Friday Morning Cup O’Chiefs
You have to wonder just what else the football gods plan to throw at Chiefs special teams coach Mike Priefer.
Last week, he had a new punter and new kicker.
This week to complete the trifecta, he has a new long snapper.
Nick Novak was released, Dustin Colquitt injured and J.P. Darche knocked out for the season with a knee injury.
Connor Barth, Steve Weatherford and Tom Gafford are in. It does not appear that Colquitt is going to be ready to kick this Sunday against Tampa Bay.
Some teams go seasons without replacing any one of those three key positions in the kicking game. Replacing two of the three happens even less.
But all three and after the season has started? It’s unheard of. But, it’s been that kind of season for the Chiefs.
There was a time when the team had the most stable of kicking groups. In fact, they are the only franchise in pro football history to have a kicking trio all enshrined in the Pro Football’s Hall 
of Fame.
The long snapper was Bobby Bell. The holder was Len Dawson. The kicker was Jan Stenerud.
From 1967 when Stenerud joined the team, through the 1974 season when Bell was the first of the three to retire, the Chiefs played 117 regular and post-season games. That trio was together for FGs and PATs for 105 of those games. The 12 games they missed came from injuries suffered by Dawson playing quarterback, not holding.
Even the punter was the same guy through all those years: Jerrel Wilson, who arrived in 1963 and punted through 1977.
Consider again that for seven seasons, the Chiefs had the same kicker, punter, holder and snapper for all but 12 games.
“Oh, it has to make a difference,” Dawson said. “Upset any part of the chain with a kicker and punter and they start to worry. They have all that time on the sidelines to worry and think about things.
“If the holder changes or the snapper changes, they start thinking. That’s never good.”
Dawson understood exactly what Stenerud wanted when it came to a hold and placement of the ball. He said he never worried about Bell because his snaps were perfect 99 percent of the time. “He was so consistent,” Dawson said of Bell’s deep snapping. “As a punter, you could tell him you wanted the ball aimed at your thigh, your belt buckle, your belly button and he would put it there.”
And what would Dawson expect to see from Gafford, Weatherford and Barth this Sunday against Tampa Bay?
“You can practice all you want, but until you put people in the stands, the wind blowing through the stadium and a team on the other side trying to block the kick, you just don’t know,” Dawson said. “It should be interesting.”
FROM THE PAGES OF CHIEFS HISTORY
On October 31, 1965, the Chiefs beat the Oakland Raiders 14-7 in front of 18,354 fans at Municipal Stadium. This defensive affair was settled in the fourth quarter on a one-yard TD run by QB Len Dawson. The teams combined for less than 400 offensive yards. The Chiefs defense held Oakland to 163 yards thanks to seven sacks. WR Chris Burford caught a 19-yard TD pass from Dawson for Kansas City’s other score.
On October 31, 1993, the Chiefs lost 30-10 to the Dolphins at Joe Robbie Stadium in Miami. The Fins were led by QB Scott Mitchell, who had a big day throwing for 344 yards and three touchdown passes. Mitchell found WR Irving Fryar for 27 yards, FB Keith Byars for 8 yards and WR Mark Ingram for 77 yards. The Chiefs only touchdown came on a six-yard pass from QB Dave Krieg to TE Keith Cash. QB Joe Montana started that game, but left with a hamstring injury. So did RB Harvey Williams who was carried off the field immobilized when he could not get up after his second fumble of the day.
OPPONENT NEXT/TAMPA BUCCANEERS
 RB Michael Bennett isn’t getting much of a chance to play in Tampa Bay, and he would like more action.
Notes & quotes from BucsLand.
AROUND THE LEAGUE
NFL players said in a survey they would like to play for Herm Edwards before all but three other head coaches in the NFL.
Mike Singletary’s first game as an NFL head coach got a lot of attention afterwards, but now he’s back in the news for what he did at half-time. You’ve got to read this one.
AROUND THE AFC WEST
Raiders QB JaMarcus Russell is more at home when the Raiders are at home.
