A Rush to Judgment
Probably because it fit the storyline that hung over the 2008 Chiefs, Glenn Dorsey has already been declared a first-round bust by various fans and pundits. Some have even compared him to the definition of first-round failure in Kansas City’s football encyclopedia: Ryan Sims.
Did Dorsey have a great rookie season? No. Did he have a horrible first year in the NFL? No.
Was his maiden voyage in pro football waters pretty much the norm for a rookie defensive tackle? Absolutely.
So why has he already been declared a bust?
Now there’s a good question, and I’ve got the answer. This reaction is based not on fact or reality, but agenda and perception.
Agenda – It helps wrap up the whole the Chiefs have been incompetent package if Dorsey is a bad player. Here’s the plot thread: Dorsey is the highest pick the team has had in nearly 20 years, but the opportunity to get a great player was screwed up by the two villains in this passion play – Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards. According to some, Dorsey is a midget at DT who had no business being drafted that high and thus he’ll never amount to anything. That whole view is built on one premise: it’s a chance to throw another log on the bonfire of Chiefs ineptitude.
Perception – A fifth pick in the first round should come in as a dominating player and if he’s a defensive lineman, he should have multiple sacks and cause havoc in every game. The Chiefs got rid of Jared Allen and Glenn Dorsey was supposed to pick up the slack on sacks.
I’m not going to waste my time dealing with agenda journalism, other than to make this note: Dorsey is 6-foot, 1 inch. That’s not the Chiefs measurement. That’s the measurement of the National Scouting Service people. Part of National’s duties is to provide accurate physical information on individual players. Dorsey has not shrunk, although with the verbal and written pounding that he’s taken it wouldn’t be a shock if he was a bit smaller.
But rest assured, Dorsey is tall enough.
As for perception, I’m not sure why anybody believed that Dorsey was going to come in and start sacking quarterbacks left and right. Jared Allen’s play at defensive end had nothing to do with a rookie’s play at defensive tackle.
Allen came out of Idaho State where he played 41 games and had 38.5 sacks. He was drafted because of his pass rushing ability. I know this fairy tale has developed that he was drafted as a deep snapper and the Chiefs only learned he could rush the passer once he was on the roster. That’s a load. He was drafted because he had a history of getting to the passer and he would have been drafted higher, but his off-field record at Idaho State scared some teams off. Plus, he played at the Division 1-AA level, not major college football.
At Louisiana State, Dorsey played at the highest levels of the sport. But he was never considered a pass rusher; few defensive tackles in college and pro football have big sack numbers.
Here are the top defensive tackle single season sacks numbers over the last five years (2004-08) in the NFL:
|  Player |  Team |  Season |  Sacks | League Rank |
| Rod Coleman | Atlanta |
2004Â |
11.5Â |
T-6 |
| Kevin Williams | Minnesota |
2004Â |
11.5Â |
T-6 |
| Rod Coleman | Atlanta |
2005Â |
10.5Â |
T-11 |
| Warren Sapp | Oakland |
2006Â |
10Â |
T-16 |
| Darnell Dockett | Arizona |
2007Â |
9Â |
T-19 |
| Rocky Bernard | Seattle |
2005Â |
8.5Â |
T-21 |
| Albert Haynesworth | Tennessee |
2008Â |
6Â |
T-15 |
The best defensive tackle sackers in the last five years could not even reach the top five in any season. Only two got into the top 10. Defensive tackles have other duties beyond rushing the passer.
In 51 games at LSU, Dorsey had 13 sacks, with more than half of those coming in his senior season (7). The Chiefs drafted him knowing he needed to work on his pass rush.
Still they selected him because of the other things he showed at LSU. That was his ability to disrupt things at the line of scrimmage, his ability to close two gaps in the run defense and the propensity of teams to double team him, thus freeing up others to make plays.
But schematically what the Chiefs asked Dorsey to do was something quite different than what he was asked to do on the college level. At LSU, he played east to west along the line of scrimmage. The scheme was to have him tangle with one, maybe two blockers, while moving laterally towards the point of attack. The Chiefs asked him to play north and south, while tying up two blockers. They wanted penetration.
