Kicking Struggles … Friday Cup O’Chiefs
Last year and this decade have featured big improvements in the success rate of NFL kickers. During the 2008 season, kickers set league records for accuracy in field goals and PATs.
This league-wide improvement has come without help from the Kansas City Chiefs.
While the rest of the league has become more accurate, kickers wearing the red and gold have been less accurate. Chiefs kickers had a much better field goal percentage in the 1980s and 1990s than they’ve had through the first nine seasons of this decade.
Including the ‘08 season, Chiefs kickers have made 186 of 242 field goal attempts, a success rate of 76.9 percent in this decade. Among the league’s 32 teams, that ranks 29th in accuracy. They’ve been nearly 10 percent less accurate than the league leader in this decade, Baltimore. Kickers for the Ravens have been successful on 86.2 percent of their field goals.
In the 100 best seasons for FG accuracy in this decade, the Chiefs have just one season on the list: the 2002 season when they made 23 of 27 attempts, for 85.2 percent; that ranked 85th.
In the 100 best individual seasons for FG accuracy in this decade, the Chiefs have just one kicker on the list: Morten Andersen, who made 22 of 26 FG attempts for 84.6 percent; that ranked 96th in the league.
Here are the ugly numbers for Chiefs kickers this decade:
| Season | FGM | FGA | FG % | KICKERS |
|
2008 |
16 |
22 |
72.7 |
N. Novak, C. Barth |
|
2007 |
19 |
27 |
70.4 |
J. Medlock, D. Rayner, J. Carney |
|
2006 |
24 |
31 |
77.4 |
L. Tynes |
|
2005 |
27 |
33 |
81.8 |
L. Tynes |
|
2004 |
17 |
23 |
73.9 |
L. Tynes |
|
2003 |
16 |
20 |
80.0 |
M. Andersen |
|
2002 |
23 |
27 |
85.2 |
M. Andersen, M. Husted |
|
2001 |
27 |
35 |
77.1 |
T. Peterson |
|
2000 |
17 |
24 |
70.8 |
P. Stoyanovich, T. Peterson |
That’s 10 different FG kickers in nine seasons and six in the last three years. The most stable kicker for the team in this decade was Lawrence Tynes. The Chiefs traded Tynes before the 2007 season to the New York Giants because they were looking for a more consistent kicker on FGs and a stronger leg for kickoffs.
It was a move that’s proven to be a mistake, given the kicking circus the Chiefs have gone through the last two seasons with five different kickers handling field goals. The group of Justin Medlock, Dave Rayner, John Carney, Nick Novak and Connor Barth made 35 of 49 FGs or 71.4 percent. Tynes hit 68 of 87 kicks for 78.2 percent.
Turnover at the position has been a problem for the Chiefs in this decade. In the 1990s, the Chiefs basically had three kickers: Pete Stoyanovich, Lin Elliott and Nick Lowery. It was all Lowery in the 1980s. Before that, Jan Stenerud handled the 1970s and the second-half of the 1960s.
Here’s how the FG kicking went down by decades for the franchise:
| Decade |
G |
FGM |
FGA |
FG% |
PATM |
PATA |
PAT% |
| 2000s |
144 |
186 |
242 |
76.9 |
368 |
374 |
98.4 |
| 1990s |
160 |
245 |
292 |
83.9 |
360 |
366 |
98.4 |
| 1980s |
152 |
227 |
292 |
77.7 |
335 |
339 |
98.8 |
| 1970s |
144 |
201 |
326 |
61.7 |
272 |
287 |
94.8 |
| 1960s |
140 |
164 |
298 |
55.0 |
22 |
436 |
96.8 |
In the 1980s and 1990s the Chiefs had the best FG percentage in the league in both decades. In the 1970s, they were 14th and in the 1960s they ranked eighth.
So what’s been the recent problem? Why are they now ranked among the worst teams in the league for this decade?
Not unlike a lot of other teams, the Chiefs have struggled to find a consistent kicker. There have been good and bad decisions made along the way. The selection of Medlock in the fifth round of the 2007 NFL Draft proved to be a mistake, as he could not mentally handle the job. Getting rid of Tynes before there was a worthy replacement was a mistake. But the signing of Andersen in 2002 and the trade that brought Stoyanovich to the team in 1996 proved to be good moves.
