Defense: Some Good, Some Bad
From the Meadowlands in New Jersey
It was the type of matchup that a veteran quarterback loves to see: a veteran and gifted wide receiver against an inexperienced cornerback.
That was enough to tempt Brett Favre to make the throw that won his team the game: a 15-yard throw to wide receiver Laveranues Coles with one-minute to play that ended up in the end zone. The New York Jets win; the Chiefs go home with another disappointment.
There was a lot of disappointment for Favre on this day. He threw three interceptions, including one that was returned 91 yards by rookie cornerback Brandon Flowers for a touchdown. It wasn’t until the Chiefs final offense drive came up empty that the veteran quarterback was able to breathe easy.
Coles beat the Chiefs fourth cornerback on the play, Dimitri Patterson. He was in the game because veteran nickel back Patrick Surtain was on the sidelines with a quadriceps injury. In his third NFL season, Patterson has played far more special teams than he has defense.
But there really wasn’t much he could have done on the throw to Coles. He battled down the field with the receiver and there was contact several times. Patterson forced Coles to the outside and Favre threw the ball to the only place where it would have worked: behind Patterson. Coles reached back and caught the ball and got both feet in to the end zone.
“Where his alignment was, I was thinking an inside route,” said Patterson. “But this was Brett Favre and he makes those throws that you don’t think he will make. It was questionable at the point of attack whether he pushed off or not. But I have to make that play at the end of the day. I have to find a way to break up the pass.
“It was a good throw. A good catch.”
It was a not so good throw that had Favre in trouble to begin with. Midway through the fourth quarter, the Jets offense faced a third-and-two play from the Kansas City eight-yard line. That’s when Flowers grabbed his second interception of the day.
“It was a route they beat me with earlier in the game for a key first down,” said Flowers. “I saw the same motion that I saw earlier in the game and I just knew they couldn’t beat me on that route because it would have been a touchdown that close to the end zone.
“I made sure he (the receiver) didn’t get inside of me and I was able to make a play for the ball.”
And then he made quite a return, running untouched for 91 yards, including getting past Favre who was the only New York player with a shot at tackling him.
“I had a little bit of my legs left,” said Flowers. “The monkey didn’t jump on my back until the 20-yard line, so I wasn’t too worried about him.”
It was the longest INT return for the Chiefs since Kevin Ross took one back for 99 yards against the San Diego Chargers in September of 1992.
Besides the two Flowers picks, S Jarrad Page had the other interception. DE Tamba Hali got a sack of Favre, as the Chiefs were finally able to show some pass rush pressure. Several times in the first half, Hali broke down Favre’s pocket and got his hands on the quarterback.
But two continuing problems were visible again with the defense: they gave up a long run and there were too many missed tackles. Jets RB Leon Washington ran 60 yards for a touchdown on a draw play. One of the few Chiefs defenders with a chance to tackle him was S Bernard Pollard. But he took a bad angle and Washington roared past him.
In the end, the Jets finished with 135 yards rushing, with 60 coming on one play. The only other long run the Chiefs allowed was a 17-yard effort by Thomas Jones. That 135-yard performance was their best run defense in a month, since they allowed Denver 94 yards. New York’s 420 total yards was the fewest the Chiefs have allowed since giving up 378 yards against Atlanta five weeks ago.
4&1 jesus Herm go for it our team looked pretty good but yet again poorly coached
I’d love to see what we could do offensively with a real line. Too bad we didn’t spend some of that 30 mil we have sitting idle on a RT or RG in the off season. We might still have Huard or Brokie active and not be staring down the barrel at signing Culpepper. (I’d pull the trigger, personally)
I loved Mark Bradely yesterday, we actually looked like we 2 WR on the field playing the same gameplan. WE SHOULD DO THAT EVERY WEEK!!
Other than the O-line and QB problems, we need some major help in the LB corps. Pat Thomas isn’t going to develop any further and holds us back from our gameplan on the D side.
Heres the question though, what coaches deserve to keep their jobs next year? Seriously, who has been preparing their units to be as competitive as possible on game day?