Dorsey got that at times, but not on as consistent a basis as was necessary. Reasons for that were the quality of the talent he faced and his inexperience. The worst center or guard that blocked Dorsey during the ’08 season was equal to the best center or guard that may have blocked him at the college level. A veteran like Alan Faneca of the New York Jets had his way with Dorsey, but Faneca played this season as an 11-year veteran out of LSU. When they faced off, Dorsey was playing his seventh pro game out of LSU.
Dorsey finished the season taking part in 46 total tackles with one sack and one forced fumble. Yes, those are ordinary numbers.
But compared to most other first-round defensive tackles in their rookie seasons, it’s actually better than average. Here are those numbers for first-round defensive tackles taken in this decade, ranked by the year they were selected:
|  Player |  YR/Pick |
 GP |
 GS |
Tot. Tackles |
 Sacks |
Recvr. Fumble |
Forc. Fumble |
| Glenn Dorsey | 2008/5 |
16 |
16 |
46 |
1 |
0 |
1 |
| Sederick Ellis | 2008/7 |
13Â |
13Â |
30Â |
4Â |
0Â |
0Â |
| Kentwan Balmer | 2008/29 |
16Â |
0Â |
7Â |
0Â |
0Â |
0Â |
| Amobi Okoye | 2007/10 |
16Â |
14Â |
32Â |
5.5Â |
0Â |
1Â |
| Adam Carriker | 2007/13 |
16 |
16 |
30 |
2 |
1 |
0 |
| Justin Harrell | 2007/16 |
7Â |
2Â |
16Â |
0Â |
0Â |
0Â |
| Haloti Ngata | 2006/12 |
16 |
16 |
31 |
1 |
0 |
0 |
| Brodrick Bunkley | 2006/14 |
15Â |
0Â |
9Â |
0Â |
0Â |
0Â |
| John McCargo | 2006/26 |
5 |
0 |
6 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
| Travis Johnson | 2005/16 |
15 |
3 |
26 |
1 |
0 |
0 |
| Mike Patterson | 2005/31 |
16Â |
7Â |
45Â |
3.5Â |
0Â |
1Â |
| Tommie Harris | 2004/14 |
16Â |
16Â |
44 |
3.5 |
0 |
1 |
| Vince Wilfork | 2004/21 |
16Â |
6Â |
42Â |
2Â |
2Â |
0Â |
| Marcus Tubbs | 2004/23 |
11Â |
3Â |
13Â |
1Â |
0Â |
1Â |
| De. Robertson | 2003/4Â |
16Â |
16Â |
43Â |
1.5Â |
0Â |
0Â |
| Jo. Sullivan | 2003/6 |
14 |
12 |
32 |
1 |
0 |
0 |
| Jimmy Kennedy | 2003/12 |
13Â |
0Â |
2Â |
0Â |
0Â |
0Â |
| Ty Warren | 2003/13 |
16Â |
4Â |
33Â |
1Â |
0Â |
0Â |
| William Joseph | 2003/25 |
14 |
0 |
7 |
1 |
0 |
1 |
| Ryan Sims | 2002/6 |
6 |
2 |
6 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
| Wendell Bryant | 2002/12 |
14 |
4 |
20 |
1.5 |
0 |
0 |
| John Henderson | 2002/9 |
16Â |
13Â |
54Â |
6.5Â |
2Â |
1Â |
| A. Haynesworth | 2002/15 |
16 |
3 |
30 |
1 |
0 |
0 |
| Gerard Warren | 2001/3 | 15 | 15 |
61 |
5 |
0 |
0 |
| Richard Seymour | 2001/6 | 13 | 10 |
45 |
3 |
0 |
1 |
| Damione Lewis | 2001/12 | 9 | 3 |
10 |
0 |
0 |
1 |
| Marcus Stroud | 2001/13 | 16 | 0 |
25 |
0 |
0 |
0 |
| Casey Hampton | 2001/19 | 16 | 11 |
23 |
1 |
0 |
1 |
| Ryan Pickett | 2001/29 | 11 | 0 |
19 |
0.5 |
0 |
0 |
| Corey Simon | 2000/6 | 16 | 16 |
51 |
9.5 |
2 |
1 |
| Chris Hovan | 2000/25 | 16 | 13 |
48 |
2 |
0 |
0 |
So, Dorsey’s 46 total tackles rank him fifth among the 31 first-round DTs in their rookie year. His one sack ranks him tied for 14th. But note this: Ngata, Warren, Haynesworth, Stroud and Hampton are all established veteran inside players and all were shutout or had just one sack in their rookie seasons.
