Commentary: Progress, But It Still Hurts
From the Meadowlands in New Jersey
Before a team can learn how to win, it has to learn how to play.
Maybe, just maybe the Chiefs learned how to play on Sunday afternoon at Giants Stadium.
They are now 1-6 on the season and they easily could have that same record and played much better football than they’ve shown for most of those seven games. But they didn’t play good football; in fact, most of the time they were downright awful. They played well in New England and against Denver. Otherwise, their performances were putrid, with no offense, no defense and no special teams. What was most bothersome to everyone involved, from ownership to the fans, with GMs, coaches and players in between, was the lack of improvement. The Chiefs seemed to be going backwards.
That wasn’t the case against the New York Jets on a sunny October Sunday afternoon in the swamps of Jersey. The Chiefs played one of their best games of the season. They made their mistakes, failed to capitalize on opportunities and were beaten physically at times. But it wasn’t anything like the last month. In the fourth quarter, they were not multiple touchdowns behind. They held victory in their hands in the final period with the clocking crawling towards the game’s conclusion.
That they were not able to pull out the victory does not come as much of a surprise. Again, a team has to learn how to play together as a team before it can learn how to win a game. This afternoon should be part of the learning process. There was no celebration in the Chiefs locker room over a defeat just because it was not an embarrassment.
Players acknowledged the improved play, but that was no salve for their wounds.
“I’m the wrong guy to be asking if this feels better than the last few games,” said middle linebacker Pat Thomas. “I don’t think that way. If anything, this is worse. We didn’t have a chance to win last week’s game. We had a chance to win this game. We couldn’t get it done.
“That sucks big time.”
For Chiefs fans, that might be the best thing that can come out of this game: that there was nobody satisfied with an improved performance in defeat. Good or bad, it’s still defeat.
“Maybe tomorrow this feels better, but I doubt it,” said linebacker Derrick Johnson.
Tomorrow, Johnson will still be thinking about the interception of Brett Favre that he dropped. Had he held on, it would likely have been six points. RB Kolby Smith will be thinking about a third down run late in the game when he thought he had a first down. He saw it, he tasted it, but then he was tripped and fell a yard short. The Chiefs punted on fourth down and Favre led the Jets to the winning touchdown. Dimitri Patterson will be second guessing himself and wondering if there was anything more he could have done in coverage on that winning score
“A game like this comes down to a few plays here and there,” said Herm Edwards. “We didn’t make those plays.”
They had not been in position to make those plays for quite some time. In the season of rebuilding, the lessons learned on Sunday against the Jets are huge. Whether they pay off in victory won’t be known until the Chiefs put themselves back in that position.
How can you not call out Herm on thinking a three point lead with 5 minutes left against Brett Farve was enough to kneel down and give them the ball back with 3 minutes left? Herm has done this for 8 years and still hasn’t learned. The only thing more embarrassing than having Herm as our head coach is having traded a 4th round pick for him. Get over it, fire him, and move on.
Special Teams and play calling late, was a soaking rain to a spark that should have at the least caused a small flame in the Chiefs season.
Still didn’t see the “fire” in the defense that Bob wrote about earlier this week. Flowers showed it some, but they seem so timid and soft. A slight siff-arm puts our defenders on the ground. They don’t play “mad”. I’m not sure what it will take to get that emotion, but they need to find it fast. They need a Joey Porter, Ray Lewis type of personality to fire them up. Where is Dujan Morgan by the way? I thought he had that kind of personality and they were high on him.
Losing Charles basically killed the offense…Must say however that Im glad for Flowers, however those 3 non call pass interference penalties against Bowe twice and one on Franklin at the end hurt us…seemed they favored the jets when it counted.
No matter what was said I’m Proud of the Secondary of the Chiefs. Our problem is the front seven…. May be the scheme….or the small size of our linebackers but something needs to change!!!!
Why was Eric Walden inactive? Is he hurt? He has made almost every special teams tackle and it killed us today not having him. There were several more deserving candidates to be inactive. Darling?
B, The D was knocking Favre around quite a bit, more than any other game this season.
Yes it could have been much more stellar, but right now I will take SOME improvement over the 1st 5 weeks.
