Negative Thoughts … Monday Cup O’Chiefs

Over the last few days, even as he spent time with the kids and got away from the office for a few hours, you can bet that Todd Haley’s thoughts never strayed too far away from football.

Especially Todd Haley the offensive coordinator. The contemplation most certainly centered on negative plays, minus yardage. In football, the object of the offense is to move forward. For the 2009 Chiefs offense, there have been far too many plays where they went in reverse.

In seven games, the Chiefs offense has had 90 negative yardage plays. That’s running and passing play for minus yards, sacks, interceptions, fumbles lost and offensive penalties. When it comes to negative on offense, the Chiefs lead the league.

“Minus plays, minus plays, we have to eliminate minus plays,” Haley said last week. “Coach (Bill) Parcells drilled it into my head over and over and over again for years about minus plays and how they lead to dissatisfaction with your offense.

“Right now, we’re all dissatisfied with the offense and to me the root of that evil is minus plays.”

Here’s how those negative plays breakdown at this point in the season:

Negative Plays     #    Minus Yards Comment


- 66

Tied for 3rd in NFL for minus runs, 2nd in minus yards


- 9

Tied for 8th in negative pass plays


- 164

Leading NFL in sacks for negative yardage


- 68

68 yards INT return yardage, affecting field position
Lost Fumbles



Among NFL’s best teams in not losing fumbles


- 235

Leading the league in offensive flags and lost yards


- 542

No. 1 among NFL offenses in going backwards

Going into this weekend’s games, the Chiefs were 30th in offensive yards, averaging 251.6 yards per game. Factor in that lost yardage of 542 yards. That would be another 77.4 yards per game. If they were averaging 329 yards per game, they would be 19th in the league and had who knows how many other opportunities to score.

“We’re doing an extensive study,” Haley said of his offensive coaching staff, “To figure out if it is the play; are we asking the players to do something they just can’t do? Is it the players? Is it match ups? What is it? We are trying to see if we can see a pattern that develops between the sacks, the minus runs and the penalties. ”

With the coaching tape and computer systems available to the staff, they have more resources to delve into the problem that those of us outside Arrowhead Stadium. But there are some things we can investigate and learn from when it comes to the Chiefs offense and its problems with negative plays.

First is the obvious answer: they aren’t good enough. One can never stray too far away from that factor in this ’09 season. The Chiefs do not have enough talent and that shows up in the negative plays. It shows up in the defenses penchant for giving up big plays. Haley does not have enough players who are fast enough, quick enough or strong enough.

That can be seen in the team’s offensive line, which is really the root of the root of the problem with minus plays. Haley’s offensive line coach Bill Muir is one of the best in the business, so the problem is not coaching. As offensive coordinator, Haley may have complicated the situation by changing the offense just before the start of the season. Part of that change was increasing the number of protections in the team’s game plan each week. Former coordinator Chan Gailey believed in fewer protections. Haley believes in more. That transition may have played a part in the blocking struggles.

On those negative running plays, eight were for lost yardage of four yards or more. That’s not the running back’s fault, since that’s an indication they were barely got the handoff before they were facing incoming tacklers. When it comes to penalties, the Chiefs offensive line is the biggest culprit. With 10 offensive holding calls, the Chiefs lead the league. With 13 false starts, they have the second highest total in the league. With four delay of game penalties they are tied for the third most in the league.

Every member of the Chiefs offensive line has been flagged this year so far. LB Brian Waters has been penalized six times for minus-45 yards. LT Branden Albert missed 2.5 games because of his left ankle injury, but he has four penalties for minus-25 yards. RT Ikechuku Ndukwe did not start long, but he picked up three flags, with C Rudy Niswanger and C/G/T Wade Smith each getting hit with two penalties.

When the offensive line can’t get things done and is inconsistent in performance, it’s a domino effect, because it falls back on the quarterback and the running backs especially. Even TE Sean Ryan is affected, as his role has changed from catching passes to now spending more time blocking. That’s a reason he’s one of the most penalties players on the team with three calls for minus-25 yards.

