I think Goose has the best drafting acumen of any scribe out there and I always look forward to his pre-draft mocks which are usually more accurate than the self annointed genuises like Kiper.

Anyway, good podcast.

dont agree rip’em,

carl essentially gave the coaches whatever they wanted (whether it is FA or draft picks). The one notable diffrence was with DV when Carl picked LJ.

All the players since 2006 were Herm picks. Finally, it is up to the coaching staff to develop and coach the players that are on the field. To get the most out of them. That is not CP’s job. In that regard, the chiefs and coaches have failed.

Have the coaches got the best out of our young Dline or has gun made our linebackers better since he specifically coached them too? That is a clear and absolute no.

Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.

AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-RE-affirmed – and so does Rin – Herm’s The Man!

Findthedoc,

I guess it’s not going to be really known unless someone from the draft war room goes public. I just go on the snippets of information picked up from various sources over the past several years.

I don’t think the acrimony that existed between Marty and CP is up to question? There’s was a shotgun marriage of sorts that was quelled somewhat when Marty got more control over the draft in his final 4 or 5 seasons. This was documented by local writers and reported without any memorable howls of protest from the principles involved.

DV and CP were old buddies from Philly and generally got along. But, not always on draft day. In addition to the LJ standoff that you mentioned, I submit comments heard from DV during the last NFL-N’s coverage of the Combine when now commentator DV stated, “I would often get up on the table and shout for my guy over all in the room”. Most notably, according to DV, when, curiously enough for an offensive guy, he wanted Jared Allen and got his wish. Was this an attempt by DV to polish his resume` for what turned out to be a pro-bowler? Up to debate.

Finally, we have the Herm and CP footage from the 2007 HBO series of Hard Knocks. CP was always seen as the hard ass in passing out instructions and edicts to the coaching staff which Herm was always in compliance.

Was that compliance for the cameras or genuine? I say it wasn’t but again, only those in the room would know for certain. Then, on draft day, we see continuing comments from Herm as to his guys, the choices and leading one to believe that he called the shots. I’m dubious.

Notice in my three scenarios, Marty-DV-Herm, the word ALWAYS was not used? That’s where Goose’s comments ring true, where the evaluators and coaches were never on the same true page and the result is what we have at present. I again, rest my case.

Very few teams have coaches/GMs think exactly the same on everything, and that is a good thing. One person you left out of in the coaching list was Gunther Cunningham. His drafts/FA are worse than the others. It would have been good if CP disagreed with him.

In either case, at least on defense, the team has far too many quality picks invested and those guys are underperforming. That has nothing to do with the draft, and has everything to do with coaching.

As for CP and Herm, they have had a long history together, as was documented in a recent star article. CP is just another scape goat for Herm’s numerous failures.

read this fluff piece that Gretz wrote recently on Herm: http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/12/24/worried_about_the_ball_coach/

Its obvious he still wants him back to coach next year, and i wouldnt be suprised if Gretz still wants him to get a 5-10yr extension.

Looking forward to another great draft for the Chiefs from you in April 2009 Coach Edwards.

Herm – you the man!

So find so what if it is a fluff piece on Herm. And anything the star says holds no weight whatsoever. Most of them are full of …. I am amazed that people have no sense whatsoever. I am ranting and I apologize for that. I just want him to finish what he started. As I have said before I am glad that this team finally got blown up. Whether Herm is the coach for the long haul is still up in the air. I am not sure he is. I do think he should be given his last year on his contract to finish what he started. Sorry all of you haters can go fly a kite till there is real proof that Herm can’t do it. If they get rid of him before next year you still won’t have any proof because he wasn’t allowed to finish it. And if another coach does come in and takes this team to a playoff spot next year every single one of you will be wrong because herm was right. But, not a single one of you will give him his due. I am not afraid to say I like Herm. He did the right thing. Wasn’t what I wanted to see this year but I have seen the potential this team has.

there is real proof that Herm can’t do it. should read there is no real proof that herm cant do it

4-12 with old players. 2-13 with young players Below .500 in NY after being given a Parcells team. Just what kind of proof are you looking for other than record? Herm is a poor Head Coach, but he was definitly right about rebuilding and blowing this team up, But we need someone competant to continue and complete the job.

Competent he took teams 3 out of 5 years in ny to the playoffs. And with that organization. I think he is more than competent and as far as his team here his stumbling block is no longer in the way (carl p). Now all he needs to do is bring in a competent defensive coordinator. since cp is gone he can now git rid of gun. and his 4-12 season again was with a gun defense that stinks.

CarlM,

you might have something against the Star, but they had direct quotes from herm. I brought it up because rip’em was trying to make an excuse that Herm and CP were not on the same page. Here is another article:
——————————————–

http://www.montereyherald.com/sports/ci_11271084?nclick_check=1&forced=true

Herman Edwards NFL Diary
Posted: 12/19/2008 08:58:01 AM PST

I have known Carl Peterson since I was 17 years old. He recruited me out of Monterey High when he was an assistant coach at UCLA.

When I got out of college, he signed me as an undrafted free agent for the Eagles when he was in Philadelphia. We kept a strong relationship.

I remember telling him when I get out of this game as a player, I want to coach. He told me start in college. He gave me an internship the first year he got to Kansas City in 1988.

Then he gave me a scouting position the following year where I worked with Tony Dungy. Carl actually gave me my first head coaching interview before I went to the Jets a year later.

Then he got me out of New York five years later for a fourth round pick. He traded for me.

No doubt Carl was the face of the Chiefs. The season ticket base was only 30,000 when he arrived 20 some years ago. Now it’s filled each week. He has had a tremendous run. He put the Chiefs back on the map.

so to say that Herm and CP werent on the same page is a joke…other than maybe CP getting tired of Herm making excuses for all the failures (blaming DVs players/offense/drafts, blaming age of the players, blaming the ‘rebuild’ and when it should have started…).

Now you somehow think that some new GM will put his job on the line with a losing coach? If the new GM has any say, he will get a new HC who is beholden to him (just like how Herm gutted his coaching staff of coaches like sexton, terry shea, and others who might not have been beholden to his ‘R2P2′ offensive strategy).

To think otherwise would just be plain foolish. The only way a new GM sticks with Herm is if he is forced to by Clark.

yeah right they were on the same page. Herm spent time with Dungy in Tampa and he brought some of that here and carlp used the lets plug a worthless veteran crap into the game last year because unluckily we went to the playoffs the year before. i say crap on that find. They werent on the same page. Herm wanted to do this the first year he was here. I dont blame the rebuild or the players. But, i do put the blame where it belongs. I blame peterson for letting it get bad the last 10years. If he would have gotten players the last 10years that were worth anything we wouldnt even be having this discussion. You blame herm because what you want vermeil back? NO SUPERBOWL. I agree with you on the new GM though. However, I do think they let herm have his last year. They might of had history doesn’t mean they were on the same page. I know a lot of people in this world and I’ve known some of them my whole life. But, I am not on the same page with them.