Comments on: A Rush to Judgment http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html Dedicated to providing the best coverage of the Kansas City Chiefs. News, commentary, reports, and exclusive inside information - daily! Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:00:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: tm1946 http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11823 tm1946 Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:06:30 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11823 We all had better hope Dorsey gets better in 09. The chiefs cannot afford any more busts if they intend to get better. Do not want to hurt anyone's feeling but if Dorsey did not fit into the chiefs system, why draft him? If he went 6th maybe he would have been in a system where he fit. How does drafting a kid who does not fit or is not prepared for the NFL make any team better? Building for the future is good if you are a decent team, but the chiefs needed players not just guys with an unknown future. We all had better hope Dorsey gets better in 09.

The chiefs cannot afford any more busts if they intend to get better. Do not want to hurt anyone’s feeling but if Dorsey did not fit into the chiefs system, why draft him? If he went 6th maybe he would have been in a system where he fit. How does drafting a kid who does not fit or is not prepared for the NFL make any team better? Building for the future is good if you are a decent team, but the chiefs needed players not just guys with an unknown future.

]]> By: arrowhead1978 http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11769 arrowhead1978 Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:16:42 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11769 Well if Dorsey didn't go #5 he was going to go #6 no doubt. Has anyone thought that Herm knew he needed to get a stud DT in the first year of the rebuild, then this season he could add to it, knowing that the first year for the DT would be the hardest. I believe its easier to come out of college and play DE instead of DT in the NFL... So next year with some added talent he should be able to thrive. Well if Dorsey didn’t go #5 he was going to go #6 no doubt. Has anyone thought that Herm knew he needed to get a stud DT in the first year of the rebuild, then this season he could add to it, knowing that the first year for the DT would be the hardest. I believe its easier to come out of college and play DE instead of DT in the NFL… So next year with some added talent he should be able to thrive.

]]> By: findthedr http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11764 findthedr Fri, 23 Jan 2009 14:32:34 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11764 Good point Jody. Another point to add is that tackle stats are misleading because it is tabulated by each individual team. Thats how star players like Ray lewis get to pad their tackle stats with ridiculous #s thanks to the baltimore stat guys. Good point Jody.

Another point to add is that tackle stats are misleading because it is tabulated by each individual team.

Thats how star players like Ray lewis get to pad their tackle stats with ridiculous #s thanks to the baltimore stat guys.

]]> By: Jody http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11750 Jody Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:23:23 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11750 I wouldn't call him a bust just yet although who knows if he will live up to his draft status. I will say numbers are deceiving. Getting tackles is great. getting tackles after being knocked four yards off the line of scrimmage not great. Then too you can blowup plays and not even touch the ballcarrier. I think we wanted/want to see him playing the the opponents backfield. I wouldn’t call him a bust just yet although who knows if he will live up to his draft status. I will say numbers are deceiving. Getting tackles is great. getting tackles after being knocked four yards off the line of scrimmage not great. Then too you can blowup plays and not even touch the ballcarrier. I think we wanted/want to see him playing the the opponents backfield.

]]> By: ED http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11732 ED Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:42:57 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11732 Nothin much to add to what already was said. Dorsey will get better and become a very good defensive tackle in this league and anyone who doubts that don't know crap about football. Nothin much to add to what already was said. Dorsey will get better and become a very good defensive tackle in this league and anyone who doubts that don’t know crap about football.

]]> By: Dorsey: Evaluation « CHIEFSpin http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11720 Dorsey: Evaluation « CHIEFSpin Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:37:21 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11720 [...] http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#more-6555 [...] [...] http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#more-6555 [...]

]]> By: Tim http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11718 Tim Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:09:51 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11718 Well said "findthedr"! I think many of us made the observation of the disconnect between what was being said about disruption & penetration vs gap control. JohnNdallas...yes, you're right. I was "hinting" at that. Well said “findthedr”! I think many of us made the observation of the disconnect between what was being said about disruption & penetration vs gap control.

