Chiefs Update 11/17
From the Truman Sports Complex
When things are as bad as the 2008 season has been for the Chiefs, any good news helps.
This woudl qualify as at least a small piece of good news: the Chiefs no longer have the worst run defense in the NFL.
After 10 games the Chiefs have given up 1,654 rushing yards. That total now puts them ahead of the Detroit Lions, who after giving up a pair of 100-plus rushers to Carolina on Sunday have allowed 1,715 yards. It’s the first time since their bye week in October where the Chiefs have not been last in the league against the run.
They are however, still allowing more yards than any defense in the league, giving up 4,025 yards in 10 games. That’s eight yards more than the Lions, at 4,017.
Unhappily, they are still on a pace to set the team record for most yards allowed in a season. At 402.5 yards per game, that’s a pace to allow 6,440 yards on the season, which would break the mark held by the 2002 defense.
The Chiefs might be able to slow that pace with the return of some of their injured defenders. That, however, depends on them not losing any other players to injury.
The team reported back to work on Monday, but they had no team workout. That’s been Herm Edwards custom over the last few years: late in the season, cut back a bit on the on-field work to save the legs.
The team is very tight lipped these days with information on injuries, so what came out of the wash from Sunday’s loss to New Orleans is unknown at this time.
But there appears some hope that LB Derrick Johnson and CBs Brandon Flowers and Pat Surtain could return to practice work this coming week. Johnson and Flowers have sore hamstrings and Surtain a quadriceps injury; all missed the last two games.
Now, there are questions surrounding LB Donnie Edwards, who was lifted from this past Sunday’s game in the fourth when he tweaked his hamstring.
There are also concerns with P Dustin Colquitt who did not kick well against New Orleans. He’s been battling groin and calf injuries this season.
DE Tamba Hali and RG Adrian Jones both have ankle problems and missed Sunday’s game. Their availability for this Sunday’s game against Buffalo remains in doubt.
I imagine the rush defense will continue to look better as we continue to prove we have no ability to reach the QB.
This post is outside the norm as it’s just occured to me. OUTSIDE the lines, folk.
I think as much as we all enjoy this site and the excellent views and features that Bob Gretz has provided, it may not be forever or even into the near future as this is a losing team, one with many decisions to be made including those who are part of the Chief’s publicity, especially in a brutal economy.
I could be far off the mark here. Or, not? At any rate, I’m hopeful that I’m way wide left and out of bounds. Given the uncertain current economic landscape, I want to say thanks again to Bob for providing this excellent source of information for our fav team.
Go Thigpen!
This article is reason enough that Gun needs to be fired.
Here is an internet rumour that I would like Mr. Gretz’ opinion on:
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Source says Peterson’s days numbered… Herm likely out too.
Just hours after the Chiefs lost yet another game to the New Orleans Saints at home, our source close to the Chiefs organization called once again reaffirming his belief that current Chiefs’ GM Carl Peterson will be let go at season end by owner Clark Hunt.
“A slow and silent axe has begun falling down on his head,” our source said. “Hunt is not showing his hand completely but you can see the signs. Carl has not said much in recent weeks and you can genuinely sense a different look on his face when you see him walking around. He knows his meter is running out and that Clark is no longer interested in stuffing it with more coins.”
As for head coach Herm Edwards, our source is not sure on his fate but said, “My hunch is that he will be gone. You look around and see at where this team is currently. Yes, there is marginal improvement but you ask yourself, is it really enough after 3 years and is there really a plan? The defense is a complete debacle, the quarteback and offense they are running is not the smash-mouth, power running philosophy that Herm preaches. They have more in common with the 2003 Chiefs which he Herm) said scored too fast.”
Sounds like contrived B.S. to me.
A very honest and blunt article from Bob on the chiefs website
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http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2008/11/16/the_continuing_futility/
It was another defeat. That’s six in a row for the Chiefs. That’s nine in the 10 games of this 2008 NFL season. That’s an unbelievable 18 of the franchise’s last 19 games.
It’s a stretch of futility that is unmatched in franchise history. In the 1977-78 seasons, the team lost 18 of 21 games at one point. The 2007-08 Chiefs already have the 18 defeats and they have two more games to reach 21.
Sunday’s loss to the Saints was a step backwards for these Chiefs.
What happens now? If clark does nothing or only promotes carl, what has the team gained? If he fires herm also (and his coaches), what is gained. Basically, the team is real garbage and no where near rebuilding. Injuries happen, lots of injuries happen to losing teams. Just what has herm done to improve the team. One good draft, a few good cheap free agents (cast offs mostly), and give up all his alleged principles, a strong running game and stout defense.
The team may be in free fall and may be worse than before herm was hired and need 3 more year of rebuilding from manure to a NFL team.
tm1946
You hit the nail on the head. The whole idea of winning with a strong running game/strong defense, which is a good concept despite the attempts by some to denigrate it, seems to have been forgotten.