I was glad to see they moved Hali back to his old spot and the line actually got some pressure. The OL looked better because Thigpen could move around. Did anyone notice if we moved any of the offensive line players around to other positions or did we start the same five guys in the same spots. I was pleasantly surprised that we threw to the TE Cottam and he made a couple nice catches and got some yards after the catch. We got another good game from Tony G, just miffed as to why Tony gets mugged then gets called for pushing off when the ball is not even thrown to him. Too bad we didn’t get more pass interference calls on the Jets but in the end they didn’t get it done on their own. I think in the second from last drive I would have had Thigpen roll out and try to run to get the first down. Other wise you want them to keep the clock moving and force Favre to pass all the time and try to get him to throw another interception. All in all I was disappointed that we lost but I can handle a loss where at least we played respectable ball and not look like a bunch of bumbling idiots out there.
Better performance by the defense, but still getting embarrassed in one-on-one mathcups.Interesting to see them go at Flowers all day and not so much at Carr. As I watch him, Carr seems to have really gotten better each games. Flowers is getting pushed around a bit by receivers, but was in the right place at the right time yesterday.
I will say the defensive MVP was the Chiefs offense. They stayed on the field with some nice drives. Makes a big difference. Still not sure why the Jets didn’t run more. They had success when they did, but didn’t seem to want to stay with what works. Kind of like the Chiefs at the end when they went into their “prevent” offense. Same results as the prevent defense usually gets.
1. bradley was a great pickup
2. richardson should be starting if nt at RT than at RG
3. Herm lost the game for us
4. Team finally realized that Hali is not a RDE
5. Thigpen earned more starting time.
Hey B in SC, it was funny as the announcers could not understand why the Jets didn’t run more too. The only thing they could come up with was the OC for the Jets were trying to outsmart themselves. Good thing for us, LOL
B in SC,
One positive about the defense yesterday was that DB’s and LB’s did a much better job of converging on the ballcarrier. Not nearly as many “one move and nothing but daylight” runs.
Both our rookie corners look very good, but I’m especially impressed by Carr so far. Good in coverage, good tackler, good speed.
I, like many, was perplexed by the Jets offensive game plan. All those who say Herm is the Worst Coach in the History of the NFL should consider what it must have been like to be a Jets fan yesterday.
I thought the comment about trying to outsmart us was funny too. Why would you try to outsmart the 31st ranked defense? Didn’t make sense, but sure helped keep us in the game.
I am one of those who thinks Herm is one of the worst head coaches. He is just over his head and has reached the point of his highest level of incompetance. He should be a position coach and would be a good one. He just doesn’t have the ability to make game critical decisions. I would, however, have been screaming mad if I were a Jets fan yesterday. Can you imagine watching Favre drop back over and over when they probably could have exceeded 200 yards on the ground? We couldn’t tackle Leon Washington (or many others for that mater).
Still you could watch this game without vomitting. Special thanks to the Jets for not running the ball the way our record says any NFL team that knows anything should.
By the by did anyone notice our 5th pick overall do anything to contribute the this game? That is Dorsey.
How did Glenn Dorsey do yesterday?
Several sources report many of the rookies played well yesterday, but no mention of Dorsey. He is the cornerstone of the most recent draft and the highest Chiefs’ pick in years. Should we be concerned?
Separately, assuming Thigpen plays well the remainder of the season, what position other an QB should the Chiefs use on their first draft pick. Middle LB or O-tackle or DE? So many choices.
Dorsey was double teamed nearly the entire game. He needs to learn to deal with it, but give a man a break!
Hali looks much better moved back to his natural spot on the line.
McBride gets knocked way outta the play at times, but I like him.
What a difference Donnie Edwards makes - in the limited plays he is on the field.
KC’s linebacking corps and safetys are just plain awful at times.
Fortunately, the Chiefs will have a shot at the best pass rushing DE, killer MLB or OLB or game-changing safety, ala Troy Polamalu, in the top 5 of next year’s draft. (Cross your fingers for Tyler Thigpen’s continued improvement.)
I wonder how much influence Favre had on the Jets’ playcalling yesterday. Any chance he went “off the reservation” gameplan-wise?
I think that is a very distinct possibility IL.
From what I saw, Dorsey did as well as he could. He was doubl-teamed most of the day since we don’t have a DE that can be a single block. With that said, the LB’s should have been free to do a much better job. I don’t think you can even evaluate him much until next year. Hopefully, he will get some help.