JohnNdallas…yes, you’re right. I was “hinting” at that.

]]> By: findthedr http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11702 findthedr Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:17:13 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11702 Agree with you Mark, and CarlM. I dont think anyone is calling Dorsey a bust, but I will call the coaching staff incompetent. Bob, you proved it yourself when you said, "Dorsey played most of the season lining up head-to-head against a guard. There's no defensive tackle that's going to accomplish a lot in that position." Why put him in a position he wont likely succeed? As I showed earlier in the season, the chiefs initially said they wanted Dorsey to play 3-technique and be disruptive. Later on they said that they want him to take on blockers and gap control. Those are 2 seperate (and opposite) things. Here is incompetence: moving your starting RDT to DE playing a rookie 2/3s of the snaps switching from 3-tech to 2gap control The problem with the chiefs is they never figured out how to best utilize their front 7. They were moving players around all season long. Incompetence, and that is why nearly the entire D coaching staff is gone or will be gone. Agree with you Mark, and CarlM. I dont think anyone is calling Dorsey a bust, but I will call the coaching staff incompetent.

Bob, you proved it yourself when you said, “Dorsey played most of the season lining up head-to-head against a guard. There’s no defensive tackle that’s going to accomplish a lot in that position.”

Why put him in a position he wont likely succeed?
As I showed earlier in the season, the chiefs initially said they wanted Dorsey to play 3-technique and be disruptive. Later on they said that they want him to take on blockers and gap control. Those are 2 seperate (and opposite) things.

Here is incompetence:
moving your starting RDT to DE
playing a rookie 2/3s of the snaps
switching from 3-tech to 2gap control

The problem with the chiefs is they never figured out how to best utilize their front 7. They were moving players around all season long. Incompetence, and that is why nearly the entire D coaching staff is gone or will be gone.

]]> By: Phillip http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11696 Phillip Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:56:05 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11696 Thank You Bob! As a fan, it's nice to see the whole thing written out and the stats to back it up. Hopefully Jason Whitlock has seen this and this has changed his perception of Glenn Dorsey. Thank You Bob! As a fan, it’s nice to see the whole thing written out and the stats to back it up. Hopefully Jason Whitlock has seen this and this has changed his perception of Glenn Dorsey.

]]> By: JohnNdallas http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11690 JohnNdallas Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:21:12 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11690 Well said Tim, Maybe you were hinting at this also, KC has far to often in the past drafted better athletes over better football players. Athleticism is great, but the guys gotta be a football player. That's why I say trade D Johnson if they can. Well said Tim, Maybe you were hinting at this also,

KC has far to often in the past drafted better athletes over better football players.

Athleticism is great, but the guys gotta be a football player.

That’s why I say trade D Johnson if they can.

]]> By: ll http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11688 ll Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:05:52 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11688 He was a non-factor to many times. Tackles and sacks can be meaningless stats. What bothered me was watching him get blown off the ball nearly every play. Its early but I think he will prove to have been a mistake. He was a non-factor to many times. Tackles and sacks can be meaningless stats. What bothered me was watching him get blown off the ball nearly every play. Its early but I think he will prove to have been a mistake.

]]> By: Merwin http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11685 Merwin Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:58:55 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11685 I also felt Dorsey was a great pick up at the #5 pick. I was thinking along the same lines as the draft evaluators who said the only difference between Dorsey and Ellis was the questions about Dorsey's health. I am glad to see that he held up well over a 16 game season. As well as having a good productive year, compared to Ellis, even if the supporting staff was not as good on the Chiefs. I also felt Dorsey was a great pick up at the #5 pick. I was thinking along the same lines as the draft evaluators who said the only difference between Dorsey and Ellis was the questions about Dorsey’s health. I am glad to see that he held up well over a 16 game season. As well as having a good productive year, compared to Ellis, even if the supporting staff was not as good on the Chiefs.