Pass protection falls on more than just the offensive line. The tight ends and backs have to contribute, so does the quarterback who can’t hold the ball too long and the wide receivers that have to adjust routes and recognize opponent blitzes. All are failing with the Chiefs. Beyond questionable talent on the offensive line, the spotlight falls on the inexperience of QB Matt Cassel. Last year, he led the league in getting sacks in New England. That was largely due to the fact he was coached by Bill Belichick and his staff to not taking any chances throwing the ball; they’d rather he take the sack than throw a ball in a spot where it might get picked off.

Haley stresses ball protection with his quarterbacks as well, and the surest way for the No. 1 guy to get a seat on the bench would be to throw interceptions and fumble the ball away. For the most part, Cassel has followed that path. Not until the loss to San Diego when he threw an interception hat trick has he had problems turning over the ball.

But there’s no question he has to get rid of the football faster, and he needs Haley to do whatever he can schematically to help the protection group.

Because of the lack of talent, the Chiefs will likely have to deal with negative plays the rest of this season; there’s no way to find an infusion of talent at this point of the season. However, there’s no doubt that better preparation, better play calling and better play will diminish the number of times the Kansas City offense goes backwards.


  • DOLPHINS – activated LB Matt Roth from PUP List; released TE John Nalbone.
  • REDSKINS – placed OT Chris Samuels on the injured-reserve list (neck).
  • SEAHAWKS – activated CB Marcus Trufant from PUP List.


On November 2, 1969, the Chiefs beat the Buffalo Bills 29-7 at War Memorial Stadium in Buffalo. A crowd of 45,844 saw the Chiefs score 23 points in the fourth quarter to take the victory. Going into the final period, Buffalo led 7-6 and all the Chiefs had been able to produce was a pair of Jan Stenerud FGs from 47 and 34 yards. Stenerud came back in the fourth quarter and kicked three more, from 37, 44 and 16 yards. Then the Chiefs added a pair of TD runs by RB Mike Garrett of five and 34 yards. Garrett finished the game with 71 yards on 14 carries. WR Frank Pitts caught four passes for 70 yards. QB Mike Livingston started and played until right before the end of the first half. That’s when Len Dawson came off the bench, where he was nursing a knee injury. The Chiefs defense had four interceptions, two by FS Johnny Robinson and solos from CB James Marsalis and LB Willie Lanier. They also had nine sacks in the game, setting a club record. They held rookie RB O.J. Simpson to 41 yards on 16 carries and two passes for 32 yards.

On November 2, 1975, the Chiefs lost to the Houston Oilers 17-13 at Arrowhead Stadium, in front of 62,989 fans. The Chiefs held a 13-7 lead at half-time, but the Oilers scored 10 points in the second half for the victory. The killing combination for Houston was QB Dan Pastorini (left) and WR Ken Burrough who combined on TD passes of 77 and 57 yards. Burrough finished the game with seven catches for 177 yards. Pastorini threw for 198 yards total and also punted, averaging 45.1 yards on seven kicks. The only Kansas City TD was a one-yard run by RB Jeff Kinney. Safety Mike Sensibaugh had an interception for the Chiefs defense.

On November 2, 1980, the Chiefs beat the Baltimore Colts 31-24 at Arrowhead Stadium in front of a crowd of 52,383 fans. It was the Colts running game that made the difference in the outcome of this game. Baltimore ran for 192 yards and a pair of TDs. They were led by RB Curtis Dickey, who had a pair of scoring runs, including one for 51 yards. The Chiefs were unable to protect QB Steve Fuller who was sacked 10 times, including 2.5 sacks by DT Herb Orvis. Kansas City TDs came on the ground, as RB Horace Belton scored twice and Fuller had a seven-yard run for a TD. Baltimore QB Bert Jones threw a pair of TD passes and also two INTs, as he was picked off by CBs Eric Harris and Gary Green.