For the draft (a long way off), I hope CP and Herm don’t make some QB a number 1 that really isn’t one. There don’t appear to be any franchise QB’s in college this year, but a couple that could be 2nd or 3rd rounders. OL, MLB, DE would be much better investment.
ILChiefsFan- I can’t believe he would go that far from the gameplan. A play or two, sure. I just think they tried to be too smart and assumed KC would have 8 or 9 in the box all day since the suck defending the run. Can’t understand why they didn’t adjust later. I guess coaching brilliance isn’t confined to the Chiefs…
Exactly how much success did the Jets have in running, except for the one big play?
Not much: 3.2 ypc on all other carries.
Our biggest problems on run defense are in our LB corps. When they don’t overplay and fill their gaps properly, we actually do a good stopping the run. Tyler and Dorsey and McBride actually do a pretty good job stuffing the run at the line on 60% of the plays. On another 20%, they occupy blockers and a LB or DB stuffs the run pretty well. It’s the other 20% that has killed us.
You can’t “take away” any of the long runs, of course. They happened. But as the defense improves, those run coverage breakdowns are being eliminated. We might actually be a good run-stopping team by the end of the season. And our pass defense, while inconsistent, is showing some good ability at times.
Well, out of only 17 rushing attempts they had a 60 yard run, a 17 yard run and 2 touchdowns. I would say that was pretty successful. If they cut the 40 pass attempts in half, I would think they would have really piled up the rushing numbers. Glad they didn’t though. I don’t see the DL as being quite as successful. One thing that is glaring are the lack of tackles-for-loss. DL is not penetrating at all to make the occasional tackle behind the line. I know they are being taught to “tie up” blockers, but that means you are almost always allowing the back to at least get 1 to 2 yards.
Not sure about the pass defense yet. As long as teams can run the ball almost at will, they don’t have to throw it. Unless of course you are the Jets and think you need to throw it anyway.
I really think that a premier pass rush DE would do Dorsey and Hali some good. That would eliminate the double team on Dorsey and also give Hali another diversion for the opposing offense to worry about. If Dorsey is getting doubles all the time then he is doing what Herm said he wanted from him … to be the target of the blocking scheme to free up the other DL guys. The other DL guys aren’t using that to their advantage or don’t know how.
They weren’t able to get many first downs rushing, or into 2nd or 3rd and short by rushing.
They were only able to get those with short passes.
That’s why they didn’t stick with the run. They couldn’t completely abandon it, but they couldn’t depend on it for the yardage they needed. They were only consistently getting the necessary yards through passing.
Yeah, a 60 yarder, a 17 yarder are great, but you can gameplan for it. You gameplan for your runs to get 4 yards each time you try, and we were consistently holding them to less than that, except for the two times already mentioned.
One guy rushes for 60 yards, yet ends up with only 67 yards. The other guy, the #1 RB, breaks one for 17 yards, but ends up with less than 60 yards total. On his other 13 carries, he gets less than three yards a pop.
It would be stupid to depend on the run with those kind of results.
I do think the D-line has a way to go before being good. I should have emphasized the grudging nature of my semi-approval. Obviously, we’ve given up too many big rushes, and gotten so few QB sacks that it would be hard to give the D-line even a “B” at this point.
But considering the youth and the flashes of good play, I’d give ‘em a “C” with signs of improvement.
One thing I noticed about the D-line the last few games (I’d like to see if anyone else saw the same thing, or if I’m smoking crack):
The RB bounces around the D-line, starts downfield, then gets tackled…but ends up right at the line of scrimmage or 1 yard past. That indicates the D-line is actually getting some decent penetration on running plays, that the RB has to avoid them and dodge just to get back to the line of scrimmage. Sure, they should be able to shed the block and make a tackle for a loss…but didn’t the Chiefs lead the league in tackles for losses last year? …that might have been just Derrick Johnson leading all individual players.
Anyway, I think the D-line and run defense will end up being among the best by the end of next year, but our early-season stinkiness will hide the improvement in the season-long averages.
Why it took Herm 4 Exhibitions, and 7 games to figure out that Hali was a good player on one side, and a total failure on the other, is just another reason he needs to go after the season.