]]> By: Tim http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11684 Tim Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:57:21 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11684 I think Dorsey is absolutely a talent with determination & character. The problem is the Chiefs too often draft merely for talent rather than a football player that can "fit" into what they're trying to do. As Bob indicated in his analysis, Dorsey's mission at LSU was to go laterally to point of attack, but we need somebody that can penetrate. Our talent evaluators obviously felt he could do that. The jury is still out. THIS is why the NEs of the league do better. They draft a player for what they feel he can do for them within their scheme & what they want to do, not merely a 40 time or a measurement. KC has drafted a lot of very talented players, physically. The problem has been too few of them have been able to play football consistently in the scheme we've used. This is a BIG disconnect. This is hopefully what Pioli will "cure" with his presence, experience & people. I think Dorsey is absolutely a talent with determination & character. The problem is the Chiefs too often draft merely for talent rather than a football player that can “fit” into what they’re trying to do. As Bob indicated in his analysis, Dorsey’s mission at LSU was to go laterally to point of attack, but we need somebody that can penetrate. Our talent evaluators obviously felt he could do that. The jury is still out.

THIS is why the NEs of the league do better. They draft a player for what they feel he can do for them within their scheme & what they want to do, not merely a 40 time or a measurement.

KC has drafted a lot of very talented players, physically. The problem has been too few of them have been able to play football consistently in the scheme we’ve used. This is a BIG disconnect. This is hopefully what Pioli will “cure” with his presence, experience & people.

]]> By: JohnNdallas http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11683 JohnNdallas Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:53:38 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11683 I'd agree with you Double A, but imo Johnson doesn't meet that criteria. I’d agree with you Double A, but imo Johnson doesn’t meet that criteria.

]]> By: Double A http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11680 Double A Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:41:43 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11680 The Chiefs should not be trading away any more of their best players. The worst franchises in the NFL do that. The Chiefs should not be trading away any more of their best players. The worst franchises in the NFL do that.

]]> By: mark http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11677 mark Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:34:01 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11677 carl M. I specifically said Dorsey WASN'T a bust, so please read better next time. If he plays the same way in year 2 that he did in year 1, THEN, we can start thinking about the B word. I'm anticipating he shows great imprioovement with a better Head Coach and a more aggressive scheme. carl M. I specifically said Dorsey WASN’T a bust, so please read better next time. If he plays the same way in year 2 that he did in year 1, THEN, we can start thinking about the B word. I’m anticipating he shows great imprioovement with a better Head Coach and a more aggressive scheme.

]]> By: JohnNdallas http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11674 JohnNdallas Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:46:34 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11674 I'm gonna get hammerd for this, but the best LB on the roster is Boiman. I like Williams too, he's a tuff guy, can always use those. I'd trade DJ in a heart beat. I’m gonna get hammerd for this, but the best LB on the roster is Boiman. I like Williams too, he’s a tuff guy, can always use those.

I’d trade DJ in a heart beat.

]]> By: Double A http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11673 Double A Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:44:09 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11673 One of the worst things that can happen out of a truly crappy year is the organization and it's fans blaming or unduly criticizing it's best players. When I hear criticism of Dorsey or Derrick Johnson, this is what I think. People! Let's not run 'em out of town! Dwayne Bowe had a poor year, but a lot of criticism leveled at him right now is wrong also. One of the worst things that can happen out of a truly crappy year is the organization and it’s fans blaming or unduly criticizing it’s best players.

When I hear criticism of Dorsey or Derrick Johnson, this is what I think. People! Let’s not run ‘em out of town!

Dwayne Bowe had a poor year, but a lot of criticism leveled at him right now is wrong also.