On November 2, 1986, the Chiefs beat the Chargers 24-23 at San Diego Stadium. The Chiefs scored 17 points in the fourth quarter to win the game on a 37-yard FG by Nick Lowery with seven seconds to play. QB Bill Kenney threw a pair of TD passes, going one-yard to WR J.T. Smith and five yards to WR Emile Harry. RB Mike Pruitt had a one-yard TD run. Kenney completed 21 of 32 passes for 287 yards. Defensively, the Chiefs picked off San Diego QB Tom Flick three times, with safeties Lloyd Burruss and Sherman Cocroft and CB Albert Lewis getting picks. Lewis also had a sack.


Born on November 2, 1940 in Highland Park, Michigan was G Ed Budde (right). He was a first-round selection, the eighth player taken overall in the 1963 AFL Draft out of Michigan State. Budde played 14 seasons (1963-76) with the Chiefs, appearing in 177 games, most of those in a starting role at left guard. He was selected to the AFL’s All-Time team as selected by the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Budde was selected to seven AFL All-Star games and Pro Bowls. He joined the Chiefs Hall of Fame in 1984.

Born on November 2, 1960 in Indianapolis was C Adam Lingner. He was selected in the ninth round of the 1983 NFL Draft out of Illinois. Lingner spent five seasons with the Chiefs in two segments (1983-86, 1988) getting all most all of his playing time as a long snapper. He played in 76 games with one start. Lingner played another eight seasons with Buffalo, including appearing in four Super Bowls with the Bills.

49 Responses to “Negative Thoughts … Monday Cup O’Chiefs”

  • November 2, 2009  - MenInRed says:

    It didn’t take Chan 7 games to figure out what to do with Thigpin to make it work with what he had. I think all this went to Todd’s head be a Head Coach and now that the swelling is going down a bit, maybe he will figure out that we need to finish the year out like what Chan did all of last year. I’m sure Todd is to proud to ever admit that he errored by letting Chan go, he should of rode it out for a year maybe two before wanting to take over the offense as well.

    This next game will be our win #2 for the year and thats about it, we will pick #5 again in 2010 Draft.

    Go Chiefs!!!

  • November 2, 2009  - Jim Lloyd+ says:

    MenInRed say’s ————>
    This is what I was thinking when they were more into , command control ,new team , new coach’s .
    Now what ?
    You start loving what youve got and go back to any thing that might work . Make it mesh .
    The one thing that need’s help and is not going to be easy .Put more sand bag’s around Todd to stop the FLOOD , 2 @ of those 4 TE’s in there on every snap , along with getting on both knees and put both hand’s together .

  • November 2, 2009  - Jim Lloyd+ says:

    The TE’s are for the QB , to block—- Or—As big as the are to run and block , and fake to .

  • November 2, 2009  - aPauled says:

    Last year Chan put together a gimik offense that got us through the year, but slowed future development. Haley is doing the right thing. Running a Pro Offense that the Chiefs can grow with and develop players.

    Criticism goes to Peterson and Pioli who went to camp with linemen who are either not Pro Talent or Over-the-Hill. The Chiefs should have been drafting, developing and signing FA talent to shore up the obvious.

  • November 2, 2009  - gorillafan says:

    I agree aPauled,

    I think our offense has struggled short term due to the change late, but in the long run for future years, I think if was a good decision. imo I think haley has proved that he can be an excellent play caller and coordinator.

  • November 2, 2009  - el cid says:

    Let the jury stay out until Sunday’s game. Haley wanted the bye week to work on things. Let’s see if he was able to make some changes.

  • November 2, 2009  - Mad Chief says:

    I have to agree with aPauled and gorillafan. This is a long term deal.

    And with that “make it work with Thigpen” deal…the Chiefs still only won two games all year. I wouldn’t call that “working”.

    While I would agree that letting Chan go was probably a mistake…the last thing the Chiefs need is to be trying to do a bunch of funky crap on Offense. We need to just start playing plain old fundamentally sound football.