The defense played ok but between them and the special teams they cost us the game. Everybody is going to blame Herm for running the ball when up 24 to 21 3 times. But anybody that knows football knows that is not what cost us this game. How about the special teams make a freaking tackle. They allowed Leon Washington to put the Jets in good field position.
Next the defense has to get off the field. WE kept putting the Jets in third down situations and they kept converting. The defense has to step up and force a field goal at least.
And on offense going back to that play the o-line has to suck it up hit somebody in the mouth and open up a whole so Smith can get 3 little yards. I mean come on the o-line has got to show some heart in that situation and make it happen. They need to watch film on the Titans o-line and see the toughness it takes to run the football in that situation.
You said it ED. I’ve made it clear I’m no fan of Herm, but you’ve gotta try and kill that clock and keep Favre off the field in that situation. If they threw the ball and Thigpen got picked off then everyone would be saying we should have run. What SHOULD have happened is just what you said: the offensive line needed to punch some people in the mouth and open a hole for Smith so he could gain three yards instead of two. Then we could have run more plays and killed lots more clock. Kolby Smith has shown that he can be productive if has even a little room to run. He had none all day yesterday.
I don’t like Herm, but the O line should be ashamed.
Ed/Colby,
Running the ball to kill the clock is the idea. However, against the Jets the best offensive weapon on the field on was Thigpen. Any coach worth his salt puts the ball in the hands of his best player in critical situations if he wants to win. Second and four, play-action Thigpen to a rollout. If the short easy completion is there, throw it. If not, run it. Can you imagine what it would have done for Thigpen’s confidence if Herm had given him the opportunity to win the game instead of just not losing it? Given the way he was playing, he would have converted. Putting the ball back in Favre’s hands at the point was equivalent to a loss. Herm should have been more creative. That’s why he’s not head coach material and it IS his fault they lost.
Larry, the only thing I would add to your comment is the punt coverage (or lack there of) hurt also.
Larry,
Ed and Colby understand football, which is why their opinions on this is so level headed!
heh heh heh heh, “but shouldn’t your second best O lineman be your back up left tackle?”
JohndoesDallas, you think that is funny
I am glad that I can amuse you. If Branden Albert goes down who is going to fill his spot?, it better be the next best O Lineman.
LMAO, Make that Johndonedallas, that was in my youthful conquer all conquest days.
Judging from some of your post, I don’t think you have yet hit puberty, so I know that’s difficult for you to grasp, much the same way you have a problem understanding football.
heh heh heh :)D
True Red & Gold,
Apparently most NFL coaching staffs don’t understand football, because I can guarantee you that the 2nd-best O-lineman on most NFL squads is NOT sitting on the bench.
In response to Larry. Look at some point that o-line has to make a play. You can’t keep blaming the coach when players are getting paid millions of dollars play a game. Its ridiculous that they couldn’t create enough of a whole to get 3yards. So thats not Herm fault thats on there sorry butts.
Next that is not what cost us the game. Think outside the box my friend. How about the special teams make a darn tackle. They allow Washington to put the Jets in position to win the game by giving them a short field. I know the average fan doesn’t talk about special teams but when special teams do there job it can swing a game one way or the other. If they would have tackled Leon no telling how well Farve would have done having to go the length of the field. Judging how he was playing he probably would have thrown another pick.
And last how about the defense stop somebody. Defense wins football games. Yeah they created some turnovers but they gave up 28 points. And to make matters worse it wasn’t because the offense turned the ball over they didn’t have a turnover the whole game. During that last possesion the defense have to get off the field on 3rd down situations and they didn’t do that. At least force the Jets to kick a field goal. Its easy to blame the coach for this or that. But at some point the guys on the field have to do their jobs. I’m not saying a coach can’t cost a team a game but special teams playing as poorly as they did all Sunday and the defense giving up almost 30 pts I put the blame on them.
They got to pick up against the Bucs Sunday
P.S. Special teams gave up a 35 yard punt return before Farve game winning drive and you just can’t do that late in a game, especially when it maybe the the opposing team last possesion.
ed,
No offensive line in the NFL is going to punch a hole through 9 guys at the line of scrimmage that know the next play is a run between the tackles.