Over the years, the most controversial move was the departure of Lowery after the 1993 season. As has been the case over the years, Carl Peterson has been treated as the villain in this story. The facts are these: Lowery and the Chiefs agreed to terms on a contract for the 1994 season. The next day, Lowery backed out of the deal and went to New York to sign with the Jets. Lowery did not want to face competition to keep the job, feeling that after 14 seasons he should concentrate on getting ready for the season, rather than competing in the pre-season.
With the exception of when it counted most, Lowery’s replacement was more than adequate. In two seasons with the team (1994-95), Elliott made 81.7 percent of his FG attempts. None of that matters in the shadow of him going wide right from 35 yards, wide left from 39 yards and then wide left from 42 yards against the Colts in a 1995 AFC Divisional Game in the playoffs. The Chiefs lost that game 10-7, after going 13-3 during the regular season with one of the NFL’s best defenses.
Next to the Christmas Day game in 1971 that loss to the Colts ranks as the most devastating in franchise history.
If the Chiefs are going to return to winning, they must stabilize the position and join the rest of the NFL in enjoying improved accuracy and production.
SIGNINGS & MOVEMENT AROUND THE LEAGUE
CARDINALS – signed third-round draft choice S Rashad Johnson; released WR Shane Morales.
JAGUARS – signed fourth-round draft choice WR Mike Thomas.
LIONS – released LB Alex Lewis.
SAY HAPPY BIRTHDAY …
Born on July 10, 1962 in Chicago was DE Don Thorp. He joined the Chiefs in 1988 and played three games that season. Thorp was out of the University of Illinois and played three seasons in the NFL.
I wonder…how does the vast improvement from the rest of the league coincide with all the new stadiums that have been built? Did that effect the kicking game? We’ve said before that the wind patterns in Arrowhead make it difficult on kickers. How much more difficult is it at Arrowhead compared to the rest of the league? Do kickers that play with teams in indoor stadiums generally have a better kicking percentage?
And remember: Don’t feed the idiot Troll that will soon show up.
“Don’t feed the idiot Troll that will soon show up.”
-Your father will feed her. He has the entire time they’ve been married.
Heh Heh Heh
Reference Lawrence Tynes, PAT & 2-point plays…
Yesterday another blogger referenced the PAT (point after touchdown) kick being ‘automatic’ in essence; that blogger obviously never saw Tynes try PATs for Kaycee, regular season or post.
Tynes missed 4 PATs in 3 years with KC during the regular season as well as another PAT post season vs IND. He’s also missed two more in the same year after with the NYG.
So ‘nothing’ is or has been automatic about the PAT kick for the Chiefs. One former Chief you really never hear about - Tommy Brooker - for years held the KC record for consecutive PATs made & in fact never missed even 1 during his entire career here of 5 years; that’s a claim that neither former Chiefs Ks Jan Stenerud or Nick Lowery can make.
Too, that former SF 49′r Tommy Davis was already playing in his 7th NFL campaign before he missed his first PAT in 1965 reaffirms what Rin has said regards yesteryear’s players … today’s ‘modern’ same have NOTHING on yesteryears in many ways and in fact take a back seat to the vintage guys.
This has been a Real Rin Tin Tin daddy-o authenticated blog, mssrs. ’search’ and ‘check’ affirming.
Unlike fake’ Rin eyes blog, 2nd from the top,
I’m sorry, but clutch kicking, to me is more important than accuracy percentage. Lin Elliot could have made 99% of his field goals during the regular season, but to miss those three field goals in that playoff game against the Colts-and to miss them so badly-I’m sorry. Lin Elliot will NEVER be a good kicker in my book. The guy choked when it counted, not once, but THREE TIMES!
Hate to say it but timely kicking can make a huge difference in any game. Most NFL head coaches recognize it and keep trying to find the correct head case to kick. It amazes me any kicker can lose his mind and ability to kick all at the same time. It seems like fundamental the same swing over and over, like golf, but when their mind gets messed up forget it.
Carl Peterson was the villian in the Chiefs kicking fiascos. Nick Lowry shouldn’t have needed to compete for his job and that simple concession probably would have kept him a Chief. One has to wonder about the Colts game with Lowry kicking for the Chiefs rather than Elliott.
Drafting Medlock and leaving one of the best college kickers of all time (Mason Crosby) on the board for the Packers was ridiculous. Once more reason to rely on production and not on draft workouts. Thanks Carl and Squerm.
what isnt addressed is special teams coaching during the Herm years. Medlock was an accurate kicker in college. The chiefs decided to mess with his mechanics resulting in a lousy kicker.
Tynes went on to have success (and a superbowl win with clutch kicks) in New York.