In San Diego, they say that TE Antonio Gates is starting to show he’s recovered from his injuries and is back to his old form, which was pretty darn good.
Out in Denver, they are still ravaging about their rookie receiver Eddie Royal.
regarding players who want to play for Herm: bet they did not poll or were not powered statistically to assess feelings of kickers or quarterbacks. Kickers are released after a miss, and Herm is a card carrying member of the quarterback killing coaches club.
~kickers are released after a miss~…..if you are referring to Nick Novak, it was by far more than 1 miss. What was his hit/miss record this year?
Novak was only hitting 60 percent this year.
He hit 6 out of 10
This season for the Chiefs was born on the dark side of the moon, obviously. Injuries galore, LJ’s adventures in nightclubbing, QB by committee and on it goes.
I think if a player fell off the bench this Sunday and literally busted his ass, Herm would probably shrug and say, “Cinch”.
http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/10/30/between-the-lines-alan-faneca-takes-glenn-dorsey-to-school
good read on Dorsey’s matchup with Alan Faneca in the jets game.
Yea and Medlock last year had a poor preseason followed by a poor opening regular season game.
findthedr,
That was an interesting read. That, on top of watching Brian Baldinger completely rip Dorsey’s performance recently on the NFL Network, is a little depressing. DT’s can take some time to develop, but it’s been brutal so far for Glenn.
So what are your thoughts? Bad scheme? Bad coaching? Just needs more time? I know we’ve talked about Dorsey before and I expressed the opinion that maybe expectations of him were too high.
Sounds like the Herm Apologists are getting their latest ducks in a row. Herm tried to blame it on injuries his last year in New York. Luckily for them, they were finally smart enough to see through it. I just hope it doesn’t take Clark 5 years too.
If Glenn Dorsey doesn’t get dominated by Faneca at this point in their careers, there is something seriously wrong. He has played 6 games people. Calling him a bust is absolutely rediculous.
I still believe we need a new D-line coach
re:
October 31, 2008 - ILChiefsFan says:
“That was an interesting read. That, on top of watching Brian Baldinger completely rip Dorsey’s performance recently on the NFL Network, is a little depressing. DT’s can take some time to develop, but it’s been brutal so far for Glenn.”
IlCF,
A few days ago in his column, Whitlock theorized that Dorsey had one leg injured during his senior year at LSU and the other one, the good one, injured earlier this season (perhaps in training camp? I can’t recall but do remember it).
He went on to conclude something on the order of that Dorsey has yet to reclaim 100% health status and that factor may explain his pedestrian play so far this year. Seems to make sense but no one within the organization is saying anything along these lines.
And so, we have yet another log to throw onto the fire of this uncertain season. FYI
If Dorsey was playing hurt, we’d probably be hearing it from Herm “it’s not my fault” Edwards. He’s already repeatedly used Tamba Hali’s knee problems as an excuse for our terrible DL play.
dakotadave says:
If Glenn Dorsey doesn’t get dominated by Faneca at this point in their careers, there is something seriously wrong. He has played 6 games people. Calling him a bust is absolutely rediculous.
Totally agree dakotadave. Let’s remember people, Faneca received 8 mil a year to play for the Jets. He’s one of the highest paid players at his position and has been to numerous Pro Bowls. Consider this a learning experience for Dorsey. The article above did point out that when Dorsey made a mistake defending a screen, he came back and made the play the next time the Jets tried it. I believe he is learning and getting better.
It’s been said numerous times here by myself and others that Houston fans considered Mario Williams a bust when he struggled his rookie year. Then in his second year he dominated and continues to dominate now in his third year. It sounds like Dorsey is hustling on most every play and working hard to get better. If he is getting dominated next year there may be cause for alarm, but let’s give him a little time.
There is some extra pressure on Dorsey to succeed however because Kuharich said the Saints offered a 7th round pick in 2008 and their 1st rounder in 2009 to swap picks and move up from the 10th spot. With all our problems, an extra 1st next year would have been nice regardless of how well the Saints finish. Time will tell if we made the right call, but I will go on record as saying that even though I liked the Dorsey pick, I would have taken that trade for the extra 1st in a heartbeat. What do you guys think?