If Tyler keeps playing like this it would definitely be something to build on, that offense was almost good enough to win! What happened to the fullback today? the run game has a lot left to b e desired. I was pleasantly surprised by his greatly improved accuracy today. the defense let that one big run go and that was the difference.
Chiefs used more 2 TE sets in this game and thus less FB.
Blame herm for the conservative playcalling in the 4th. Give credit to the players for playing their butts off today.
Mike Singletary is my kinda COACH!!
KC could use a good does of his personalty!
This was about as good as the Chiefs can play so if there really IS anything to the notion of a ‘good loss’, then this was it. Thigpen played QB as well as any Chief this season and maybe back into all of 2007?
THAT was the pleasant surprise of the day. The play of the QB with no turnovers, quick releases and suddenly appearing to have had someone or something turn on the light of understanding in his brain.
Baby steps. Much work to be done on run defense, protections, putting together effective rushes on the opposing QB, but now there seems to be a glimmer of light and hope that the Chiefs may, and I’m not one to annoint anyone after 1 good game, but may have found something with the QB position?
Important for Thigpen to build on this solid performance in the weeks ahead. So, was this an anamoly or a harbinger for a far more positive future? Let us see.
I’m very impressed with this win. To me this was a moral victory. Thigpen played great, not good but great. I say if he continue to be accurate and not turn the ball over he can be this team franchise quarterback. Forget Culpepper he was a bust in MIA and OAK. People keep thinking their going to get the guy that played with Moss and their not. To me allow Thigpen to build off this game and move forward. We still have something we need to work on plus if LJ was here we would’ve won this game and definately would’ve converted on 2nd and 3 and 3rd and 3. I like the play call it was short yardage play the line has to do a better job blocking and Kolby needs to his the whole instead of tipping. He was tipping the whole game. Anyways was Go Chiefs way to show some heart.
I completely disagree with the comments made about the last offensive series. Those making comments like that have obviously never been part of a football team. Herm was telling his team that he had the confidence in them to run those plays. Football ultimately is not about tricking the other team but imposing your will on the other team. Herm understands that and he will build a team with that mentality.
Great game today. We did get to see that this offensive is coming together and stability at QB is huge for continued growth. The play calling will become more and more creative as the QB position solidifies. Tyler made a statement today and took advantage of this opportunity. Hopefully we will never get a look at Gray.
The defensive line looked better with Hali back home at LDE. They have a long way to go however, did Dorsey even play? He was invisible most of the game. That young man has a long way to go. Tackling was not really improved especially among linebackers and safeties. The young corners continued to look good. You can point your fingers all you want but if DJ makes the interception he takes it to the house and this was a different game?
Please do not use the words “moral victory.” It does not appear in the W column. I liked the fact they final got the offense out of the I formation and to something Thigpen is comfortable with. I thought the defense was going to carry this team and last years improvement. That is worst part of this whole situation.
redandgoldbleeder says:
“I thought the defense was going to carry this team and last years improvement. That is worst part of this whole situation”
I agree on the defense. Our offensive struggles can be linked with the instablility at QB. Not many teams will field a great offense when they have a revolving door at QB. There’s no excuse for our defense to be this bad and that’s why I don’t think Herm will be around next year unless they make a dramatic improvement in the last half of the season. These guys were handpicked by Herm and drafted by Herm and Kuharich and they aren’t getting it done. (Flowers and Carr excluded)
True Red & Gold says:
“I completely disagree with the comments made about the last offensive series. Those making comments like that have obviously never been part of a football team. Herm was telling his team that he had the confidence in them to run those plays. Football ultimately is not about tricking the other team but imposing your will on the other team. ”
Agreed. Running the ball is the right thing to do in this situation. The problem is the offensive line was not getting it done. Kolby Smith had no holes to run through all day long. They should take the rap for this, not Kolby or Gailey or Edwards.
Oh, and Edwards should take the rap for not bringing in more talent along the offensive line in the offseason. Albert is a nice start, but nowhere near enough.