]]> By: Alex K http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11672 Alex K Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:38:07 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11672 I agree, the linebackers really held back some of the play of tyler and dorsey...This is why I still feel if KC goes LB/LB 1/2, I wont be shocked... I agree, the linebackers really held back some of the play of tyler and dorsey…This is why I still feel if KC goes LB/LB 1/2, I wont be shocked…

]]> By: TXCHIEFAN http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11669 TXCHIEFAN Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:23:44 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11669 Excellent breakdown. I think given a couple of years experience, he will be a long term pro-bowler. Bust? That's crazy talk by frustrated blabbermouths trying to get the coaches fired as incompetent. Sad. Thanks for "officially" setting the record straight. Excellent breakdown. I think given a couple of years experience, he will be a long term pro-bowler. Bust? That’s crazy talk by frustrated blabbermouths trying to get the coaches fired as incompetent. Sad.

Thanks for “officially” setting the record straight.

]]> By: Danny Patterson http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11660 Danny Patterson Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:34:39 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11660 The bottom line is that Dorsey is a huge talent and the chiefs are a better team with him on the field. Putting better players around him will only help him as he gains experience. The bottom line is that Dorsey is a huge talent and the chiefs are a better team with him on the field. Putting better players around him will only help him as he gains experience.

]]> By: P Baird http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11657 P Baird Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:28:28 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11657 Great read Bob, this is the type of thing the fans want to hear, the truth! Great read Bob, this is the type of thing the fans want to hear, the truth!

]]> By: J Peso http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11641 J Peso Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:05:53 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11641 I loved the Dorsey pick, and I still do. He needs help. Bottom line. Let us not forget our entire front seven stunk! IMO Dorsey needs to hit the weight room and work on his technique. The one thing I love about this kid is his HEART. I think our new D coordinator will utilize him correctly and he will live up to his potential. Imagine him with Peppers and Suggs on both sides and there is the HAVOC you guys are seeking. I think our entire defense will make a huge turn around next year and this BUST talk of Dorsey will be a distant memory. Love the Post Bob, You know your stuff. Keep it up. I loved the Dorsey pick, and I still do. He needs help. Bottom line. Let us not forget our entire front seven stunk! IMO Dorsey needs to hit the weight room and work on his technique. The one thing I love about this kid is his HEART. I think our new D coordinator will utilize him correctly and he will live up to his potential. Imagine him with Peppers and Suggs on both sides and there is the HAVOC you guys are seeking. I think our entire defense will make a huge turn around next year and this BUST talk of Dorsey will be a distant memory. Love the Post Bob, You know your stuff. Keep it up.

]]> By: Carlm http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11639 Carlm Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:34:46 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11639 JP Dorsey and Boone got a couple of knockdowns. But when your line is knocking down passes means they didn't do their job and get to the quarterback. Mark sorry to hear that your calling a rookie a bust already and yes you just did. He was brought in to be a defensive tackle not a defensive end. He's a rookie. Two more years if he hasn't improved then call him a bust. Your one of those that has to have it right now people aren't you? What needs improvement is the help on the line. Why is Albert Haynesworth one of the best tackles in the game? He has others who help him. Why was Warren Sapp so disruptive? the same reason. Quit blaming the guy because you want something right now. Are you an expert in anything? How long did it take you to be an expert? Saying that there is two things he has to work on disrupting and penetrating. What is that exactly? What he needs to improve on is strength, second step and experience. In a 4-3 the tackles are not the defensive ends. The ends are to be the ones suppose to be the disruptors. Tackles are suppose to catch the double teams and push the pockets back. That will come with experience. Most of the year he did not play against first or second year guards and centers. Out of the 76% total snaps he took 50% of the time he was not double teamed. But him taking 76% of the snaps makes a tackle very worn out very quickly. he should be at about 60-65% maybe 70% of the snaps not 76%. That means the Coordinator and the other players weren't helping. And he is a ROOKIE. JP Dorsey and Boone got a couple of knockdowns. But when your line is knocking down passes means they didn’t do their job and get to the quarterback. Mark sorry to hear that your calling a rookie a bust already and yes you just did. He was brought in to be a defensive tackle not a defensive end. He’s a rookie. Two more years if he hasn’t improved then call him a bust. Your one of those that has to have it right now people aren’t you? What needs improvement is the help on the line. Why is Albert Haynesworth one of the best tackles in the game? He has others who help him. Why was Warren Sapp so disruptive? the same reason. Quit blaming the guy because you want something right now. Are you an expert in anything? How long did it take you to be an expert? Saying that there is two things he has to work on disrupting and penetrating. What is that exactly? What he needs to improve on is strength, second step and experience. In a 4-3 the tackles are not the defensive ends. The ends are to be the ones suppose to be the disruptors. Tackles are suppose to catch the double teams and push the pockets back. That will come with experience. Most of the year he did not play against first or second year guards and centers. Out of the 76% total snaps he took 50% of the time he was not double teamed. But him taking 76% of the snaps makes a tackle very worn out very quickly. he should be at about 60-65% maybe 70% of the snaps not 76%. That means the Coordinator and the other players weren’t helping. And he is a ROOKIE.