Plus, Dorsey was one of six in that group of 31 who started and played 16 games.
Don’t discount that last statistic. The fact he was able to take the pounding that comes with playing on the interior of the defensive line and stand up to it for 16 weeks is quite an accomplishment. Remember, Dorsey came out of LSU with injury concerns and those continued when he hurt his knee in the first weeks of training camp in Wisconsin.
But he didn’t miss a game. For a rookie defensive tackle, that’s a pretty important accomplishment. In fact, the Chiefs may have played him too much. He was on the field for something in the neighborhood of 72 percent of the snaps. When Haynesworth was a rookie with Tennessee, he saw the field on 45 percent of the snaps. Ngata played 44 percent of the snaps. Wilfork saw the field for 50 percent of the plays as a rookie.
There have been charges that the Chiefs defensive scheme hurt Dorsey and his development. There may be some truth to that. All the defensive linemen were hurt by the lack of production and talent at linebacker. The defensive front seven has to work like intertwined fingers on both hands against the run; that did not get done with the ’08 Chiefs defense and the biggest problems were at linebacker.
Dorsey played most of the season lining up head-to-head against a guard. There’s no defensive tackle that’s going to accomplish a lot in that position. Because he played on the right side of the Chiefs line, he ended up getting double-teamed at least 50 percent of the time with the center and left guard. Again, there are not many defensive tackles that are going to be able to overcome that situation.
There’s no question that Dorsey must improve. His pass rush was hampered because he’s still learning how to use his hands. He’s got a very good initial step, but his second step was lacking in ’08. Generally his first step took him forward, but his second step came to parallel and he didn’t advance against the blocker.
This is all technical stuff that he will learn and grow more accomplished at doing. Dorsey showed himself to be a hard worker, who accepted coaching and kept working hard all season. He showed hustle on the field at all times.
In short, he did exactly what you would expect from a defensive tackle taken with the fifth pick of the NFL Draft.
Those that call him a bust know not of what they speak. The rush to judgment on Glenn Dorsey is sad testimony of what happens when agenda and perception trump fact.
OUTSTANDING Bob!!!!
Couldn’t agree more! That’s good stuff guys!
That’s the type of thread that keeps me coming back.
Bob,
I would only add one thing to your excellent statistical analysis. All the experts — and I mean all of them — thought Dorsey was a great pick and a can’t miss prospect. If he doesn’t work out (something I really doubt), it will be a “blunder” by every talent evaluator in the NFL, not just the Chiefs. Any of the pundits who question the pick now need to go back and show me where they trashed the pick when it was made. They are all very good at offering “expert analysis” after the fact.
Absolutely agree with John, that’s good stuff Bob. I’m optimistic, albeit cautiously, that a new coordinator can mine Dorsey’s upside. Putting stronger talent around him will help too.
That’s the kind of stuff i’ve been wanting to say all season but never had the opportunity or drive to get the words down cohesively enough to post. anyway ill leave the long articles to the experts..
How would dorsey do in a 3-4?
Great article – man I am fired up now, cannot wait for next year to get here lol its still January.
JB
The best point you made Bob was that he is being asked to do something he wasn’t tasked with at LSU. He is almost learning a new position. A dominant DE would certainly help get some of the double team off of him some of the time and would also open up lanes for blitzes, stunts, etc. It all has to come together to work.
He may yet be a bust, but rarely can you evaluate a player after only a year or two. He could also be the player we thought he would be.
Ryan Sims never had more than 38 tackles a season and has averaged 15 per season during his NFL tenure. There is no comparison. Dorsey will do well this next season.