Moral Victory may not appear in the W column, but it counts alot as far as hope for the future. We all hate to lose, but the rapid decline seen over the past few games had to stop. This game that we were “supposed to lose” big, will give the knowldedg that they CAN win, and hope that they WILL win. They’ve spiraled downward in every catagory recently and most significantly, in my estimation, it has been their morale and teamwork. Today they proved that when they play as a unit, they are actually good. There is no such thing as a fun loss, but I’d catigorize this one as a good loss.
BOB GRETZ PLEASE GIVE US INSIGHT ON THE DAUNTE CULPEPPER SITUATION- I HOPE THIGPENS PLAY HAS DERAILED US FROM BRINGING HIM IN SERIOUSLY-LETS DEVELOPE THIGPEN-FORGET OLD CULPEPPER-WE NEED TO FIND A QBOTF-NOT GET ANOTHER DICK VERMEIL STYLE BAND AID-BOB PLEASE POST UPDATES FROM THE THINKING OF THE FRONT OFFICE-WILL THE CHIEFS CONSIDER BUILDING AROUND THIGPEN IF HIS PLAY CONTINUES TO BE THIS GOOD?
Great job Edwards, great job Thigpen, and great job by eothers. Progress indeed.
And Herm - just say no to Culpepper but if you do choose to sign him I shall smite thee for calling it a youth movement (you are already testing the limits credibility by keeping Barry Richardson in moth balls.)
Gooooooooooooooooo Chiefs!
Alex—Add the no call on JETS during the kick off that they slamed into the back of the KC man and changed the field position from the 20 to the 50. Made me think the men in stripes had all their money on the JETS. Thanks Tyler, I read you right from they start. Your a winner.
Now I understand why My Dad and Red Foreman (That 70’s Show) Used the description “Hop Head” to describe some people, Modern Term would be Crack Head.
My generation would have said BURN OUT!
heh heh heh heh
Brad Cottam would be someone I would hate to deal with as a linebacker or a corner if hey came out of the backfield on weak side sweeps. There may be a possible L.J. fill in– 3rd and whatever.
I have been a Herm believer that has started to have some doubts . I understand the thought behind running the ball to take time off the clock. Yet why didn’t they run Thigpen in a roll out with the option to run or throw in the 3min series ? I realize that Iam not a pro coach but if you are 1&6 what do you have to lose if you go for it on 4th down on your own side of the 50 It wouldn’t have change the out come of the game (still a loss). Herm said he was sure to be 2nd guess Yes only because he has nothing to lose for going for it the rest of this season.
One draft, a team full of rookie starters and a new QB… Not bad Edwards. Keep ‘em fightin’ for a job.
Nice showing for the young guys, way to go!
I’m still not sold on the Herm & Company.
we all must remember that the defense has alot of new starters and as gun says they have to trust each other they are still learning to do thatwe can only get better i expect we start winning next week at home will start a build up of confidence in the defense and maybe Bowe will start RAC instead of being and acrobat to show how fancy he can catch the ball looks like lack of effort to me he should go to gonzalez and take lessons on rac nobody better than gonzo the CHIEFS only real talent when it comes to pro football
True Red & Gold,
The first sign that someone knows they are in the wrong is when their only defense it to make blind personal attacks on the person with differing opinions.
Try having a discussion instead of calling people ignorant just because you don’t agree.
Herm abandoned a successful game plan with 5:20 left to try to run out the clock. He’s done this many times, and ended up losing it many times because of it. It’s one of the big reasons he was run out of New York.
I know everyone has already said it, but let’s really pile on here. A lot of things costed us this victory, but Herm/Chan going with 3 straight runs? Ugh. You knew it was coming and so did the Jets. With Thigpen playing the game of his life we put the ball in the hands of Kolby Smith who has done nothing all game - and the Jets know we’re going to give it to him. Somebody seriously needs to revise Herm’s coaching handbook and bring it up to date by a few decades. This Pop Warner sh!t’s getting old. And by getting old I mean it was old long before Herm left New York. Dungy learned his lesson offensively. Herm’s too stupid, I fear.
Turn bootlegs into options with Brad Cottam—-
Jay A. says:
True Red & Gold,
The first sign that someone knows they are in the wrong is when their only defense it to make blind personal attacks on the person with differing opinions.