]]> By: JP http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11636 JP Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:14:13 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11636 Slightly off the subject, but do any of you remember any D lineman block a pass. You watch a team like the Ravens of Steeler's and you see a few each game. However, the Chiefs line seemed like they were not coached to put their arms up. Anyone else notice this? Slightly off the subject, but do any of you remember any D lineman block a pass. You watch a team like the Ravens of Steeler’s and you see a few each game. However, the Chiefs line seemed like they were not coached to put their arms up. Anyone else notice this?

]]> By: Devildog1976 http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11635 Devildog1976 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:02:45 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11635 Nice bit of info! If I am a crappy DT or DEand I am next to #72. The other guys get to dbl. and triple team #72 and his production is low it is my fault not his? Right? Then what grade do the rest of our DL get?? Or was it the guy in the yellow glasses on his way to MOTOWN? ( I never did like the yellow glasses ) Bye Gun don't let the door hit ya!! Nice bit of info! If I am a crappy DT or DEand I am next to #72. The other guys get to dbl. and triple team #72 and his production is low it is my fault not his? Right? Then what grade do the rest of our DL get?? Or was it the guy in the yellow glasses on his way to MOTOWN? ( I never did like the yellow glasses ) Bye Gun don’t let the door hit ya!!

]]> By: Mark http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11634 Mark Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:54:55 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11634 No one expected Dorsey to be a big sacker. But we did expect him to be a disruptor, and he just wasn't. He was rarely in the backfield. How many tackles for losses did he have? That's where he was, indeed, a major disappointment, and Bob himself said he may have been utilized incorrectly, and Waters affirmed that in Whitless's article. So I'm not exactly sure why Jason is being ripped apart for saying basically the same things Bob is saying. That Dorsey needs to improve by alot. Hopefully he can, because if he doesn't, the B word might be accurrate during his 2nd year. It never is in a rookie's 1st year. Tackle stats are irrelevant, it's penatration and big, game changing plays, that count for a top DT. Dorsey needs to improve big time in both of those areas. He was drafted to be a penetrator and a disrptor, not a guy making alot of tackles 5 yards downfield after getting blown off the line of scrimmage, and too often by a single blocker. BTW, I loved and fully supported the pick, but that doesn't mean I can't acknowledge that Dorsey was a disappointment so far and must raise his game by a ton to live up to what a to 5 pick is supposed to be. No one expected Dorsey to be a big sacker. But we did expect him to be a disruptor, and he just wasn’t. He was rarely in the backfield. How many tackles for losses did he have? That’s where he was, indeed, a major disappointment, and Bob himself said he may have been utilized incorrectly, and Waters affirmed that in Whitless’s article. So I’m not exactly sure why Jason is being ripped apart for saying basically the same things Bob is saying. That Dorsey needs to improve by alot. Hopefully he can, because if he doesn’t, the B word might be accurrate during his 2nd year. It never is in a rookie’s 1st year. Tackle stats are irrelevant, it’s penatration and big, game changing plays, that count for a top DT. Dorsey needs to improve big time in both of those areas. He was drafted to be a penetrator and a disrptor, not a guy making alot of tackles 5 yards downfield after getting blown off the line of scrimmage, and too often by a single blocker. BTW, I loved and fully supported the pick, but that doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge that Dorsey was a disappointment so far and must raise his game by a ton to live up to what a to 5 pick is supposed to be.