Sorry couldn’t help myself… HE IS WHO WE THOUGHT WE WAS… lol ok I m done.
JB
Now is where the hard to think about a 3-4 could have a good light . With Dorsey being double teamed , this open a lot of gaps.
Herm needs 2 more line backers like Peppers or Lewis ,I said LIKE !
Cant bring in a free agent , or he might join ———–just need to git rid of Larry .
I haven’t heard anyone who knows what they’re talking about call Dorsey a bust. The only person I’ve heard talk like that is Jason Whitless, and he’s the personification of “agenda journalism.”
At least Dorsey played in his rook season, unlike Vernon Gholston of the Jets, taken one pick behind Glenn. I do think a new scheme that plays the strengths he displayed in college would help him be more of a factor in his second season.
Of course, being a second year player instead of a rook will most likely help a great deal as well. Still, you have to think Dorsey and his spot taken in the draft would have produced better results this past season.
Thanks Bob. You have validated what several of us have been saying for a while. I wish we had another tackle that could relieve him some. That 76% is pretty high. No wonder he looked sluggish at times. Maybe we can find one in free agency that will help. Hopefully next year that gets dropped some.
I’d say the most important thing is that Dorsey’s lack big plays was not due to lack of effort. He seemed to be playing his heart out all season and Bob confirms that observation and that’s good enough for me. Anyone who thinks Dorsey should have produced even half the sacks Jared Allen did is a fool. DTs aren’t necessarily even supposed to register many sacks. John Randle and Warren Sapp are two very rare exceptions to the rule. I’d think that 2-5 sacks a year is just fine so long as he’s controlling his gaps and drawing double teams. I think he’ll improve and be a much better player in 2009.
Rip how much more production would you have liked to see from a rookie defensive tackle? There wasn’t another rookie tackle out there that even came close to his production this year. Chris Hovan plays for Tampa Bay who’s supporting cast when he came out went to the super bowl the next year. Gerard Warren had Darrell Russell one of Oaklands best defensive tackles to help him out. John Henderson had marco coleman, Akin Ayodele, Tony Brackens, Marcus stroud for his support. Who did we have to help Glenn “Big D”? Not much Tank is not much more than a rookie. Hali was stuck on the wrong side of the line to start out and Boone is a backup not much more. The line needs help badly. But to bash Dorsey saying he needed more production is ridiculous. Warren Sapp who a lot of people say Big D looks like only started 8 games his rookie year he was also selected in the first round at #12. His first year he only had 17tackles his second year he only had 41. No supporting cast equals 50% of the time he gets double teamed and has to play 76% of the snaps not good for a tackle.
You can see Sapp’s statistics here
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SappWa00.htm
Here is another data site but they don’t give tackle stats unfortunately
http://www.footballdb.com/index.html
Well done Bob. Awesome article with lots and lots of data to back up your points. Wish other sports writers could be so informative instead of throwing out opinions with no facts to back their opinions up. But hey that is why I visit this web site. GO BOB GO! GO CHIEFs!
This is an edit to my post Hovan’s Tampa Bay bucs didn’t go to the super bowl till 2003. He was a Tony Dungy pick.
Dorsey will be a factor next year.
I agree, Every team in the NFL was drooling over Dorsey last year, as were the analists. If he isn’t one of the most dominating defensive linemen in the NFL, they they will all have to eat crow!
No one expected Dorsey to be a big sacker. But we did expect him to be a disruptor, and he just wasn’t. He was rarely in the backfield. How many tackles for losses did he have? That’s where he was, indeed, a major disappointment, and Bob himself said he may have been utilized incorrectly, and Waters affirmed that in Whitless’s article. So I’m not exactly sure why Jason is being ripped apart for saying basically the same things Bob is saying. That Dorsey needs to improve by alot. Hopefully he can, because if he doesn’t, the B word might be accurrate during his 2nd year. It never is in a rookie’s 1st year. Tackle stats are irrelevant, it’s penatration and big, game changing plays, that count for a top DT. Dorsey needs to improve big time in both of those areas. He was drafted to be a penetrator and a disrptor, not a guy making alot of tackles 5 yards downfield after getting blown off the line of scrimmage, and too often by a single blocker. BTW, I loved and fully supported the pick, but that doesn’t mean I can’t acknowledge that Dorsey was a disappointment so far and must raise his game by a ton to live up to what a to 5 pick is supposed to be.