Tough crowd, tough crowd…regards Dorsey/Faneca -OG vs DT
Alternately, in 1967 when the roles were reversed and the Chiefs had the All Pro (DT Buck Buchanan) and the Raiders had their highly acclaimed rookie (OG Gene Upshaw) they & the teams played 3 games that season against each other.
Game 1: Buchanan blew past Upshaw ‘SIX’ times for sacks or backfield stops in a 48-0 KC wipeout of the Raiders.
Game 2: Buchanan got past Upshaw just ‘ONCE’ in a 23-21 Raider victory over defending AFL Champion Chiefs.
Game 3: With KCs hopes of repeating as Champions on the line, Upshaw STONED Buchanan, and did not allow Buck to get past him (Gene) even once. OAK blasted KC 44-22 on Thanksgiving Day…the Chiefs were the turkeys, OAK went on to Superbowl II.
I’ve read that Jason Whitlock (storied NFL great offensive lineman and also supposedly a coumnist)
has already (in essence) written off Glen Dorsey, but then he also hasn’t seen on the field action close up since about the short side of…oh, 350 his, preferring instead the comfortable if vision impaired vantage point press box, disadvantageous as it be due to errant BBQ stains.
Dorsey? Give him time. Neil Smith was called an utter failure after his first season in KC…he rebounded rather nicely. Stay tuned…
“So what are your thoughts? Bad scheme? Bad coaching? Just needs more time? I know we’ve talked about Dorsey before and I expressed the opinion that maybe expectations of him were too high.”
1. He’s a rookie who has gone from being the top dawg in college to being thrown around. That has to be humbling. He needs NFL conditioning and coaching.
2. Definately bad coaching. Opposing players have been saying all yr that our Dlineman have 1 move and that is it…but we knew that Dorsey had limited pass rush moves when we got him (though that can be taught). On both sides of the ball we are just lining up and playing ’smashmouth’ football, instead of scheming to provide favorable matchups.
3. Everyone says that Dorsey is the ideal 3 technique, and that is how the chiefs want to use him but have had him ‘take up blockers’ so far. In that case, Dorsey and Tank should switch positions this year.
4. Just ‘giving’ Dorsey the starting position this year was a huge mistake, IMO. They traded giving Dorsey experience at the expense of production. Boone was our best DT last yr and did well in the 3technique (consistently being able to penetrate). The chiefs moved him to LDE, he lost weight for that role, and now they moved him back. It is amazing that they still havent fully figured out how to best utilize their lineman.
5. Instead of ‘quantity’ of snaps the chiefs should have gone for ‘quality’ of snaps. Against the Jets he played 48 of 66 snaps. Dont you think that is going to tire a lineman, might as well a rookie? Its not like we dont have adequate backups (who were previously starters). I think Dorsey could have been even more ‘productive’ in a more limited role this year.
In the longterm, I am convinced that dorsey will one day be a probowler. History shows that winning the awards that he won in college was no fluke and those award winners do really well. He essentially swept all the major defensive awards.
Rin Tin Tin says:
“Tough crowd, tough crowd…regards Dorsey/Faneca -OG vs DT”
if you want to see a true role reversal look at how well the rookie 1st round Olineman are playing for their teams. Jake Long, Clady, Albert, Baker and others are pretty much dominating the defenders they have played against.
dakotadave says:
“Let’s remember people, Faneca received 8 mil a year to play for the Jets. He’s one of the highest paid players at his position”
I’m pretty sure Glen Dorsey is one of the higest paid players at his position too and is among the highest paid chiefs.
I wouldn’t worry too much about Dorsey yet. Remember that Mario Williams was the number 1 choice for Houston in 2006. Fans were screaming that he was a bust after 4.5 sacks his rookie season. 2007 he jumped to 14 and this year he is averaging 1 per game so far. He was quoted in a Houston Chronicle article as saying he just had to get comfortable playing in the NFL. Might not be totally similar situations, but then again, they might be. Hard to judge any rookie after 7 games.