]]> By: Skrappy http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11633 Skrappy Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:51:53 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11633 Dorsey will be a factor next year. I agree, Every team in the NFL was drooling over Dorsey last year, as were the analists. If he isn't one of the most dominating defensive linemen in the NFL, they they will all have to eat crow! Dorsey will be a factor next year.

I agree, Every team in the NFL was drooling over Dorsey last year, as were the analists. If he isn’t one of the most dominating defensive linemen in the NFL, they they will all have to eat crow!

]]> By: Carlm http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11626 Carlm Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:56:17 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11626 This is an edit to my post Hovan's Tampa Bay bucs didn't go to the super bowl till 2003. He was a Tony Dungy pick. This is an edit to my post Hovan’s Tampa Bay bucs didn’t go to the super bowl till 2003. He was a Tony Dungy pick.

]]> By: Big John http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11625 Big John Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:45:43 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11625 Well done Bob. Awesome article with lots and lots of data to back up your points. Wish other sports writers could be so informative instead of throwing out opinions with no facts to back their opinions up. But hey that is why I visit this web site. GO BOB GO! GO CHIEFs! Well done Bob. Awesome article with lots and lots of data to back up your points. Wish other sports writers could be so informative instead of throwing out opinions with no facts to back their opinions up. But hey that is why I visit this web site. GO BOB GO! GO CHIEFs!

]]> By: Carlm http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11624 Carlm Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:39:47 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11624 You can see Sapp's statistics here http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SappWa00.htm Here is another data site but they don't give tackle stats unfortunately http://www.footballdb.com/index.html You can see Sapp’s statistics here
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SappWa00.htm
Here is another data site but they don’t give tackle stats unfortunately
http://www.footballdb.com/index.html

]]> By: Carlm http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11623 Carlm Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:32:25 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11623 Rip how much more production would you have liked to see from a rookie defensive tackle? There wasn't another rookie tackle out there that even came close to his production this year. Chris Hovan plays for Tampa Bay who's supporting cast when he came out went to the super bowl the next year. Gerard Warren had Darrell Russell one of Oaklands best defensive tackles to help him out. John Henderson had marco coleman, Akin Ayodele, Tony Brackens, Marcus stroud for his support. Who did we have to help Glenn "Big D"? Not much Tank is not much more than a rookie. Hali was stuck on the wrong side of the line to start out and Boone is a backup not much more. The line needs help badly. But to bash Dorsey saying he needed more production is ridiculous. Warren Sapp who a lot of people say Big D looks like only started 8 games his rookie year he was also selected in the first round at #12. His first year he only had 17tackles his second year he only had 41. No supporting cast equals 50% of the time he gets double teamed and has to play 76% of the snaps not good for a tackle. Rip how much more production would you have liked to see from a rookie defensive tackle? There wasn’t another rookie tackle out there that even came close to his production this year. Chris Hovan plays for Tampa Bay who’s supporting cast when he came out went to the super bowl the next year. Gerard Warren had Darrell Russell one of Oaklands best defensive tackles to help him out. John Henderson had marco coleman, Akin Ayodele, Tony Brackens, Marcus stroud for his support. Who did we have to help Glenn “Big D”? Not much Tank is not much more than a rookie. Hali was stuck on the wrong side of the line to start out and Boone is a backup not much more. The line needs help badly. But to bash Dorsey saying he needed more production is ridiculous. Warren Sapp who a lot of people say Big D looks like only started 8 games his rookie year he was also selected in the first round at #12. His first year he only had 17tackles his second year he only had 41. No supporting cast equals 50% of the time he gets double teamed and has to play 76% of the snaps not good for a tackle.