Jay A. when some guy in the stands is yelling at the refs because the receiver got pushed out and couldn’t get both feet in, someone needs to tell him the rules or to shut up! It is kind of the same thing when someone makes an ignorant comment because he has no real experience in what he is saying. Someone needs to tell him.
I have played football and I have coached football and I can tell you this, the players are not disappointed that the same play was called three times, they are disappointed because they could not travel 10 yds running that play. Their coach put his trust in them to travel 10 yds running a sound, well designed play. They are not mad at him because they couldn’t get it done!
Herm’s is responsible to his players, not us the fans, it would be wise for all of us to not forget that.
There you go, starting out with another personal attack on someone you know nothing about just because you disagree… thanks for the affirmation!
Try looking up the player comments when asked about the play selection. Nothing but “no comments” even though they responded to all other questions. Yeah, they’re not disappointed.
Jay A., we are all ignorant, unless you know everything about everything you too are ignorant. It is not a “personal attack” to point out another persons ignorance on a certain subject or topic. In most cases you are doing them a favor!
Of course the players were disappointed, just not in the same thing that you think they were disappointed in.
TR&G,
You equated me to an obnoxious fan who doesn’t know the rules (i.e. getting two feet down in bounds) and yells at the refs. Your first reaction was to make blind derogatory comments off baseless assumptions on others knowledge and experience in football.
Call it what you will, but it’s still personal and baseless.
And unless we can get direct access to the players thoughts or they answer the questions directly, neither of us can know for sure about their personal opinions. But based off the refusal of many players to answer the question regarding the play-calling late in the game (and their willingness to answer other questions), I’d say that makes it more likely than not that they were disappointed in the play calling, but were smart enough to not say so publicly.
If they felt like it was JUST the players inability to get the first down, they would have answered the question with something to that affect. Something like, “We just didn’t get the job done.” But even players like Tony G. and Donnie E., who are stand up guys who understand personal responsibility, refused to answer the question.
And, if there are players that are disappointed in the play calling, it is only the ones that were not given the opportunity to get the first down. That is the nature of football players. The receivers were disappointed that they were not given an opportunity, the TEs are disappointed that they weren’t thrown the ball, and the right side of the line is saying if only they would have run the ball to our side. I would very surprised if Kolby Smith or the left side of the line is disappointed in the play calling. And to think that they are means you don’t know much about football players, which makes you ignorant on that topic.
The play calling was sound, Period! and you have a lot of room to talk considering you are calling out the coach and you have no idea what he is dealing with.
You’re right. The best way to have a discussion is to say “If you don’t agree with me, you’re an idiot.”
Case closed. Goodbye.
Oh, and by the way, Herm was not run out of New York. He was traded for a 4th round draft pick. Hardly sounds like he was run out to me. It is statements like that, that lead me to believe you don’t know what the Heck you are talking about!
October 27, 2008 - Jay A. says:
You’re right. The best way to have a discussion is to say “If you don’t agree with me, you’re an idiot.â€
What are you calling Herm? just because you don’t agree with his play calling!
Many of you guys have the audacity to call Herm an idiot but you are offended when it comes back at you!
As for the Chiefs paying a forth round pick for herm “A sucker is born every minute” (Peterson)
Any body have any info on who (if any) others were competing to get Herm?
This would be a question I would think findthedr would pursue with vigor.
True Red & Gold and Rin Tin Tin should get together and form the “Herm Edwards Apologist Club”…I can see the motto now: “Supporting Mediocrity and Bottom-of-the-Barrel Football Since 2006″…haha.
No one would be stupid enough to “compete” for Herm, except Carl. It was a pure crony hire, just like DV was. The Jet fans still can’t stop laughing at the theft the Jets pulled, sticking us with the worst head coach in football, an offense kller(and here, a defense killer as well) and they actually got something extra, a 4th round choice, for the priviledge of dumping a guy that was run out of NY. Absolutely amazing.
True Red & Gold,
FYI, Herm was run out of town in NY (New Jersey actually). I was in Jersey at the time. He was going to get fired no matter what. He was even kept out of team functions at the end before being traded. People figured the Chiefs were willing to give up a draft pick to keep other teams from bidding on him. Whether any other team was actually interested in him is a mystery.