John Carney went on to the probowl after being 35 of 28 kicks in NY in 2008 (he was with the chiefs in 2007)
Morten Anderson went on to make 89% of his field goals in the 2007 season.
So if many of these players are having success AFTER they leave KC, it begs the question: “What is KC doing to screw them up?”
–correction–
Carney made 35 of 38 kicks in 2007
I’m sure Bob will tell us its the “swirling winds” at Arrowhead that messes up our kickers. haha
To me the chiefs have never had a kicker that could kick off & make field goals . Seems we could find one but not both . We have been searching for that since the 90s. At the time Wilson / Stenaurd was the best we have ever had . What troll ? Heh Heh
While we castigate Lin Elliott for his missed field goals, and yes, to miss THREE is certainly inexcusable, those of us who were there, watched or listened to the “infamous” Christmas Day game in 1971 will remember that the great Jan Stenerud missed a make-able field goal in OT. If memory serves, it was at the start of the second OT after a great return by Ed Podolak.
Interesting isn’t it, that missed field goals contributed to two of the most heartbreaking losses in franchise history.
The most important position on the team? Arguably: #1 is…QB
#2 is…..LT
#3 is…..CB
And, on down the list we go. Where does the K position rank in a priority listing of positions? (This might explain why the Chiefs have sucked behind the league standard for Kickers these past many seasons).
Yes the only time the chiefs win the SB Iam in the Marines dodging bullets . Well I live long enough to be /see it again. I just have a feeling that I just might with Pioli / Hailey its like a fresh breeze has blew the stench away .
I wonder what the percentage is for kickers from visiting teams at Arrowhead vs their percentage the rest of the time.
And a friendly reminder: Don’t feed the idiot Troll.
Harold C.,
You go on and on about Rin, but your posts are usually no better.
Even Nick was short from 49 yards on the kick that would have won the playoff game in Miami nearly 20 years ago, but I agree with aPauled. Carl is not absolved. Nick should not have had to compete for the job and he would have made at least 2 out of 3 of those kicks against Indy.
Well….according to Bob’s article yesterday Nick was lousy by today’s standards and would have trouble even making the team. It’s easy to say Nick should not have had to compete for the job after seeing the results of Lin E. but at the time I’m sure it made sense. A little competition never hurt anybody….except for the ones that are no longer good enough.
And a friendly reminder: Don’t feed the idiot Troll. (I’m following my own advice right now)
Carl wants to defend his tenure with the chiefs . While he did get close in fact 20yrs should be enough time to achieve that goal . To achieve a HF career most players want that SB ring to finish that. Iam sure that its no different for G.M.s/Coaches/Owners . Some team wins ever year while I haven’t done the math for 20yrs > seems that you really shouldn’t have any excuse . Year after year it seems the same teams playing in the SB why ? ? It cant be just luck we have to look at the( Real ) reason why . Changes were made at the coaching level so we can rule that out > cant we.What was the true constant in 20yrs with the chiefs > the G.M. We even change ownership in that time .
Harold C. that wasn’t this anom. How does it go green eyes yes that’s it…
KC#9-
We should remember the fact that Nick MADE his first attempt, but it was called back because that giant oaf Dave Szott was flagged for holding. Nick missed the second attempt, but he shouldn’t have ever even had to attempt it.
Harold,
Regardless of how “average” or “below average” Nick the Kick is by today’s standards, the fact of the matter is, he was mentioned in the same breath with “Stoyanovich” and “Stenerud” at the time he cut ties with the Chiefs. At the time, he was automatic, lights out, one of the best in the game. He SHOULDN’T have had to compete against anyone…unless the Chiefs had picked Stoyanovich up off of waivers at the time and not years later.
King Carl’s massive ego and black leather coat got in the way of negotiations (how often did that happen?!) and ultimately, hurt our (legitimate) chances at a Super Bowl run two years later.
Well if Nick was so good he should not have worried about a little competition. Maybe he was worried he would lose. I don’t know….it’s just an ego thing I guess. Anyway….we didn’t win a Super Bowl with him and we didn’t win a Super Bowl without him….or even get to one….so it’s all irrelevant anyway.
“King Carl’s massive ego and black leather coat got in the way of negotiations (how often did that happen?!) and ultimately, hurt our (legitimate) chances at a Super Bowl run two years later.”