Keep up the great work Coach Edwards. ALL of KC is behind you and we know that you will lead us back to glory very soon now.
AND NOW, Clark Hunt has RE-affirmed Herm’s The Man!
: )
Regarding the Chiefs pass rush, it’s interesting to note that of the 10 games they’ve played, 6 have been against the top 10 offenses in the league in sacks allowed. Four have been against the top 6 teams.
I’m not saying the Chiefs have a good pass rush, but it will be interesting to see if they can increase their sack rate over the last 6 games, 4 of which will be against teams in the bottom half of the league in sacks allowed.
Hello ILChiefsFan
I agree the Defense has improved.
But we have to have a dominant D-end and a solid Mike Backer.
I’m not sure Hali is that guy at end, He could possibly be a good Rush Backer, or possible trade bait. (I feel confident there is no one on the current roster that could help at the mike)
If we could draft another D-End (and a MLB) for Hali’s right side leave McBride on the left, imo that would help this D tremondously.
If we can trade down in the draft and accomplish these things, even better.
Hi John.
I agree that RDE and MLB are big needs.
Hali and McBride seem very similar in overall effectiveness; either could benefit at LE from the presence of a strong RDE. I’m not sure either one would be considered attractive trade bait.
Rebuild or not, the record speaks for itself. Chiefs were 9-7 in Herm’s first year using Vermeils “Old Guys”. They were 4-12 with a mix of old and Herms mighty men. Now the Chiefs are 1-9 with Herms mighty men. Hmmm this adds up to no coaching ability. At least Gun was 8-8 in his two seasons before he got the ax. Granted the injury bug has come out in full force, that should not be used as a reason for lousy special team play. After all these men are PRO-fessionals. They should play like they know how the game is played. Herm has to go. Give GUN one more season to work out the Hermitis that has set in on defense and let Chan have full control of the offense.
1. Strong running game only works if you have a strong offensive line (which the chiefs dont) or if you have barry sanders in your backfield.
2. Defense has improved? lol. take of your rose colored glasses. Gretz mentioned some stats in this article, but here it is as of today:
Total D: 32nd
Scoring: 28th
Passing: 27th
Rushing: 31st
3. I pretty much agree with IlChifsFan and tm1946, though I would say that I think McBride can become an effective DE (either R or L) for the chiefs.
Hali is too injury prone, and has chronic knee problems. Really the only way to aleviate knee ‘trauma’ is reduce the the impact on the knee, and the only way to do that is to reduce weight.
It just might be that Hali’s body cant handle playing on the Dline. He might have to either play linebacker in a 3-4 defense (probably a better fit for him) or Strong OLB/MLB in a 4-3 (not as good a fit).
If the chiefs werent willing to give big money to Allen, I dont know how they could give it to Hali who has shown he cant stay healthy, is piss poor against the run, and is inefective as a RDE.
kr24,
you want to give GUn 1 more season?
thats absolutely nuts. His 5 yr record with the chiefs since coming back is enough reason that he should be the 1st one of the coaches to get fired.
2007:
Total Defense: 13st
Passing Defense: 5th
Rushing Defense: 28th
Scoring Defense: 14th
2006:
Total Defense: 16th
Passing Defense: 18th
Rushing Defense: 18th
Scoring Defense: 11th
2005:
Total Defense: 25th
Passing Defense: 30th
Rushing Defense: 7th
Scoring Defense: 16th
2004 Gun is back:
Total Defense: 31st
Passing Defense: 32nd
Rushing Defense: 12th
Scoring Defense: 29th
2003 (GRob’s last yr):
Total Defense: 29th
Passing Defense: 20th
Rushing Defense: 30th
Scoring Defense: 19th
Since you brought up the time that Gun was head coach, lets investigate his defense then:
2000:Gun Head coach
Total Defense: 18th
Passing Defense: 20th
Rushing Defense: 17th
Scoring Defense: 19th
1999:Gun Head coach
Total Defense: 14th
Passing Defense: 16th
Rushing Defense: 11th
Scoring Defense: 13th
1998: Marty’s last yr head coach. Gun Dcoordinator
Total Defense: 9th
Passing Defense: 7th
Rushing Defense: 18th
Scoring Defense: 22nd
So why does Gun deserve any more time. Bringing him back was a sentimental mistake that both CP and the fans made. Time to cut the cord, cut our losses, and move on.
Wow! Lost me on that one find, who said any thing about giving Hali a big contract, the move I was talking about would be a demotion, from starting right D-end to a rush backer roll.
Maybe your unfamiliar with this position, he would only be playing on obvious passing downs.
And I was the one that said McBride needs to keep his job (for the time being)
I guess I’ll go back and research some of your former post, because sounds to me like your saying what I had said to you before about Hali as a line backer in a 3/4 defense, but at that time you poo-poo that thought.
So do I need to do the leg work to show your inconsistencies or would you like to just fess up?
Again find, you say Gun was a sentimental fav as a D Coordinator, but not so long ago you were wanting to bring Marty ball back to KC.