  • November 2, 2009  - Mad Chief says:

    Just to clarify what I said above…

    I’m not sure letting Chan go was a mistake…as much as Haley taking over the job was. I hope after this year is over, Haley can find an OC he can work with.

  • November 2, 2009  - Jim Lloyd+ says:

    Mad Chief :
    Your right , but they closed the gap on several game’s and two of them that were close , fell to horrible call’s in critcal place’s . Now one will say that happen’s to all team’s but , these were close games that they were about to put the ball in the enzone , and got moved back 10 ys .
    It was like the REF took the game away from KC for no reason .

  • November 2, 2009  - Mad Chief says:


    We also had an All-Pro TE last year that was catching everything thrown his way…and commanding great respect even when the ball WASN’T thrown to him.

    I’d venture to guess that with that luxury this year, we could have “closed the gap” on some of these games, too.

  • November 2, 2009  - Tim Geary says:

    Next year demote Todd Haley to Offensive Coordinator, bring in Romeo Crennell as Defensive Coordinator, and hire Marty Shottenheimer as head coach…

  • November 2, 2009  - SG says:

    “This next game will be our win #2 for the year and thats about it, we will pick #5 again in 2010 Draft.”

    I still think we can salvage 4 wins at least (and 5 will still be target pick spot).

  • November 2, 2009  - Mad Chief says:

    SG says:

    “I still think we can salvage 4 wins at least (and 5 will still be target pick spot).”

    I agree 100%. If this team can pull its collective head out of its ass, that is. From the coaches on down to the players. There is not one player on this team that is playing as well as they should be. Same goes for the coaches. We’re not a great team…or even a good team. But, we’re better than we’ve been playing. I have no doubt about that.

  • November 2, 2009  - Tim says:

    Bob, great article! It would be very beneficial for all of us out here in “Chief Land” if you could write an article on what, if any, changes have been made to the blocking schemes/style there has, or hasn’t, been with this new coaching staff. If we drafted & acquired linemen to play in a drive blocking scheme that are now being asked to lose weight & zone block rather than lock-on & drive their guy out, then that would be a BIG issue in my mind. If that is part of what’s happening here, I’m not sure the needle points to lack of talent quite so much. If this is what’s happening, then why LJ has been the starting rb all this time is beyond me. He doesn’t seem to have the characteristics of a productive back for that kind of blocking system – unless they were very adept at it.

  • November 2, 2009  - ChuckDiesel says:

    I don’t mean to change the subject here guys but look at what I stumbled upon on FoxSports

    **Texans safety Bernard Pollard could get long-term deal?**

    The way we hear it, the Texans can’t believe ex-Chiefs SS Bernard Pollard was available to be signed in September. Pollard, who quickly became a starter in the Houston secondary, appears poised to be a long-term fixture on the back end of the defense. The Texans have been thrilled with his play vs. the run and the pass. — Pro Football Weekly

    So I don’t understand this… We release a young promising player and replace him with mike brown, who is over the hill? Look at pollard, he’s about to get a longterm contract, and guess what it was because Pendergrast didn’t like him that he cut him… what a shame, we better turn this boat around fast

  • November 2, 2009  - Jim Lloyd+ says:

    Mad Chief:
    There was another touchdown that Tony caught the ball in the Enzone AND had was called for OFF. pass interfence , He barley touched the def. players jersey with one finger when his hand went up to catch the ball.
    Result —no TD –Ball back on the 15 yd line ,clock ran out before KC could the Series !

  • November 2, 2009  - Mad Chief says:


    Lots of players get that “second wind”, so to speak, when they go to another team. We’ll see if it lasts.

    Or maybe Pollard realized he was getting another chance, possibly his last…and decided to work a little harder? Sitting out there unemployed for a couple of weeks might have motivated him. Just a thought.

    I’m a little curious, though. If Houston “couldn’t believe Pollard was available”…then why did it take so long for them to bring him in?