Are you sure about that? If we kept Nick it could have changed things earlier in the season. Nobody knows what would have really happened. Were there any games that were decided by a field goal earlier in the year? What was Lin’s kicking range compared to Nick’s? Would the coaches have made different decisions if we kept Nick? It’s really all just speculation and is not really knowable.
I was 14 yrs old & remember watching that fateful game on TV Christmas Day 1971.(In Color) It was a chip shot by Jan’s standards at the time. He was a great clutch kicker and we all assumed he would make it. It was a very long game with a devastating result. We were all thinking Superbowl here we come. Not…
Not since Joe Montana’s run in the AFC championship game have I been so let down.
Kickers, God bless them… have a huge mental challenge in any given week.
Love em or Hate em. Athletes or not. They are the true game changers & they get my respect.
Harold,
I’m not going to argue speculation with you. I do know what NFL lore will say and that is that Lin Elliot was a choke artist and now sells insurance in Dallas. He missed THREE EASY FIELD GOALS in one game and subsequently cost his #1 seeded team a run at the Super Bowl. Can’t say that about Nick the Kick, can you?
One more thing about Lowery, I know I never felt like I had to sit on the edge of my seat and pray the ball through the uprights when he was sent in to kick…I always felt that way about Elliot. That guy was a headcase and you could see that from section 303 row 35.
Don’t feed the idiot Troll or her son Harold C.
Steve DeBerg 4 Life!
Anonymous said
“To me the chiefs have never had a kicker that could kick off & make field goals.”
- to you, the world - as your head - be flat.
Jan Stenerud often kicked the ball some 70+ yards into the fence ‘behind’ the end zone at Municipal Stadium; as he is the only pure K in the NFL HOF, appears he did both exceptionally well.
Leave it to Rin to continue His edification of the rabble that frequent this blogdom…
This had been a Real Rin daddy-o blog - ’search’ & ‘check’ affirming.
Real Rin daddy-o > > ‘fake’ with the eyes rin, who has now referenced Harold C. twice today.
Harold, looks as if ‘fake’ rin has a woodie for you now, as Real Rin has continued to emasculate ‘fake’ rin daily…
If you well reread my post I said since Wilson & Stenerud . We had both then that is why both should be in the HF.
I am more interesting to read than the Real Rin Tin Tin.
Anonymous said
“If you well reread my post”
- “if you WELL reread? Wull, ey’ll tri.
More problems in getting your broken English from hatrack (your head) to keyboard (a 1980s WANG) to blog; try https://www.stuttering.org.
“I said since Wilson & Stenerud . We had both then that is why both should be in the HF.”
- no, you said nothing of the sort. Whether you thought it or not, twas NOT what you said. Here below is your original post Mr. Einstein:
**July 10, 2009 - Anonymous says:
‘To me the chiefs have never had a kicker that could kick off & make field goals .’
- you said NEVER… capiche?
“Seems we could find one but not both .”
- wrong again: we had Stenerud & Wilson at the same time.
“We have been searching for that since the 90s.”
- Stenerud & Wilson played in the 60’s & 70’s for KC…so we’ve been searching since the 70’s to be accurate.
“At the time Wilson / Stenaurd was the best we have ever had .”
- ‘at the time’ the ‘best we ever had’?
Cue Aflac duck shaking his head at your Yogi Berra-isms. “AH-HA?! AF-LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAC!!!”
No Anonymous, you are unable to coherently place thoughts together, that be one of your problems…
“What troll ? Heh Heh”
- Anonymous.. Real Rin daddy-o is well aware that ‘you’ are one of the ‘fake’ rins…
Keep trying…
Harold C.
I have found a website that deals with your every day life:
failblog.org
Heh Heh Heh
my boyfriend broke up with me, I am sad today
’search’ - “Herm is a > > coach than you are ‘check’ ”
‘check’ - “I agree. And Carl was a much better GM than you ’search’
’search’ “I agree with you. Together, we are two losers, so there’s no waiting.”
‘jr’ - “I agree with the both of you; should have never accepted Herm and Carl’s resignations. By the way, that other member of your stooge-dom, ‘fake’ rin - why? is he so jealous of Real Rin?
& - “That’s because daddy-o out-thinks, out-blogs & out-wits him every time.”
This has been a Real Rin daddy-o blog! As always friends, you can tell that it’s a Real Rin blog by His seal of authentication.
(’fake’ rin can’t find the right key combo on his 1980s WANG computer…heh heh heh.)
Keep trying!
Real Rin Tin Tin and I are one in the same. Don’t be confused. Don’t feed Harold C.’s mom!