]]> By: colby http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11622 colby Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:26:21 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11622 I'd say the most important thing is that Dorsey's lack big plays was not due to lack of effort. He seemed to be playing his heart out all season and Bob confirms that observation and that's good enough for me. Anyone who thinks Dorsey should have produced even half the sacks Jared Allen did is a fool. DTs aren't necessarily even supposed to register many sacks. John Randle and Warren Sapp are two very rare exceptions to the rule. I'd think that 2-5 sacks a year is just fine so long as he's controlling his gaps and drawing double teams. I think he'll improve and be a much better player in 2009. I’d say the most important thing is that Dorsey’s lack big plays was not due to lack of effort. He seemed to be playing his heart out all season and Bob confirms that observation and that’s good enough for me. Anyone who thinks Dorsey should have produced even half the sacks Jared Allen did is a fool. DTs aren’t necessarily even supposed to register many sacks. John Randle and Warren Sapp are two very rare exceptions to the rule. I’d think that 2-5 sacks a year is just fine so long as he’s controlling his gaps and drawing double teams. I think he’ll improve and be a much better player in 2009.

]]> By: Carlm http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11620 Carlm Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:35:49 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11620 Thanks Bob. You have validated what several of us have been saying for a while. I wish we had another tackle that could relieve him some. That 76% is pretty high. No wonder he looked sluggish at times. Maybe we can find one in free agency that will help. Hopefully next year that gets dropped some. Thanks Bob. You have validated what several of us have been saying for a while. I wish we had another tackle that could relieve him some. That 76% is pretty high. No wonder he looked sluggish at times. Maybe we can find one in free agency that will help. Hopefully next year that gets dropped some.

]]> By: Rip 'em a new one http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11619 Rip 'em a new one Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:22:00 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11619 At least Dorsey played in his rook season, unlike Vernon Gholston of the Jets, taken one pick behind Glenn. I do think a new scheme that plays the strengths he displayed in college would help him be more of a factor in his second season. Of course, being a second year player instead of a rook will most likely help a great deal as well. Still, you have to think Dorsey and his spot taken in the draft would have produced better results this past season. At least Dorsey played in his rook season, unlike Vernon Gholston of the Jets, taken one pick behind Glenn. I do think a new scheme that plays the strengths he displayed in college would help him be more of a factor in his second season.

Of course, being a second year player instead of a rook will most likely help a great deal as well. Still, you have to think Dorsey and his spot taken in the draft would have produced better results this past season.

]]> By: MDchief http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11618 MDchief Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:11:30 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11618 I haven't heard anyone who knows what they're talking about call Dorsey a bust. The only person I've heard talk like that is Jason Whitless, and he's the personification of "agenda journalism." I haven’t heard anyone who knows what they’re talking about call Dorsey a bust. The only person I’ve heard talk like that is Jason Whitless, and he’s the personification of “agenda journalism.”

]]> By: jim lloyd http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11616 jim lloyd Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:45:58 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11616 Now is where the hard to think about a 3-4 could have a good light . With Dorsey being double teamed , this open a lot of gaps. Herm needs 2 more line backers like Peppers or Lewis ,I said LIKE ! Cant bring in a free agent , or he might join -----------just need to git rid of Larry . Now is where the hard to think about a 3-4 could have a good light . With Dorsey being double teamed , this open a lot of gaps.
Herm needs 2 more line backers like Peppers or Lewis ,I said LIKE !
Cant bring in a free agent , or he might join ———–just need to git rid of Larry .