Nice bit of info! If I am a crappy DT or DEand I am next to #72. The other guys get to dbl. and triple team #72 and his production is low it is my fault not his? Right? Then what grade do the rest of our DL get?? Or was it the guy in the yellow glasses on his way to MOTOWN? ( I never did like the yellow glasses ) Bye Gun don’t let the door hit ya!!
Slightly off the subject, but do any of you remember any D lineman block a pass. You watch a team like the Ravens of Steeler’s and you see a few each game. However, the Chiefs line seemed like they were not coached to put their arms up. Anyone else notice this?
JP Dorsey and Boone got a couple of knockdowns. But when your line is knocking down passes means they didn’t do their job and get to the quarterback. Mark sorry to hear that your calling a rookie a bust already and yes you just did. He was brought in to be a defensive tackle not a defensive end. He’s a rookie. Two more years if he hasn’t improved then call him a bust. Your one of those that has to have it right now people aren’t you? What needs improvement is the help on the line. Why is Albert Haynesworth one of the best tackles in the game? He has others who help him. Why was Warren Sapp so disruptive? the same reason. Quit blaming the guy because you want something right now. Are you an expert in anything? How long did it take you to be an expert? Saying that there is two things he has to work on disrupting and penetrating. What is that exactly? What he needs to improve on is strength, second step and experience. In a 4-3 the tackles are not the defensive ends. The ends are to be the ones suppose to be the disruptors. Tackles are suppose to catch the double teams and push the pockets back. That will come with experience. Most of the year he did not play against first or second year guards and centers. Out of the 76% total snaps he took 50% of the time he was not double teamed. But him taking 76% of the snaps makes a tackle very worn out very quickly. he should be at about 60-65% maybe 70% of the snaps not 76%. That means the Coordinator and the other players weren’t helping. And he is a ROOKIE.
I loved the Dorsey pick, and I still do. He needs help. Bottom line. Let us not forget our entire front seven stunk! IMO Dorsey needs to hit the weight room and work on his technique. The one thing I love about this kid is his HEART. I think our new D coordinator will utilize him correctly and he will live up to his potential. Imagine him with Peppers and Suggs on both sides and there is the HAVOC you guys are seeking. I think our entire defense will make a huge turn around next year and this BUST talk of Dorsey will be a distant memory. Love the Post Bob, You know your stuff. Keep it up.
Great read Bob, this is the type of thing the fans want to hear, the truth!
The bottom line is that Dorsey is a huge talent and the chiefs are a better team with him on the field. Putting better players around him will only help him as he gains experience.
Excellent breakdown. I think given a couple of years experience, he will be a long term pro-bowler. Bust? That’s crazy talk by frustrated blabbermouths trying to get the coaches fired as incompetent. Sad.
Thanks for “officially” setting the record straight.
I agree, the linebackers really held back some of the play of tyler and dorsey…This is why I still feel if KC goes LB/LB 1/2, I wont be shocked…
One of the worst things that can happen out of a truly crappy year is the organization and it’s fans blaming or unduly criticizing it’s best players.
When I hear criticism of Dorsey or Derrick Johnson, this is what I think. People! Let’s not run ‘em out of town!
Dwayne Bowe had a poor year, but a lot of criticism leveled at him right now is wrong also.
I’m gonna get hammerd for this, but the best LB on the roster is Boiman. I like Williams too, he’s a tuff guy, can always use those.
I’d trade DJ in a heart beat.
carl M. I specifically said Dorsey WASN’T a bust, so please read better next time. If he plays the same way in year 2 that he did in year 1, THEN, we can start thinking about the B word. I’m anticipating he shows great imprioovement with a better Head Coach and a more aggressive scheme.
The Chiefs should not be trading away any more of their best players. The worst franchises in the NFL do that.