  • November 2, 2009  - Mark says:

    Chuck, the release of Pollard was so far, the biggest mistake Pioli/Haley made. It was nuts, and good for the Texans for capitalizing on our mistake.

  • November 2, 2009  - Will says:

    Happy Birthday Ed Budde! You should be in the Hall of Fame. Make it a great day!

  • November 2, 2009  - Shoe says:

    Could we take about 40 years off Budde’s age and suit him up?

  • November 2, 2009  - SG says:

    “We’re not a great team…or even a good team. But, we’re better than we’ve been playing.”

    I don’t think we’re even better than we’ve been playing (I think we’ve been playing over our heads a bit and competing in games we shouldn’t be in). However, we have several winnable games coming up: Jacksonville, Oakland, Buffalo, Cleveland…and we’re bound to steal one of those close ones we shouldn’t have got.

  • November 2, 2009  - SG says:

    “Look at pollard, he’s about to get a longterm contract, and guess what it was because Pendergrast didn’t like him that he cut him…”

    Somehow I am beginnning to wonder whether Penderghost will be employed next season.

  • November 2, 2009  - Pimpsean says:

    33 runs of 2 yards or less don’t really help the offense either. Im sure Parcells list went something like this:
    * Minus plays
    * Runs of 2 yds or less
    * Penalties
    * Passes under 4 yards that go nowhere

  • November 2, 2009  - Rodeo John says:

    First off Pollard’s type of playing doesn’t fit a 3-4 defensive scheme. Secondly, he wasn’t getting the job done for us, look at all of his whiffed tackles last year and during the preseason this year.

    Glad that things are working out for him down in Texas. Just becuase a person excels in one place doesn’t mean that he would have done just as well in the place he just left. There are numerous cases of this each and every year. Look at Cedric Benson this year. Perfect example.

  • November 2, 2009  - Mad Chief says:

    SG says:
    “I don’t think we’re even better than we’ve been playing”

    Okay. Name me some players who are playing at their absolute best. Or any player that could not possibly play any better than they have.

    I firmly believe that every single player on this team is capable of playing better than they have.

  • November 2, 2009  - colby says:

    Hopefully they took the bye week and used it to rework their O line. Whether it be the schemes or the players, something needs to change. This is not a question of the line not having time to jell, it’s a question of talent. Perhaps they should look at Alleman at C. Maybe Ndukwe is better suited to play RG than RT. I’d like to see them try this:

    LT Albert
    LG Waters
    C Alleman
    RG Ndukwe
    RT O’Callaghan

    Can’t be any worse than what they’ve been trotting out there. Niswanger and Goff have been garbage all year!

  • November 2, 2009  - Chiefs Fan 82 says:

    Schefter just reported the Chargers waived Chris Chambers. I hope we claim him. He has a large contract but we definitely have the room and definitely need his talent opposite Bowe.

  • November 2, 2009  - Mad Chief says:

    I doubt Chambers will fall to the Chiefs position. Somebody will grab him.

  • November 2, 2009  - Alexthe"GREAT" says:

    Pollard was cut simply b/c Pioli thought he was a dirty player….Pioli lobbied pretty hard last year 2 have him suspended for hurting the leagues “Golden Boy” at the time. This team has great talent on defense we just need a vocal superstar 2 pull it all together. We have backup players starting across the board on offense including Bowe! Yes he has big play potential, but he will also drop routine balls.If u take big play potential,drop balls and combine them u have an average WR. I wont speak on Cassel b/c he has proven 2 the entire NFL he was a 1yr wonder. IMO we should draft a whole new starting offense and try 2 sign a big tyme defensive player in the offseason 2 teach these young kids how 2 lead and be great.(J.Peppers)

  • November 2, 2009  - gorillafan says:

    “GREAT” says
    I wont speak on Cassel b/c he has proven 2 the entire NFL he was a 1yr wonder.

    ahh, you are not the entire nfl. most of us realize no matter who would be back there, they all would get killed. I think Cassel has done a decent job considering the new offense at start of season, o-line that couldnt stop a cheerleader from getting a sack and recivers that would drop a baby if you laid it in their arms