TIME OUT ! HAS LARRY WHAT ? REALLY NOTHING MORE THAN NOT BEING POLITE . I HOPE THIS IS NOTHING MORE THAN WHAT IT IS . SOME CUTIE THAT CANT BUY HER OWN DRINK . OR , HAS SOMEONE PUT THESE GIRLS UP TO SOMETHING , WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST TIME . BY THE WAY DID ANY GET HURT (not including feelings).
Just a tidbit here. Not making excuses for our team but our opponents combined record so far is 32-18. That’s a pretty tough schedule. Our remaining opponents combined record (including TB) is 29-39. That’s skewed a little as Cincinnati is 0-8. So subtract them and it’s 29-31. Still under 500 though. Perhaps we’ll see better football as the season goes on?
Buchanan vs. Upshaw has to be one of the greatest clashes of lineman in the history of the sport! It helps that the Chiefs Raiders rivalry is piled on top of that already epic matchup.
I feel the need to say, as I’ve said before, that I’m not calling Dorsey a bust. I’m just saying his progress so far is a cause for concern, and asking for opinions about causes. I’m eagerly waiting for him to start asserting himself.
dakotadave and Colby - I can’t resist the urge to point out that Dorsey doesn’t play Alan Faneca every week.
I’d never heard about that Saints deal. An extra #1? I would have taken it in a minute.
As for comparisons, Mario Williams certainly didn’t get the sacks expected his rookie season, but overall he played pretty well. Being taken #1 over Reggie Bush caused a lot of that controversy.
Finally, Rin, you have the advantage of a prodigious memory. I had forgotten how mediocre Neil Smith looked his 1st couple of seasons. (And, by the way, I care not a whit for Whitlock).
Colby,
I agree about the schedule. It’s been brutal.
Before the Jets game I really thought we’d see 4-5 wins over the last 10 games. Certainly it’s still possible, IF our run defense continues to improve.
With our luck, though, San Diego will have all their defensive problems worked out by the time we play them.
- ILChiefsFan says:
With our luck, though, San Diego will have all their defensive problems worked out by the time we play them.
Yes, San Diego is still scary as hell even though they are the most pathetically inconsistent team I’ve seen in years. When factoring our upcoming opponents win loss record San Diego’s subpar 3-5 is in there twice. They are the best bad team I’ve ever seen!
ILChiefsfan says:
dakotadave and Colby - I can’t resist the urge to point out that Dorsey doesn’t play Alan Faneca every week.
You are correct on that. However, even a middle of the road lineman is still probably better than 9 out of 10 of the guys that were trying to block him in college. I totally respect your concern about Dorsey and I share it with you, believe me. All I’m saying is that I have faith he’ll be better next season and that he may improve quite a bit before the year is done. We’ll just have to wait and see.
It is always easy to write off most any player in the NFL. Many fail, as we so well know. Dorsey will improve, he just has not shown any improvement so far after a third of the season. When you consider the defense as a whole (hole), during the last four games the other team offense have either set a record for total yards or second best in team history. I have no idea how to fix this trend but am pretty sure hiring Bunting for defensive side coaching is not a good answer, talk about the old boy circiut.
Time for another flashback…(fancy colours, etc.)
Will also add that Buck Buchanan (tho he was the #1 draft choice of KC in 1963, and a well as the 265th and a 19th round pick of the NFL NY Giants) demonstrated more ‘potential’ as a rookie than production, i.e., Dorsey.
Flashes? Probably a few more to date than Dorsey, although at 6′7 276 which he was at the time, ol’ Junious was harder to miss than ‘Stubby’ Dorsey.
Buchanan bcame Chiefs MVP in 1965, his 3rd year.
By 1966 he was a real terror and by 1967 he was in the opinion many the best DT in all football (w/apologies to Merlin Olsen & Bob Lilly, latter whom KC also drafted in 1961 but lost to the Cowboys - imagine Lilly AND Buck side by side!)