I’d agree with you Double A, but imo Johnson doesn’t meet that criteria.
I think Dorsey is absolutely a talent with determination & character. The problem is the Chiefs too often draft merely for talent rather than a football player that can “fit” into what they’re trying to do. As Bob indicated in his analysis, Dorsey’s mission at LSU was to go laterally to point of attack, but we need somebody that can penetrate. Our talent evaluators obviously felt he could do that. The jury is still out.
THIS is why the NEs of the league do better. They draft a player for what they feel he can do for them within their scheme & what they want to do, not merely a 40 time or a measurement.
KC has drafted a lot of very talented players, physically. The problem has been too few of them have been able to play football consistently in the scheme we’ve used. This is a BIG disconnect. This is hopefully what Pioli will “cure” with his presence, experience & people.
I also felt Dorsey was a great pick up at the #5 pick. I was thinking along the same lines as the draft evaluators who said the only difference between Dorsey and Ellis was the questions about Dorsey’s health. I am glad to see that he held up well over a 16 game season. As well as having a good productive year, compared to Ellis, even if the supporting staff was not as good on the Chiefs.
He was a non-factor to many times. Tackles and sacks can be meaningless stats. What bothered me was watching him get blown off the ball nearly every play. Its early but I think he will prove to have been a mistake.
Well said Tim, Maybe you were hinting at this also,
KC has far to often in the past drafted better athletes over better football players.
Athleticism is great, but the guys gotta be a football player.
That’s why I say trade D Johnson if they can.
Thank You Bob! As a fan, it’s nice to see the whole thing written out and the stats to back it up. Hopefully Jason Whitlock has seen this and this has changed his perception of Glenn Dorsey.
Agree with you Mark, and CarlM. I dont think anyone is calling Dorsey a bust, but I will call the coaching staff incompetent.
Bob, you proved it yourself when you said, “Dorsey played most of the season lining up head-to-head against a guard. There’s no defensive tackle that’s going to accomplish a lot in that position.”
Why put him in a position he wont likely succeed?
As I showed earlier in the season, the chiefs initially said they wanted Dorsey to play 3-technique and be disruptive. Later on they said that they want him to take on blockers and gap control. Those are 2 seperate (and opposite) things.
Here is incompetence:
moving your starting RDT to DE
playing a rookie 2/3s of the snaps
switching from 3-tech to 2gap control
The problem with the chiefs is they never figured out how to best utilize their front 7. They were moving players around all season long. Incompetence, and that is why nearly the entire D coaching staff is gone or will be gone.
Well said “findthedr”! I think many of us made the observation of the disconnect between what was being said about disruption & penetration vs gap control.
JohnNdallas…yes, you’re right. I was “hinting” at that.
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Nothin much to add to what already was said. Dorsey will get better and become a very good defensive tackle in this league and anyone who doubts that don’t know crap about football.
I wouldn’t call him a bust just yet although who knows if he will live up to his draft status. I will say numbers are deceiving. Getting tackles is great. getting tackles after being knocked four yards off the line of scrimmage not great. Then too you can blowup plays and not even touch the ballcarrier. I think we wanted/want to see him playing the the opponents backfield.
Good point Jody.
Another point to add is that tackle stats are misleading because it is tabulated by each individual team.
Thats how star players like Ray lewis get to pad their tackle stats with ridiculous #s thanks to the baltimore stat guys.
Well if Dorsey didn’t go #5 he was going to go #6 no doubt. Has anyone thought that Herm knew he needed to get a stud DT in the first year of the rebuild, then this season he could add to it, knowing that the first year for the DT would be the hardest. I believe its easier to come out of college and play DE instead of DT in the NFL… So next year with some added talent he should be able to thrive.
We all had better hope Dorsey gets better in 09.
The chiefs cannot afford any more busts if they intend to get better. Do not want to hurt anyone’s feeling but if Dorsey did not fit into the chiefs system, why draft him? If he went 6th maybe he would have been in a system where he fit. How does drafting a kid who does not fit or is not prepared for the NFL make any team better? Building for the future is good if you are a decent team, but the chiefs needed players not just guys with an unknown future.