Ok I have a mission now, I’m going to invest some time and research your previous post so that any one that hasn’t already figured out, that you are hither and yon on you opinions?facts?
John,
Since you offered, I think you need to prove my so-called inconsistincies. screen captures would be nice. I think I will do that for your from now on.
No one mentioned before me about giving Hali a longterm contract. He is, afterall, in his 3rd yr…and that will at some point be on the teams mind. I dont think he fits into the teams longterm plans unless he is able to stay healthy and show consistent production.
It seems we both agree that Hali might fit better at LB, but nowhere in this thread in your posts did you mention Hali as a 3-4LB.
I dont know if you mentioned that in a thread before this, and you are welcome to try to prove it, but just because Hali might be a better FIT as a 3-4 LB doesnt justify the team to switch from a 4-3 D to a 3-4.
John,
I think you either:
1. Dont fully read people’s posts and jump to conclusions
or
2. You have some difficulty with reading comprehension.
Exhibit A
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4461/29650704oc8.jpg
screen capture from this this thread:
http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/tyler%E2%80%99s-day-lj%E2%80%99s-day-other-notes.html#comments
John,
I forgot to address this comment you made: “but not so long ago you were wanting to bring Marty ball back to KC.”
1. Marty has produced a strong D wherever he has been (KC, Washington, San Diego among others). Gun has only had a good D while being babysat by Marty.
2. Bringing Marty back to KC is not necessarily bringing back marty ball. While at San Diego he showed he was willing to let the offense score points.
3. His teams are prepared.
Now your fessing up, any other confessions?
Quick & for sure ,Marty— with a new manager ,would make right combo . Steve Marugcia ,now at NFL total acuess . not only is he sharp ,but he knows , he knows alot & is a good people person .
You guys clamoring for Marty are like guys who start thinking about that ex-girlfriend from ten years ago. You know, the one you hated and thought was the biggest b*tch on the planet and wanted out of your life as fast as possible. Yet now, as you look back on the good times and forget the fights and the cheating and the nagging, you think that maybe if you gave her a call, you could make it work again.
Marty was a great coach, but let’s not pull a Redskins/Gibbs move. I don’t think that we have to be in rebuild mode next year whether Herm and Carl are fired or not. In the NFL, teams can turn it around quickly. However, whenever Herm and Carl ARE fired, I hope Clark goes outside the Carl/Marty family of coaches and GMs. No Cowher, no Gun, no Schottenheimer, no Mark Hatley, no Denny Thum. Let’s try a coach/GM from the Tuna’s family.
Coly, you are right ion the mark imo. I think Marty is too old to really want to come back into coaching. You might get him for a year or too at best. I think we need to start with a good GM and if they are worth their salery, then they will already know who the good up and coming coaches are. The chances of getting a Bill B. type coach are pretty slim. Just look back at the past Super Bowls and see how many teams (other then the Pats)make it several years in a row. Not too many, generally it’s going to be a crap shoot with a lot of luck thrown in for good measure. Even the great Pats could not win it all with the great team they had last year. I think we really need to get a good GM in to assess the whole organization and go from there. Just my humble opinion.
Peterson maybe gone yes. But Herm is going to be given at least the 2009 season to at least produce a 7 and 9 or 8 and 8 team. You can’t fire him in the first year you allow him to do a full makeover of the roster. And besides he did take the 2006 team to the playoffs. That ought to buy another year to fill in the holes on this roster. To many things happen to the roster to fire him like that. Loss of your first and second string quarterback. Defense ripped apart by injuries. 4 different running backs playing this season. A few wins down the strech of this season will bring him more job security. With the Raiders,Chargers,Broncos, and Bengals left on the schedule we should finish this season 5 and 11 or 6 and 10.
Hey “find” granted that there are no really impressive number on the total defense stats. You have pointed out that in the last 3 years that the Chiefs overall defense has steadily climbed into the upper half when compared to Guns first year back. Thanks. SO maybe you should look at what you typed in. Yes the defense in lousy now. That is why the statement of getting the Hermitis out of the defense was made.
I still remember Robinson’s defenses as being much worse than now. Apparently, statisticly they were not. Maybe it is because I realize we are playing with rookies and street guys right now?? I could never see any progress before, but I do now. Not as a whole (they stink), but on an individual basis.
Interesting statements about CP and Herm being fired. Never know where those things come from, but if true, I can’t imagine CP being fired and Herm staying. Any new GM will want to hire his own guy. You wouldn’t want to hire a GM with the condition of retaining the current coach. No good GM would take the job with those preconditions.
kr24,
Gun has had 5yrs back and the defense isnt as good as it should be (with the amount of draft picks and FA talent thrown at it).
Scoring Defense peaked in 2006, and plummeted since then. 2007 team couldnt stop the run and that has continued. Gun hasnt had a “good” defense in over a decade.
I dont know how you can look at those stats and the 2008 defense and justify giving him more time.