]]> By: Josh http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11615 Josh Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:43:10 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11615 Sorry couldn't help myself... HE IS WHO WE THOUGHT WE WAS... lol ok I m done. JB Sorry couldn’t help myself… HE IS WHO WE THOUGHT WE WAS… lol ok I m done.

JB

]]> By: Brian http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11614 Brian Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:42:05 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11614 Ryan Sims never had more than 38 tackles a season and has averaged 15 per season during his NFL tenure. There is no comparison. Dorsey will do well this next season. Ryan Sims never had more than 38 tackles a season and has averaged 15 per season during his NFL tenure. There is no comparison. Dorsey will do well this next season.

]]> By: B in SC http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11612 B in SC Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:33:03 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11612 The best point you made Bob was that he is being asked to do something he wasn't tasked with at LSU. He is almost learning a new position. A dominant DE would certainly help get some of the double team off of him some of the time and would also open up lanes for blitzes, stunts, etc. It all has to come together to work. He may yet be a bust, but rarely can you evaluate a player after only a year or two. He could also be the player we thought he would be. The best point you made Bob was that he is being asked to do something he wasn’t tasked with at LSU. He is almost learning a new position. A dominant DE would certainly help get some of the double team off of him some of the time and would also open up lanes for blitzes, stunts, etc. It all has to come together to work.

He may yet be a bust, but rarely can you evaluate a player after only a year or two. He could also be the player we thought he would be.

]]> By: Josh http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11611 Josh Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:32:01 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11611 Great article - man I am fired up now, cannot wait for next year to get here lol its still January. JB Great article – man I am fired up now, cannot wait for next year to get here lol its still January.

JB

]]> By: Chuck Diesel http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11609 Chuck Diesel Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:16:59 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11609 That's the kind of stuff i've been wanting to say all season but never had the opportunity or drive to get the words down cohesively enough to post. anyway ill leave the long articles to the experts.. How would dorsey do in a 3-4? That’s the kind of stuff i’ve been wanting to say all season but never had the opportunity or drive to get the words down cohesively enough to post. anyway ill leave the long articles to the experts..

How would dorsey do in a 3-4?

]]> By: MarkInTexas http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11605 MarkInTexas Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:49:04 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11605 Absolutely agree with John, that's good stuff Bob. I'm optimistic, albeit cautiously, that a new coordinator can mine Dorsey's upside. Putting stronger talent around him will help too. Absolutely agree with John, that’s good stuff Bob. I’m optimistic, albeit cautiously, that a new coordinator can mine Dorsey’s upside. Putting stronger talent around him will help too.

]]> By: Steve http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11604 Steve Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:42:09 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11604 Bob, I would only add one thing to your excellent statistical analysis. All the experts -- and I mean all of them -- thought Dorsey was a great pick and a can't miss prospect. If he doesn't work out (something I really doubt), it will be a "blunder" by every talent evaluator in the NFL, not just the Chiefs. Any of the pundits who question the pick now need to go back and show me where they trashed the pick when it was made. They are all very good at offering "expert analysis" after the fact. Bob,
I would only add one thing to your excellent statistical analysis. All the experts — and I mean all of them — thought Dorsey was a great pick and a can’t miss prospect. If he doesn’t work out (something I really doubt), it will be a “blunder” by every talent evaluator in the NFL, not just the Chiefs. Any of the pundits who question the pick now need to go back and show me where they trashed the pick when it was made. They are all very good at offering “expert analysis” after the fact.

]]> By: JohnNdallas http://www.bobgretz.com/chiefs-football/a-rush-to-judgment.html#comment-11602 JohnNdallas Thu, 22 Jan 2009 00:32:07 +0000 http://www.bobgretz.com/?p=6555#comment-11602 OUTSTANDING Bob!!!! Couldn't agree more! That's good stuff guys! That's the type of thread that keeps me coming back. OUTSTANDING Bob!!!!

Couldn’t agree more! That’s good stuff guys!

That’s the type of thread that keeps me coming back.

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