Podcast: Len’s Look 10/31
Joining us for a discussion on the Chiefs is the legend, Len Dawson. The Hall of Fame quarterback talks about what he saw from Tyler Thigpen last week and what the next step is for the young quarterback. He talks about the spread offense and why it won’t work in pro football and what he would have done in the fourth quarter with the lead and five minutes to play. And Len provides an interesting look at the special teams shuffle the Chiefs have had in the last two weeks.
Good to hear Lenny agree that a QB roll out /w an option would have been a good play to call on one of the 3 plays, on that disasterious drive.
It’s hardly “2nd guessing”! It should have been first line of thought for someone! (herm/Gaily)
Of course the Media, PETRO! (this blog included)
just stay on talking points, there was no other option other than throw a risky pass or run the ball 3 straight times to the SAME SIDE of the field!
You guys keep calling it second guessing, I’ll call it common sense, and having enough GUTS to … PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!
I like the fact that Lenny is having conversation with Tyler I don’t understand why young guys don’t reach out to the Hall of Fame players more often. Hopefully Tyler will continue to pick Len’s brain the rest of the season about what does he need to do to improve as an NFL quarterback.
As for his commments on the defense it may just be time for us to change our defensive coord. Lets be real about Gunther has been leading one of the worst defenses in the league for the last 10yrs. The 7yrs for sure we’ve been one of the worst defenses against the run in the league. Even when Vermeil was here it was the same problem can’t tackle and giving up big plays against the run. Different personel now that Herm’s here but same result. If this defense doesn’t improve starting Sunday its just time for us find a more qualified defensive coord.
Herm does not deserve to change another Co-ordinator. Gunther’s not the problem, it’s above him.
Haven’t met/don’t know Thigpen or Brodie Croyle, & both, one or the other or neither may realize NFL success in the final analysis, but that #16 talked to Thigpen (Dawson was queried/approached by #4 regards football discourse casually or in the process an interview etc. had I to venture a guess) is great.
It’s always dangerous to make a snap judgement (whether coaching decisions, say KC’s vs NY) or rookie ‘busts’ (a Dorsey? or whomever, etc.) or personal demeanor, but I’m going to live on the edge and do so.
I was a Croyle supporter (still am, if healthy I believe he will compete for the QB spot in 2009 and may be 1st or 2nd string or conversely, not here at all), but my ‘perception’ from afar is Brodie is a more fun lovin’ sorta guy. In that, he presents himself along the lines of a Dandy Don Meredith ‘good old boy’, whereas a Thigpen despite his youth is for purposes descript here more of a Len Dawson type, at first glance.
Younger fans may not know that when Len Dawson was a ‘yute’ in the NFL, he tried a bit to but emulate Bobby Layne, a hard-livin hard-speakin guy who gained fame with DET afore heading over to PITT where Len was. That wasn’t Len, who one sport magazine of the time described as being “as sparkling as a wet fish”. Len has obviously via work in the media & experience progressed to the smooth operative we see today, but he was a young man like Thigpen back then.
Layne was brash, but in the end Len wasn’t that way & how much of the swagger a Dawson ended up mimicing is Len’s secret. But, Len has stated he learned more from his Coach Hank Stram about the QB position than anyone else. Unfortunately, KC has no Stram (who was offensive-minded.) We have defensive-minded Herm…& Dick Curl – ay caramba.
Hopefully egos (everyone involved, but without question KC coaches & QBs etc.) see Dawson as a gift & not an interloper. Too that a difference in age (Len 73, Tyler 24) wouldn’t be a stumbling block (tho, this being 2008 & not 1958, I still recall a quote attributed to Len back in ’66 that may indicate how the modern ‘me me me’ guys are more oft quoted/revered than the strong, silent types like Len were then:
“I believe there is a time and a place to fool, but the football field is neither the time nor the place.” – Len Dawson
Now some might suggest Len’s no nonsense persona was so tight he might have been able to but press diamonds out his yoo-hoo, but he was my hero back in the day. Lenny made it a habit to state things such as (after throwing a TD pass): “we were able to get the ball to him (the receiver.) NEVER was it ‘I’ did this, ‘I’ did that, yadda yadda yadda.
Thigpen doesn’t impress me as an ‘Terrell Owens’ buffoonish clown…here’s hoping that Tyler can offer some hope he’s more a Dawson ‘man’.
Bend Lenny’s ear Tyler…
Another excellent podcast and thanks for it Bob. Some comments on what Lenny had to say.
I agree that in the spread you need a QB to make lightning quick decisions, have quick feet and get rid of the ball fast. Thigpen did all that and far better than Croyle ever has in the standard pro set. I’m still not sold that the spread with Thigpen can’t work and I don’t care how fast the DEs are. Buying time on rollouts negates that element somewhat and with two TE sets there’s more options and potential blocking.
It’s not as if the standard stuff has been successful anyhow, so a major bone of contention there. The NFL is copycat as we all know. Then, along comes Miami and the Wildcat. I say, until the D proves they can disrupt the spread as well as they have created havoc with the standard formations, run that Mother at ‘em.
Again, what’s working better thus far? OK, Lenny made an excellent point on the defense giving up huge chunks on the ground because the LBs are having Cs and OGs getting to them. Is this poor coaching, schemeing, or inferior talent? Someone needs to be held accountable.
As a self proclaimed draft junkie, I can attest that most “experts” on the subject thought that Dorsey, Tyler, and McBride were worthy of being selected where they were. Some may have called Hali a reach, but not a major one in any sense. I have a hard time believing the talent is inferior. It’s either the coaching or the scheme (which is a by-product of coaching) and something needs to change or you’d better believe some heads are gonna roll!
The Czar, Goose, and now Lenny too? You da man Bob Gretz! Keep these podcasts coming!
I agree with Rich. The Chiefs are acting as if everyone wants them to use the classic spread all the time. Not so, but it can be a big part of the offense, and it’s not like pro teams can’t tweak it. Actually, just some creativity is what everyone is after. Use it, use the roll-outs, use the gadget plays, pass on first down, throw on third and short, on and on. At this point, with this team, it’s necessary. And everyone is dead tired of RRRP. You have to use imagination to create opportunity, to produce space for your offense. Stop trying to set up the pass with the runs up the gut when you can’t run up the gut. So, what’s with the PR campaign against the spread? Herm speaks against it some, Petro does it on his podcast, Bob does in his acticle, then Len. A little over reaction? We get it; you can’t use it 100% of the time. The Jets weren’t expecting it. NFL defenses will attack it. I don’t completely buy all that. Aren’t NFL defenses designed to stop runs up the gut, screens, draws, sweeps, post patterns…Isn’t the trick to do what you do very well, and at an opportune time? Oh man, I hope Thiggy does well, or Niswanger’s going to have a RB glued to his butt for the rest of the year.
Also agree with Colby. Too much talent for that to be the problem. Youth and inexperience have to be a large part, but it’s obvious scheme and technique are sorely lacking.
Rin Tin Tin…I fear that beautiful arm and glass jaw will break our hearts yet more. If the line comes around; if the run game comes around; if Croyle improves his footwork, bulks up even more and learns to get rid of the ball quicker and live to play another play…maybe.
Lenny the cool…him and Montana were my favorite QBs to watch. That’s art.