  • November 2, 2009  - arrowhead1978 says:

    ChuckDiesel, I was scratching my head when they cut Pollard also, especially for Mike Brown who didn’t help Leggett in the Cowboys game. Pollard wasn’t a dirty player he is a good safety and he is making the Texans defense better, wow its surprising to know that hard hitting Strong Safeties dont really fit into 3-4 defenses I thank you for the knowledge. I wonder how Brian Dawkins is able to manage, considering he is 36 and it’s the first time he has played in a 3-4 defense in his career.

    Rodeo John, how many whiffs did Pollard have exactly? I can recall 1 where he didn’t wrap up, other then that you dont lead the team in tackles 2 years straight by whiffing on tackles. But go ahead and support Pioli, he only brought us the best Geriatric team in the NFL…

    I definately hope they don’t bring chambers here, if they want a receiver with reliable hands and as slow as chambers grab Marvin Harrison he is still available…

  • November 2, 2009  - arrowhead1978 says:

    I love the picture of Cassell. I wonder what he is thinking? Something on the lines of “You can’t hit me like that, Im going to tell Pioli on you.”

  • November 2, 2009  - gorillafan says:


    I didnt think you were so negative last year, whats up with your being a debbie downer? jk

  • November 2, 2009  - colby says:

    Chambers hasn’t been all that great in SD this year, but we have a serious need for WRs, especially ones with speed. Engram has been a disappointment thus far, and is probably playing his last season in the NFL. He also became irrelevant after we picked up Bobby Wade. Why not bring in Chambers (if DET and STL don’t pluck him off waivers first) because we have the cap space and the need to take on his contract this year. It can’t hurt to give it a try anyway. It’s still better than Engram being a healthy scratch every week!

  • November 2, 2009  - gorillafan says:

    We have been trying out players all year trying to find the right ones,or atleast better ones, why stop now, ya know.

  • November 2, 2009  - Chiefs Fan 82 says:

    We can speculate all day why we dropped Pollard, but nobody knows but the Chiefs management. Maybe Pollard was a punk with a crappy attitude opposite of the kind of youth we want the foundation of this team to be. Regardless, we are not an average safety away from being a contender so let it go. The NFL has several cut chiefs players doing well elsewhere. Keyaren Fox and Kawika Mitchell have rings on their fingers. Along with Tynes. Fujita and Vonnie Holliday have done well for themselves and I remember seeing Siavi on a jersey when we lost to the Cowboys. Pollard IMO will not become a probowler in Houston.

  • November 2, 2009  - el cid says:

    Still uncomfortable with the Pioli/Haley view that herm’s players are only good for cutting. Two safeties are out for sunday and cutting Pollard seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Unless Haley wants 22 brand new starters, he has to find a way to use somebody on the team from 08. It is telling and worrisome to me.

  • November 2, 2009  - Tim says:

    In reply to “Alexthe”GREAT”…

    —”Pollard was cut simply b/c Pioli thought he was a dirty player….Pioli lobbied pretty hard last year 2 have him suspended for hurting the leagues “Golden Boy” at the time.”—

    And you know this…how? Do you have something to back up this claim, or is this just you making something up because you dislike the current regime?

    —”We have backup players starting across the board on offense including Bowe! Yes he has big play potential, but he will also drop routine balls.If u take big play potential,drop balls and combine them u have an average WR.”—

    Dwayne Bowe drops a lot of passes, yeah. So did Tony Gonzalez early in his career. Gonzalez turned out pretty good. If you consider Bowe to be a “backup” wide receiver, then I thank God you aren’t running any NFL team, much less the Chiefs.