Alas, tho Buck was great through his ‘69 season, he thence began a slow slide yearly (KC in fact actually considered trading Buck after the 1970 season.) Though he played a long time (13 years through 1975), my point is his ‘best’ years were his 3rd through 7th.
As s huge fan of Buck’s, I knew the end was near in 1974, when I saw SD Chargers OG Doug Wilkerson deposit Buck on his *** - PANCAKE- which I’d seen NO ONE do afore then. Buck was by then down to 254 lbs, down from his 270-275 since 1969, and down further from his listed 287 in his prime (though Buck admitted he at times reached 300.) At the end, Buck’s legs were gone, and his were spindly to begin with, supporting a huge upper torso.
In 1967, Buck & Ernie Ladd (6′9 300 then, down from about 325 earlier) formed an imposing DT combo. Alas, Ernie was near the end & had lost most of his effectiveness. In their prime had they been paired, that twosome would have truly wreaked some havoc.
If Dorsey is better than Ryan Sims & less than Buck Buchanan, he’ll be a good NFL lineman. Rin is gonna wait a while longer…
Thing about Faneca is prior to the Chief game, Jet fans were ripping him a new *******, as he has been severely underperforming his contract.
Dorsey has been playing horribly, period. It’s FAR too early to use the B word, but to not acknowledge his horrific play, and be worried about it, is sticking your head in the sand.
Too, Tyler Thigpen was worse than a bust - he was a never was/never will be - until last game vs NY and two td passes has him on track now for super-stardom. Oh, how quickly the tides a fandom twist in the wind…heh heh heh
Glen ‘busts’ through for a sack (or 2) this week or next and . . . my gawd, savior ours a D-line will have has arrived - Thigpen to the 2nd power!
John Randle was a free agent…Otis Sistrunk too (College of Mars, OAK fans said)…Ryan Sims was not a free agent (he only played one on TV). Too, a few folk have wondered out loud if Dorsey is at his best position for success in the KC scheme of things.
Like this rebuilding project - also in year one as Dorsey - give it time. We’ve no other choice, for as Clark Hunt has affirmed: Herm’s The Man! (Carl too!)
heh heh heh
On the Dorsey article…I’ve never read this JJ Cooper before, so I don’t know how much stock to put in his reporting. He’s given to a bit of exaggeration, though, basically saying Dorsey got his arse handed to him. While Dorsey certainly wasn’t dominating anyone, he wasn’t exactly murdered either. I think you should believe your own eyes, and that’s not what I saw. Dorsey struggles at times, for sure, but he keeps fighting and learns; he battles to a draw a fair amount, too. Even when double-teamed, they have to work for it.
Unfortunately, Dorsey (and his other young line mates)have some things going against them.
I do agree with Mr. Cooper when he said, “The Chiefs ran only one stunt with Dorsey in 32 passing plays. When defensive linemen aren’t getting pressure by physically beating their man, stunts and twists can help someone get a free shot at the quarterback. In the Chiefs’ case, that isn’t happening.” In terms of scheme, this is another instance of the Chiefs going maddeningly vanilla. It’s just baffling (right up there with telegraphing their blitzes like a lighthouse on the shore). He also said it appears Chiefs defensive linemen only know how to bullrush, with no ripping, spinning or counter moves. Sounds like a need for some more coaching.
On top of that, Dorsey (and the rest of the DL) are playing on a rookie defensive line, except for Hali, who has all of a couple years behind him. And he is coping with the young line also. Tank and Turk are almost as rookie as Dorsey and Johnston, and not surprisingly, it shows. That’s why I was happy to see Boone and Edwards in more at DT. It helps the young guys and boosts the run D.
Given the situation Dorsey (and the other young DL)are in, I think I’ll wait quite a bit longer to finally evaluate how they are doing. Go back and look at some of Dorsey’s LSU work. He still has a good shot at becoming that in the NFL.