Game, set, match…Real Rin daddy-o
heh heh heh!
Another Real Rin daddy-o blog…
What K missed more PATs (points after TD) than anyone in Texans/Chiefs franchise history?
a) Nick Lowery
b) Tommy Brooker
c) Jan Stenerud
d) Ben Agajanian
e) Lin Elliott
f) ‘fake’ rin
ANSWER: c) - HOF PK Jan Stenerud (if we counted all ‘fake’ rin’s swings & misses here on Bob G’s blog, would win in a landslide.)
Jan missed 15 PATs in his KC career - 6 of them actually came during a single season, 1976.
For his 19 year NFL career, Jan actually missed 21 regular season PATs - leaving the equivalent of 3 TDS unrequited; for the sake of comparison the worst a Lin Elliott ever did was to miss 3 PATs regular season ‘95.
Real Rin eats my farts.
is starting to ‘crack’ (his plumbers) under the pressure…try harder to find those key combos ‘fake’ Rin!
heh heh heh!
Thanks for all the smiley faces. Makes it that much easier to identify the blogs that no one wants to read!
The Chiefs should never have let Carney walk last year. Field goal accuracy is more important than kickoff distance any day. Plus, our defense was so god-awful that it didn’t matter WHERE the opponent started, they’d find a way to score a TD on us anyway.
You’re welcome ‘fake’ rin aka colby cheese…
This has been another Real Rin daddy-o blog!
colby,
Yeah i agree, especially when we had NO ONE to replace him.
No “fake” BS here. What you see is what you get: a double-dose of “cheese” to go along with your green-eyed “wine”. I’m still championing the username addition this site so desperately needs. I can’t stand all of this fake poster crap either. I’ve never been a fan of yours Rin, but I’d rather have your posts than whoever this phony is.
[...] Chiefs News Chiefs Update | Chiefs Football at BobGretz.com [...]
Colby,
Did you know that Vanessa Carlton’s song “A Thousand Miles” was inspired by the distance Steve DeBerg kicked her boyfriend after he stepped on Steve’s snakeskin boots?
I am absolutely stunned that anyone would think that Lowery should not have had to compete for his job. Without competition we would not have athletes. If a player gets his feelings hurt because he has to compete for his pay then I don’t want that player on my team no matter how good he is. If the Colts had a QB they believed could play as well as Manning I would sure as hell hope they would have a competition. In the world of professional sports there is no such thing as tenure, just pack up your millions and move on.
Your right, its prof sports. You WILL have competition across the line of scrimmage and on the same side as you. Athletes need to deal with it.
You all need to deal with the fact that Steve DeBerg is God.
Sorting through all the ‘Rin’ flak, (I’m at a loss to understand all the reprise posts), but onward to:
Colby. Good post on accuracy being more important than distance, vis a vis, Carney and I do agree but in this gotta have it all NFL world, the teams do want it all:
Accuracy to the tune of 85%+
Distance (On Kick offs as well as FG attempts)
FG: Automatic from 40 in. 80% from, 50 in? (about that).
Kick offs: 85% to the 5 and in. 95% to the 10 and in.
Based on those stats, the Chiefs are waaaay back in the pack. It’s a credit to better kickers/conditioning/training/mental acuity and all that but the quest for the above…CONTINUES.
God, I cant wait till training camp starts! Please forgive all the fake posters for ruining these discussions, Amen.
colby said
“I’m still championing the username addition this site so desperately needs.”
- good, we’ve consensus…
“I can’t stand all of this fake poster crap either.”
- consensus x2…
“I’ve never been a fan of yours Rin”
- aww… and we were getting along so famously, Real Rin playing His part the ‘Lone Ranger’ and you my ‘Tont(el)o(ne’)
“but”
- (drumroll - cue Pee Wee Herman from ‘Simone’s Big But’ scene: “Pee Wee’s Big Adventure”)
“I’d rather have your posts than whoever this phony is.”
- hmm, preference ‘fake’ rin or colby posts? or colby … can I get back to you on this one? (rimshot/CYMBAL CRASH!!!)
This has been yet another Real Rin daddy-o post, ’search’ & ‘check’ affirming.
I would have no problem carrying 2 kickers if Succup doesn’t prove accurate enough on FG’s. Barth is extremely accurate, but just doesn’t have a strong leg. Succup has a cannon.
yeah I agree, rin isnt that bad anymore, the problem is the imposter posting that is getting out of hand. Its too bad, lets hope camp will turn this into an actual discussion of the chiefs.