    —”I wont speak on Cassel b/c he has proven 2 the entire NFL he was a 1yr wonder.”—

    Oh really? So 6 starts behind poor pass protection, with little or no support of a running game, has “proven” that Cassel was only a “1yr wonder”? I see. It doesn’t matter that any quarterback, even a genetically-spliced combination of Unitas, Montana, Marino, and Peyton Manning would struggle to accomplish anything behind a bad offensive line? It doesn’t matter that Matt Cassel’s number this far into his first year in Kansas City are better than Trent Green’s numbers this far into Green’s first season in Kansas City? Trent Green struggled with inconsistent pass protection and a sub-par receiving corp. The Chiefs traded for Willie Roaf, moved John Tait to the right side, improved their talent at wide receiver, and Green’s production took off. The bottom line is the Chiefs are not losing games because of Matt Cassel. The Chiefs are losing games because they are an all-around bad team at this point. Judging Cassel’s career potential based on these last 6 games is, quite honestly, foolish.

    —”IMO we should draft a whole new starting offense…”—

    Uh…yeah, because that’s logical. Do you want to know what would happen if the Chiefs “drafted a whole new starting offense”, as you say you want them to? An offense full of rookie players would struggle 10 times worse than what you’re seeing on the field right now, and “fans” like yourself would wait until about Week 3 before you would start crying and moaning and calling for the heads of every coach and player.

    —”…and try 2 sign a big tyme defensive player in the offseason 2 teach these young kids how 2 lead and be great.(J.Peppers)”—

    You evidently don’t know much about Julius Peppers beyond his hype. He turns 30 in January, and will be asking for a Jared Allen-type of contract only without the Jared Allen-type of consistency on the field). Peppers has all of the athletic talent in the world, and has shown himself to be one of the most inconsistent “star” players in the league today. Peppers has no business teaching anyone “how to lead”. Peppers, thus far, would know nothing about being “great”.

    Do your homework, bring some insight that actually makes sense, lose the blind negativity, and then come try to make a point. Until then, you’re really not making any sense.

  • November 2, 2009  - Tim says:

    —”el cid says:

    Still uncomfortable with the Pioli/Haley view that herm’s players are only good for cutting. Two safeties are out for sunday and cutting Pollard seems to be cutting off your nose to spite your face. Unless Haley wants 22 brand new starters, he has to find a way to use somebody on the team from 08. It is telling and worrisome to me.”—

    Larry Johnson, Dwayne Bowe, Branden Albert, Brian Waters, Rudy Niswanger, Glenn Dorsey, Ron Edwards, Tamba Hali, Demorrio Williams, Brandon Flowers, Brandon Carr, Jarrad Page.

    All starters for “Herm’s” Chiefs last season. All starters for the Chiefs this season. Not to mention contributors like Jamaal Charles, Dantrell Savage, Mike Cox, or Maurice Leggett who were “Herm’s” guys and are still on the team.

    This whole “Pioli cuts all of Herm’s players” thing is blown out of proportion, especially considering the fact that so few of “Herm’s” players are finding success (or even roster spots) anywhere else in the league.

  • November 2, 2009  - colby says:

    Tim says

    “This whole “Pioli cuts all of Herm’s players” thing is blown out of proportion, especially considering the fact that so few of “Herm’s” players are finding success (or even roster spots) anywhere else in the league.”

    I agree 100% Tim. A lot of fans are going into panic mode over a 1-6 start to a season that didn’t have great prospects going in. The only thing I didn’t like about the Pollard move was that they cut him outright. Seems to me they could have held onto Pollard and McBride for a few weeks into the season, wait for some other teams to get banged up, then snake a draft pick out of them. They did it with Thigpen and Tyler. Guess you can’t do this for every player but seeing as how Pollard and McBride were former 2nd rounders, you’d think they could have pulled it off. Then again, neither player should have been drafted in the 2nd round to begin with, but that was Carl…..

  • November 2, 2009  - el cid says:

    colby and Tim are correct. But I was talking in generalities. Herm’s players who do not fit the new system should be gone. But at some point in time the Chiefs have to move in a positive direction. Once again in general.

    I hope you will give me a few points. Pioli got one free agent OL Goff and one draft choice Brown. Surely he did not think those two would fix the problems in the OL. Now we are facing injuries with starters. Frankly we need anyone who can compete. Pollard was not replaced with a starter at S. Now we are short bodies. That is all, goodness knows I would not like to short the program. Bowe, Dorsey, and Hali have bought into Haley buy we need more of the starters to produce. In general, not specifics.

  • November 2, 2009  - Behind Enemy Lines says:

    Good stuff. Keep it coming.

  • November 2, 2009  - Jim Lloyd+ says:

    Take the player’s that are here and work with them , add two of the TE’s to the running back aera with the QB so he can gain the extra blocking, to do something .
    And start thinking of how the team is going to hammer out 45 point’s a game , that’s all !
    All this firing and hiring and chit chat about who what where and when don’t solve one teeney little problem . 2 of the TE’s are 6’7″ -270- and hard to bring down . Do something ?

  • November 3, 2009  - Red Robin says:

    talent pollard cant play the coaches we have had cant coach plain and simple …we need a coach with heart ..non shizz taker who have a killer instint…if we had cowher he would make the players all look like 1st roundpicks..a coach with swagg give players swagg..dont tell me about what we dont have..bull our coachin staff sucks and it has for years..and it will for years to come and ..FYI..were not gonna win 45 games ya all crazy ..the browns will beat us..and the jags..will beat u this weekend

  • November 3, 2009  - Red Robin says:

    5 or 4 games..and i am a true KC fan .. where yellow ..there not gonna play for this clown ..hes to dam shady and dont know what hes doing ..he soft…o im sorry SOFT!! cry me a river this will be like this for the next 3 years

  • November 3, 2009  - ED says:

    To those who are on the Cowher train like he’s some kind of savior please stop living in fantasy world. Fact is if we had Vince Lombari or Hank Straham himself we would still be losing its about talent right now people not coaching. You can’t judge any coach fairly until he at least have enough talent to win. Clearly we don’t. Bob glad you finally pointed it out. We have lack of talent at offensive line. We have to have one of the worst offensive line in the NFL. That is clearly the reason behind the negative plays.

    Haley is just going to have to get creative to cover up some of the lack of talent at the o-line position. We also lack talent at the receiver position Chambers since he’s a free agent would be a great pick. He’s certainly alot better than what we have right now.

  • November 3, 2009  - Alexthe"GREAT" says:

    Tim…u say I dont do my homework…I dont have 2 b/c I have coached football for many many years and can see the talent and over hyped players on this team. But i will not engage in an argument with u only time will tell who is right. But if I was the GM, I wouldnt have signed Cassel 2 a long term deal until he had proven his worth. Tim due your homework it is documented that Pioli wanted Pollard suspended for the hit on Brady….ever since they took over Pioli has been on his ass,read between the lines and stop being naive buddy!

  • November 3, 2009  - Tim says:

    “Alex”, The “Tim” that is going back & forth with you IS NOT the “Tim” that made the first post by “Tim” in this string…I only commended Bob on a great article & asked he perhaps do one on the blocking schemes we’re employing, etc. Another “Tim” hasn’t differentiated himself from me, so I shall from him. I’ll post under TimR now…

  • November 3, 2009  - arrowhead1978 says:

    gorillafan, i wasn’t negative last year, I was kinda happy waiting for the rebuilding to start producing. Yea the chiefs sucked last year, they had basically all rookies playing, they were young, and competing, they had chances to win games though. The chiefs this year are way worse than last years team because of the fact that this years players aren’t nearly as young, they have been in the league, they are veterans and nothing is better about them. The players aren’t going to get better as they get older no matter what you read, aging does not make you better past your 30′s.
    I personally was looking forward to the rookies becoming veterans together and creating a dynasty for KC, but now all I see is a bunch of veterans playing badly and not winning, at least last year I saw progress from the team. The O-line was bad last year, but it got worse this year, the defense was bad last year, but it’s worse this year and all along with the veterans that were brought in here.

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